Jag incident in Akrotiri
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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Listen, cynical I may be but..
My experience of these things is that he has nothing to worry about long term. Short term? Yes a slap on the wrist and a posting away from all the excitement!!
Long term a promotion, probably to Air Rank at some point and he will end up in charge of a Squadron on the way.
I have known colleagues who have done far, far worse (fatality involved) and gone on to much better things within the RAF after their "Pennance"!!!
My experience of these things is that he has nothing to worry about long term. Short term? Yes a slap on the wrist and a posting away from all the excitement!!
Long term a promotion, probably to Air Rank at some point and he will end up in charge of a Squadron on the way.
I have known colleagues who have done far, far worse (fatality involved) and gone on to much better things within the RAF after their "Pennance"!!!
"...could have been..."
But "wasn't."
FACT: He survived.
FACT: The aircraft survived.
FACT: No-one was hurt.
He, his mates, his squadron, his community and everyone who reads about it in Spry's column will learn valuable lessons from it.
Anyone who claims never to have put themselves in a position where something similar could not have happened to them and or their aircraft is either a liar or someone who requires instant canonisation? Has your lookout always been that sharp? Have you never been a bit over zealous on the break? Pushed the weather mins? I know I have!
Ground him permanently? Report him to the CAA? CM him? Do grow up and get some sense of proportion! I'd rather have a few young hot-heads in the Air Force that my taxes fund who enjoy their flying, have some spirit, who make mistakes and learn from them (gaining cooler heads in the process) than pompous gits who think they're perfect? Isn't complacency and arrogance as big a flight safety danger as poor judgement? It always used to be.
And is this the worst thing to be hit by a Jag wingtip? How about the sheep on the Welsh hillside? OK, that was before some of you were born, but have things really changed so very much? And I'd say that this bloke's mistake was rather less serious than the mistakes made by blokes like Bader.......
But "wasn't."
FACT: He survived.
FACT: The aircraft survived.
FACT: No-one was hurt.
He, his mates, his squadron, his community and everyone who reads about it in Spry's column will learn valuable lessons from it.
Anyone who claims never to have put themselves in a position where something similar could not have happened to them and or their aircraft is either a liar or someone who requires instant canonisation? Has your lookout always been that sharp? Have you never been a bit over zealous on the break? Pushed the weather mins? I know I have!
Ground him permanently? Report him to the CAA? CM him? Do grow up and get some sense of proportion! I'd rather have a few young hot-heads in the Air Force that my taxes fund who enjoy their flying, have some spirit, who make mistakes and learn from them (gaining cooler heads in the process) than pompous gits who think they're perfect? Isn't complacency and arrogance as big a flight safety danger as poor judgement? It always used to be.
And is this the worst thing to be hit by a Jag wingtip? How about the sheep on the Welsh hillside? OK, that was before some of you were born, but have things really changed so very much? And I'd say that this bloke's mistake was rather less serious than the mistakes made by blokes like Bader.......
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Jacko
You're not suggesting, are you, that if this guy did screw up,he should be treated as a naughty boy, ticked off, and let loose straightaway? If found 'guilty', he will probably be CM. These days I don't know what the punishment would be - depends on several factors - nature of the hierarchy and his past record being just two. Whatever, in the modern FJ climate (say 1960 onwards) he should expect severity. All things being 'equal' I'd hope that he will return, at some stage, to FJ flying where he will no doubt deploy his hard-earned wisdom to good effect - as did several of my well-respected contemporaries; most of whom , contrary to opinions on other posts, did not go on to greatness (like many others, I got away with lots of naughty things - but still didn't make greatness).
As for Bader, he was very lucky to survive - and I wouldn't describe his 'accident' as a mistake. Bader and the Jag pilot (if 'guilty') are deemed negligent beyond all reasonable doubt - unlike others that we know of on a different thread.
Let the punishment fit the crime - and in air force terms this has generally been firm and traditional in circumstances such as this. But hey, like others, we're pre-empting things: best let matters be dealt with. That said, all this comment is fair game - it won't influence the outcome one toss.
You're not suggesting, are you, that if this guy did screw up,he should be treated as a naughty boy, ticked off, and let loose straightaway? If found 'guilty', he will probably be CM. These days I don't know what the punishment would be - depends on several factors - nature of the hierarchy and his past record being just two. Whatever, in the modern FJ climate (say 1960 onwards) he should expect severity. All things being 'equal' I'd hope that he will return, at some stage, to FJ flying where he will no doubt deploy his hard-earned wisdom to good effect - as did several of my well-respected contemporaries; most of whom , contrary to opinions on other posts, did not go on to greatness (like many others, I got away with lots of naughty things - but still didn't make greatness).
As for Bader, he was very lucky to survive - and I wouldn't describe his 'accident' as a mistake. Bader and the Jag pilot (if 'guilty') are deemed negligent beyond all reasonable doubt - unlike others that we know of on a different thread.
Let the punishment fit the crime - and in air force terms this has generally been firm and traditional in circumstances such as this. But hey, like others, we're pre-empting things: best let matters be dealt with. That said, all this comment is fair game - it won't influence the outcome one toss.
Grandpa Aerotart
I had the impression from reading various threads on mil that 'spirited low flying' was, if not encouraged, at least tolerated by the powers that be?
'In time of war' we need those skills and all that.
Is the drama caused by the fact he was that low or the fact he hit the pole?
Seems to me that pictures of F4s between the hangars at various parades suggest that his punishment should be more along the lines of a slap on the wrist and stern talking to, perhaps grounded for a month...and then forgotten about!
Not to mention datsun convertables in the desert!!!
IMO it is unreasonable to expect a young hard charger (virtually anyone that makes the cockpit of a FJ must be such) to be a saint as well.
Chuck.
'In time of war' we need those skills and all that.
Is the drama caused by the fact he was that low or the fact he hit the pole?
Seems to me that pictures of F4s between the hangars at various parades suggest that his punishment should be more along the lines of a slap on the wrist and stern talking to, perhaps grounded for a month...and then forgotten about!
Not to mention datsun convertables in the desert!!!
IMO it is unreasonable to expect a young hard charger (virtually anyone that makes the cockpit of a FJ must be such) to be a saint as well.
Chuck.
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I fully agree with FJJP;
The guy knows full well that he has porked it massively and probably won't see a Typhoon cockpit for a long while....
However, we are all human and as such prone to lapses in judgement/good sense. That doesn't make someone a bad person or 'unsafe to fly me or my family'. In fact, as others have pointed out, it will probably make him/her wiser and far more likely to show restraint.
At the end of the day, you employ fast jet pilots to be aggressive and sometimes that can get a little carried away-most of us will testify to that. FJPs aren't blunties, they train to kill people and if that means once in a blue moon we have an incident like this, I'd much prefer that than having an airforce that's full of pansys that can't get amongst them!
The guy knows full well that he has porked it massively and probably won't see a Typhoon cockpit for a long while....
However, we are all human and as such prone to lapses in judgement/good sense. That doesn't make someone a bad person or 'unsafe to fly me or my family'. In fact, as others have pointed out, it will probably make him/her wiser and far more likely to show restraint.
At the end of the day, you employ fast jet pilots to be aggressive and sometimes that can get a little carried away-most of us will testify to that. FJPs aren't blunties, they train to kill people and if that means once in a blue moon we have an incident like this, I'd much prefer that than having an airforce that's full of pansys that can't get amongst them!
Disorientation?
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what's the fuss about......lots of lucky ( they survived ) mud movers can lay claim to antennae clipping, pylon nudging and whip aerial snapping
.....reminds me of a certain Hunter commander who nailed a whip aerial on a ridge near Thumrait.....saw him back in the circuit..." bloody hell...it's a MIG !!! "....( he'd lost the nosecone )...never was much good at a/c recce
sigh......the good old days !
.....reminds me of a certain Hunter commander who nailed a whip aerial on a ridge near Thumrait.....saw him back in the circuit..." bloody hell...it's a MIG !!! "....( he'd lost the nosecone )...never was much good at a/c recce
sigh......the good old days !
