C-130J: Someone else's take a kicking....
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Jacko why do you rise to the bait?
There are some v.v.v sensitive souls around who it seems just want a pointless shout/rant/dig at anyone daring to hold a differing opinion.
I have been mildly pleased at the educated/considered/thoughtful points that have appeared on these pages lately. It has been refreshing.
Back to the point - the C130J is a fantastic aeroplane populated by fantastic (mostly) people, like every other aeroplane we have.
To take it forward we need a boat-load of cash- we haven't got any.
Speak to the people who are proud of the achievement of bringing an EMPTY a/c home from Cyprus in one hop.
There are some v.v.v sensitive souls around who it seems just want a pointless shout/rant/dig at anyone daring to hold a differing opinion.
I have been mildly pleased at the educated/considered/thoughtful points that have appeared on these pages lately. It has been refreshing.
Back to the point - the C130J is a fantastic aeroplane populated by fantastic (mostly) people, like every other aeroplane we have.
To take it forward we need a boat-load of cash- we haven't got any.
Speak to the people who are proud of the achievement of bringing an EMPTY a/c home from Cyprus in one hop.
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propulike,
"Anyone who can keep the indulgence cars off deserves a medal."
Similar subject was ranted about a few weeks ago on another thread. Please do not bring yourself down to the level of the "shiny people". It is most unbecoming of an Albert driver.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter what trash you haul as long as everyone gets home safe. I'll shut up now.
Regards to all,
E5.
"Anyone who can keep the indulgence cars off deserves a medal."
Similar subject was ranted about a few weeks ago on another thread. Please do not bring yourself down to the level of the "shiny people". It is most unbecoming of an Albert driver.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter what trash you haul as long as everyone gets home safe. I'll shut up now.
Regards to all,
E5.
It was intended as a way of avoiding a 'my aircraft can carry more than your aircraft argument' regarding payloads from LCRA.
Nice to see you spotted that
.
As reassurance, my opinion is that an empty freight bay is a waste of fuel and I always try to keep mine as full as possible on the direct flight back to UK. Better?
Nice to see you spotted that
.As reassurance, my opinion is that an empty freight bay is a waste of fuel and I always try to keep mine as full as possible on the direct flight back to UK. Better?
Thread Starter
C-130J
OK:
The LM spec says the J has the following bits of kit. Which are applicable to the RAF aircraft?
BAE Systems Integrated Defense Solutions (formerly Tracor) AN/ALE-47 countermeasures system with chaff cartridges, infrared flares and POET and GEN-X active expendable decoys.
Lockheed Martin AN/ALR-56M superheterodyne 2-20GHz radar warning receiver with low-band antenna and four high-band quadrant antennae are installed near the nose section below the second window of the cockpit and in the tail cone.
ATK AN/AAR-47 missile warning system with electro-optic sensors below the second cockpit window and in the tail cone.
Lockheed Martin AN/ALQ-157 frequency-agile infrared countermeasures system with infrared transmitter surface mounted at the aft end of the main undercarriage bay fairing.
Northrop Grumman Large Aircraft Infrared Countermeasures (LAIRCM) system - based on the AN/AAQ-24(V) NEMESIS: Selected by the USAF, not on or intended for RAF Js?
The LM spec says the J has the following bits of kit. Which are applicable to the RAF aircraft?
BAE Systems Integrated Defense Solutions (formerly Tracor) AN/ALE-47 countermeasures system with chaff cartridges, infrared flares and POET and GEN-X active expendable decoys.
Lockheed Martin AN/ALR-56M superheterodyne 2-20GHz radar warning receiver with low-band antenna and four high-band quadrant antennae are installed near the nose section below the second window of the cockpit and in the tail cone.
ATK AN/AAR-47 missile warning system with electro-optic sensors below the second cockpit window and in the tail cone.
Lockheed Martin AN/ALQ-157 frequency-agile infrared countermeasures system with infrared transmitter surface mounted at the aft end of the main undercarriage bay fairing.
Northrop Grumman Large Aircraft Infrared Countermeasures (LAIRCM) system - based on the AN/AAQ-24(V) NEMESIS: Selected by the USAF, not on or intended for RAF Js?
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Based on the premis that no bad guys read this forum, the J only goes to benign places and in response to the journo...................................................... ............................................................ ............................................................ .......
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Champagne anyone...?
It's all public domain stuff chaps, we might as well as 'fess up to what we've got. It's only sporting to give whirling dervishes out in the sand half a chance.
At great expense the J has been equipped with the following defensive aids:
Basic Armour
Very thick paint. In places.
Extra thick cushions for the pilots.
Dark sunglasses. Very dark.
IR defences
Loadmaster in para-door flicking matches off edge of matchbox
(certain aircraft have been upgraded with the GE doing similar from the other door)
LIRCM - handheld laser pointer. Requires steady hand. And spare batteries.
Radar countermeasures
Foil meal trays flung from escape hatch. Torn up if we get enough notice.
I think I've said enough
At great expense the J has been equipped with the following defensive aids:
Basic Armour
Very thick paint. In places.
Extra thick cushions for the pilots.
Dark sunglasses. Very dark.
IR defences
Loadmaster in para-door flicking matches off edge of matchbox
(certain aircraft have been upgraded with the GE doing similar from the other door)
LIRCM - handheld laser pointer. Requires steady hand. And spare batteries.
Radar countermeasures
Foil meal trays flung from escape hatch. Torn up if we get enough notice.
I think I've said enough
Thread Starter
Always Broken,
I'll look in Jane's and post the answer, shall I, since it's bound to be public domain? I'd just hoped someone would save me the trouble and give me the answer sooner than that.
Stoppers,
I thought that instead of armour you blokes just ate more pies, surrounding your vital organs with a thicker layer of blubber? That's what they do on 51, I understand.
I'll look in Jane's and post the answer, shall I, since it's bound to be public domain? I'd just hoped someone would save me the trouble and give me the answer sooner than that.
Stoppers,
I thought that instead of armour you blokes just ate more pies, surrounding your vital organs with a thicker layer of blubber? That's what they do on 51, I understand.
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Jacko,
Jane...........Look, post then allow us in the know to giggle
After all if your "sauces" were up to speed why are you on here nosing around
Stoppers is scientifically correct however as we have a microwave and therefore do not use foils our RCM capability is pretty limited............but a down route supermarket shop can solve that problem for a few $$$$
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Jane...........Look, post then allow us in the know to giggle
After all if your "sauces" were up to speed why are you on here nosing around
Stoppers is scientifically correct however as we have a microwave and therefore do not use foils our RCM capability is pretty limited............but a down route supermarket shop can solve that problem for a few $$$$
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Oh dear, here we go again....
.........not the first time we've tried to make Abdul's job easy for him, is it Jacko?
If it IS in the public domain, fine....but let Abdul do the legwork, and let's not inadvertently give away more than we THINK is in the public domain..........
....perhaps the old maxim of never confirming nor denying what may, or may not be fitted to Aunty Betty's aircraft would be appropriate here.
If it IS in the public domain, fine....but let Abdul do the legwork, and let's not inadvertently give away more than we THINK is in the public domain..........
....perhaps the old maxim of never confirming nor denying what may, or may not be fitted to Aunty Betty's aircraft would be appropriate here.
Thread Starter
Always,
Why am I 'nosing around on here'? Well, it's after office hours and I'm lazy. A deadly combination. I suspect that the answers have been in the bleedin RAF Yearbook, but I can't access anything until tomorrow morning, except the 'net.
I can therefore look at the RAF's official 'aircraft factsheets' that tell me:
"RAF Equipment factsheets
The majority of aircraft are fitted with Defensive Infrared Counter Measure equipment, whilst some aircraft used for special tasks have an additional enhanced defensive aids suite comprising a Skyguardian Radar Warning Receiver, a chaff and infrared flare counter measure dispensing system and a missile approach warning system
Hercules J Model - C Mk 4 / Mk 5
A total of 25 C-130 Mk1 and Mk3 aircraft are being replaced by the C-130J on a one-for-one basis. The C-130J has been modified and upgraded to include new propellers and engine control systems to give it increased take-off thrust and fuel efficiency. It also has a revised flight deck with modern glass-cockpit and Head Up Displays, thus allowing two-pilot flight deck operation, and a separate air loadmaster station in the cargo hold. The aircraft is restricted to an AT role pending clearance for wider use in the tactical TS role. The defensive suite includes a missile warning system linked to the directional infrared counter measure system, a radar warning receiver and a chaff or flare countermeasure dispensing system. The defensive system protects the aircraft against surface-to-air and air-to- air infrared seeking threats that may be encountered during operations."
Hmmm, not bad, but no mention of some features.... I know! I'll have a shufti in Hansard....
It's already told me that 12 Js are being fitted with the 'full defensive aids system' (confirming what Squadron Leader Pearce said in Code One in 2004), and back in 2001 it said:
"22 Nov 2001 : Column: 372W
Hercules Aircraft
Mr. Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many air-to-air refuelling probes have been purchased for the C130J; and how many aeroplanes will be operational by 1 January 2002. [15141]
Dr. Moonie: Nineteen air-to-air refuelling probes have been purchased for the C130J fleet. Full operational air-to-air refuelling capability is planned for late 2002. This will be achieved incrementally in accordance with an agreed Flight Clearance programme
Mr. Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what assessment he has made of the Defensive Aids Suite capabilities on the C130K Hercules aircraft; how it compares with the US equivalent; and what plans he has to install it on the C130J.
Dr. Moonie: The capability of the C130K Defensive Aids Suite was assessed as part of the installation development and acceptance programme, based on system requirements arising from detailed threat and countermeasure evaluation. The C130K Defensive Aids Suite will not be fitted to the C130J as Lockheed Martin is currently working to finalise an installation concept for a higher performance defensive system.
The capabilities of systems operated on US aircraft are a matter for the US authorities.
Mr. Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what plans he has to acquire a secure communications system for the C130J. [15224]
Dr. Moonie: The operational advantages of secure communications systems are well recognised and the capability is already fitted to some aircraft and others are due to be fitted. As with any defence equipment capability, decisions have to be made about priorities. A secure communications capability is not currently planned to be fitted to the Hercules C130J aircraft as we have higher operational priorities"
There, that'll help "abdul".....
Why am I 'nosing around on here'? Well, it's after office hours and I'm lazy. A deadly combination. I suspect that the answers have been in the bleedin RAF Yearbook, but I can't access anything until tomorrow morning, except the 'net.
I can therefore look at the RAF's official 'aircraft factsheets' that tell me:
"RAF Equipment factsheets
The majority of aircraft are fitted with Defensive Infrared Counter Measure equipment, whilst some aircraft used for special tasks have an additional enhanced defensive aids suite comprising a Skyguardian Radar Warning Receiver, a chaff and infrared flare counter measure dispensing system and a missile approach warning system
Hercules J Model - C Mk 4 / Mk 5
A total of 25 C-130 Mk1 and Mk3 aircraft are being replaced by the C-130J on a one-for-one basis. The C-130J has been modified and upgraded to include new propellers and engine control systems to give it increased take-off thrust and fuel efficiency. It also has a revised flight deck with modern glass-cockpit and Head Up Displays, thus allowing two-pilot flight deck operation, and a separate air loadmaster station in the cargo hold. The aircraft is restricted to an AT role pending clearance for wider use in the tactical TS role. The defensive suite includes a missile warning system linked to the directional infrared counter measure system, a radar warning receiver and a chaff or flare countermeasure dispensing system. The defensive system protects the aircraft against surface-to-air and air-to- air infrared seeking threats that may be encountered during operations."
Hmmm, not bad, but no mention of some features.... I know! I'll have a shufti in Hansard....
It's already told me that 12 Js are being fitted with the 'full defensive aids system' (confirming what Squadron Leader Pearce said in Code One in 2004), and back in 2001 it said:
"22 Nov 2001 : Column: 372W
Hercules Aircraft
Mr. Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many air-to-air refuelling probes have been purchased for the C130J; and how many aeroplanes will be operational by 1 January 2002. [15141]
Dr. Moonie: Nineteen air-to-air refuelling probes have been purchased for the C130J fleet. Full operational air-to-air refuelling capability is planned for late 2002. This will be achieved incrementally in accordance with an agreed Flight Clearance programme
Mr. Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what assessment he has made of the Defensive Aids Suite capabilities on the C130K Hercules aircraft; how it compares with the US equivalent; and what plans he has to install it on the C130J.
Dr. Moonie: The capability of the C130K Defensive Aids Suite was assessed as part of the installation development and acceptance programme, based on system requirements arising from detailed threat and countermeasure evaluation. The C130K Defensive Aids Suite will not be fitted to the C130J as Lockheed Martin is currently working to finalise an installation concept for a higher performance defensive system.
The capabilities of systems operated on US aircraft are a matter for the US authorities.
Mr. Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what plans he has to acquire a secure communications system for the C130J. [15224]
Dr. Moonie: The operational advantages of secure communications systems are well recognised and the capability is already fitted to some aircraft and others are due to be fitted. As with any defence equipment capability, decisions have to be made about priorities. A secure communications capability is not currently planned to be fitted to the Hercules C130J aircraft as we have higher operational priorities"
There, that'll help "abdul".....
Last edited by Jackonicko; 3rd Nov 2004 at 23:47.
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There you go then..........a little bit of research and you have all the facts to produce a piece of pure "journo genius" worthy of sun/mirror/star front page status..........so why exactly are are you sniffing round in here
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Thread Starter
I was asking a simple question, and trying to tie together the system description originally given with the description in the RAF factsheet, without jumping to conclusions, and before I can check the facts tomorrow. Not muck-raking, not scandal-sniffing, just fact-checking and detail-filling.
And because one wouldn\'t want to venture into certain areas, and because one wouldn\'t want to highlight information that might really (as opposed to in your heated imagination) be of use to a potential enemy, I\'m quite pointedly not asking about the equipment fit on the C3A....
And because one wouldn\'t want to venture into certain areas, and because one wouldn\'t want to highlight information that might really (as opposed to in your heated imagination) be of use to a potential enemy, I\'m quite pointedly not asking about the equipment fit on the C3A....
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Jacko - Why don't you ask the RAF formally for the info. you are asking? Because you know they will probably tell you to piss off, so why do you think anyone here is going to spruke about what kit is on their airframe.
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For you information the Mk3A is fitted with 2x R2D2 droids. In the event of an attack they place them selves between the missile and the airframe. They can also be used to fix external problems such as fuel leeks and hyoperdrive problems. (and play chess on long legs)
It also has two small lazer mounts maned by Ewoks placed on both sides of the aircraft to fight of any fighters who come to close.
I hope this is of help.
It also has two small lazer mounts maned by Ewoks placed on both sides of the aircraft to fight of any fighters who come to close.
I hope this is of help.
MoD Plod could well be directed at anyone attempting to confirm a journo's "It says in Jane's....." queries for 'adding credence' to open source reports.
It was always fun getting some "I can neither confirm nor deny" comments from Spams at airshows. We were once parked near an EF-111A 'SparkVark', so sent a carefully briefed girlie Space Cadet across to talk to the RayBan wearing 'look at me I'm cool' aircrew.....
"Hello, what aeroplane is this"
"(Usual Spam party line)"
"Gosh - that sounds fast. But what is it used for?"
"(Usual Spam bull$hit)"
"Really? And what's the effective radiated power of the I-band emitter compared with isotropic?"
It was always fun getting some "I can neither confirm nor deny" comments from Spams at airshows. We were once parked near an EF-111A 'SparkVark', so sent a carefully briefed girlie Space Cadet across to talk to the RayBan wearing 'look at me I'm cool' aircrew.....
"Hello, what aeroplane is this"
"(Usual Spam party line)"
"Gosh - that sounds fast. But what is it used for?"
"(Usual Spam bull$hit)"
"Really? And what's the effective radiated power of the I-band emitter compared with isotropic?"