Jag incident in Akrotiri
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The ace clipped the airbase light at 54ft with a wing tip on his Jaguar attack jet while doing 600mph.
Good job it wasn't a Top Gun Ace from 16 Sqn!
(This witty retort would work better if the Sun had not reported that he was from 41 Sqn)
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I agree he should be reprimanded - for flying too high. What a wimp , he should have been at 10 ft. Then instead of clipping the bulb on top of the pole he would have just missed the pole itself (its thinner than the bulb).
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Presenting The Slum with the opportunity to distort, sorry, report any story is risky. However, I'd suggest that there are several better examples: down south, estimated in single figures.
Let's hear it for the exponent of Estuarine English. Perhaps we should suggest that The Slum request a new entry in the OED: insert Top Gun Ace, delete pilot.
Let's hear it for the exponent of Estuarine English. Perhaps we should suggest that The Slum request a new entry in the OED: insert Top Gun Ace, delete pilot.
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MODERATOR!?!?!
Going back to a point made in the top third of the first page! Since when do we have Moderators in this forum!
I remember a while back we had a moderator called FltLt Pprune who was a gestalt entity comprising wise old salts who ensured that we, in our drunken posting, didn't give away information to the bad guys during Gulf II. (which is all very sensible and may they rest happily on their laurels in the knowledge of a job well done!)
That said,
Since when do we need a moderator when we are not engaged in that kind of thing, at least not at a level which attracts public and press interest!
Surely we do a pretty good job of moderating ourselves! Stand fast my grammar obviously!
I remember a while back we had a moderator called FltLt Pprune who was a gestalt entity comprising wise old salts who ensured that we, in our drunken posting, didn't give away information to the bad guys during Gulf II. (which is all very sensible and may they rest happily on their laurels in the knowledge of a job well done!)
That said,
Since when do we need a moderator when we are not engaged in that kind of thing, at least not at a level which attracts public and press interest!
Surely we do a pretty good job of moderating ourselves! Stand fast my grammar obviously!
Yes, this is a rumour forum, but if ever there was an example of the danger of a careless post, this (or, at least, the original) is it.
Chris Kebab - Stormshadow2 is a confirmed journo by my book - maybe even the Slum.
Al Ferets Toe - well done for pulling the plug. The Slum story could just as easily have come from a call to their 'incitement' hotline but I think my original point has, unfortunately, been borne out.
Chris Kebab - Stormshadow2 is a confirmed journo by my book - maybe even the Slum.
Al Ferets Toe - well done for pulling the plug. The Slum story could just as easily have come from a call to their 'incitement' hotline but I think my original point has, unfortunately, been borne out.
I don't think he is, y'know.
It's not a good example of where censorship or self censorship is needed.
If revealing something might cost lives, or if it might help an enemy defend himself, then there's a case for being cautious. When information is embarrassing, politically embarassing or might damage careers, it should be fair game.
Moreover, by discussing this incident in detail here, it soon becomes clear to the less well informed observer that:
a) It's unfortunate, but no big deal.
b) It indicates a momentary lapse of judgement, but is no big deal.
It's not a good example of where censorship or self censorship is needed.
If revealing something might cost lives, or if it might help an enemy defend himself, then there's a case for being cautious. When information is embarrassing, politically embarassing or might damage careers, it should be fair game.
Moreover, by discussing this incident in detail here, it soon becomes clear to the less well informed observer that:
a) It's unfortunate, but no big deal.
b) It indicates a momentary lapse of judgement, but is no big deal.
There, there, Leprechaun ... time to take a small chill pill perhaps? 
If you'll re-read this thread, you'll see that the original thread disappeared due to actions by the original poster, not by any moderator. My first post on this thread was to reassure contributors (such as Jackonicko) that there had been no admin action taken on that thread.
On the subject of moderation ... ok, I'll take the bait --
I'll improve on your statement, Leprechaun, and say that most of the time, the contributors to the Military Forum do an excellent job of self-moderation, (not just "good"), which is why there is no dedicated moderator. However, having said that, there are times (very rare) when administrative action is warranted. We only take action if absolutely necessary, and we do our best to be completely straightforward about it. So no conspiracy theories, ok? (And that applies to you too Jacko
)
-- -- -- --
Back to the subject now ..... I've got friends & acquaintances in 41 Sqn; I'm just glad he's ok -- the outcome could have been much worse.
If you'll re-read this thread, you'll see that the original thread disappeared due to actions by the original poster, not by any moderator. My first post on this thread was to reassure contributors (such as Jackonicko) that there had been no admin action taken on that thread.
On the subject of moderation ... ok, I'll take the bait --
I'll improve on your statement, Leprechaun, and say that most of the time, the contributors to the Military Forum do an excellent job of self-moderation, (not just "good"), which is why there is no dedicated moderator. However, having said that, there are times (very rare) when administrative action is warranted. We only take action if absolutely necessary, and we do our best to be completely straightforward about it. So no conspiracy theories, ok? (And that applies to you too Jacko
)-- -- -- --
Back to the subject now ..... I've got friends & acquaintances in 41 Sqn; I'm just glad he's ok -- the outcome could have been much worse.
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Agree with McD. Broke between the Akrotiri lighting stanchions and survived with only dented ego and embarassment (SEVERE bolly) - didn't even have time to get the LSJ off. Looking at the poles afterwards you realise that any contact is going to spoil your day and perhaps one should learn from the momentary lack of judgement (experience).
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Saw the Jag in the hangar the other day, also saw the investigators mooching around the lighting stand; its on the edge of the pan where the APC park their aircraft. The a/c had only lost the tip of the left wing, looked like it had been cut with a hacksaw. If he had done a break he would have been breaking over the top of the buildings which I don't believe he was doing. I know a few people who saw and heard the aircraft as they did their fly past there initial reaction was ' what the **** are they doing that low' Any further left and this could have been a very serious accident not only for the pilot but also people on the ground. This is only my opinion of what I saw and heard.
PS. The stand had a camera on it too
PS. The stand had a camera on it too
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What if this was you???
Okay Guys, this one's obviously reached a point where people are still intent on repeating/embellishing rumour and hearsay, but Captain Kirk's recent words on this very thread have appeared to fall on deaf ears. Imagine that it was you who had had an unfortunate incident which people then insisted on commenting upon. Come the Sun reporter loosely disguised as a GR4 hero of the recent fracas, reads the comments and puts the (original) thread almost word for word on a full page spread in his newspaper. Whether you are to blame or not for your accident, Sun readers want to read of military people getting shafted.
In putting these comments on threads like this, you are quite literally risking a guy's career (the famous "Harrier Pilots on Tour" etc etc.) I'm not saying don't put these kind of things on here (it is a RUmour NEtwork after all) but please take some time to think of your post's possible implications before pressing that button.
Sorry to sound like the Fun Police, but I think this thread proves an age-old, but never learnt PPRuNe lesson of being very careful what you post here.
Thanks chaps!
In putting these comments on threads like this, you are quite literally risking a guy's career (the famous "Harrier Pilots on Tour" etc etc.) I'm not saying don't put these kind of things on here (it is a RUmour NEtwork after all) but please take some time to think of your post's possible implications before pressing that button.
Sorry to sound like the Fun Police, but I think this thread proves an age-old, but never learnt PPRuNe lesson of being very careful what you post here.
Thanks chaps!
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Anyone see 'Top Gear' last night?
Clarkson showed the article from The Sun, explained the MOD had threatened to take the pilot's wings off him as a result of the incident, and then offered the pilot a job as a presenter on the show if this happens!
Might be a very useful offer if some of the current rumours on this one are to be believed. I wonder if their airships are aware of this?
Whatever happens, he's got some fans waiting
Clarkson showed the article from The Sun, explained the MOD had threatened to take the pilot's wings off him as a result of the incident, and then offered the pilot a job as a presenter on the show if this happens!
Might be a very useful offer if some of the current rumours on this one are to be believed. I wonder if their airships are aware of this?
Whatever happens, he's got some fans waiting
Not too many fans here!
FACT: Light Stanchion (not street lamp) on G dispersal chopped off at 54' agl
FACT: Hit by a low flying Jaguar
Opinion (Mine) The cause of this incident SHOULD have his career ended, and I don't mean posted to a ground tour, I mean CM and thrown out AND reported to the CAA to prevent him getting ANY job in aviation. I have also heard that the guy who actually hit the tower may not have been totally to blame but was a wing man in a box 4 led by one of his Sqn "Mates" Sorry if it sounds harsh but when I am flying close formation I like to be able to trust my leader not to endanger my life as well as his and the many people on the ground in the buildings around G dispersal. I am sure there will be a thorough investigation by the appropriate authorities, the Sun and Top Gear comments will have no bearing on the out come at all.
If it turns out that he had some dire emergency and was manfully wrestling with the controls to avoid certain disaster and unfortunately clipped a tower below any RAF fixed wing MSD then give him a medal. If it turns out it was a blatent disregarding of his and anyone elses safety (let alone the many regulations covering low flying, flypasts and formation) then hang him without sympathy. All only speculation at this stage obviously.
FACT: Light Stanchion (not street lamp) on G dispersal chopped off at 54' agl
FACT: Hit by a low flying Jaguar
Opinion (Mine) The cause of this incident SHOULD have his career ended, and I don't mean posted to a ground tour, I mean CM and thrown out AND reported to the CAA to prevent him getting ANY job in aviation. I have also heard that the guy who actually hit the tower may not have been totally to blame but was a wing man in a box 4 led by one of his Sqn "Mates" Sorry if it sounds harsh but when I am flying close formation I like to be able to trust my leader not to endanger my life as well as his and the many people on the ground in the buildings around G dispersal. I am sure there will be a thorough investigation by the appropriate authorities, the Sun and Top Gear comments will have no bearing on the out come at all.
If it turns out that he had some dire emergency and was manfully wrestling with the controls to avoid certain disaster and unfortunately clipped a tower below any RAF fixed wing MSD then give him a medal. If it turns out it was a blatent disregarding of his and anyone elses safety (let alone the many regulations covering low flying, flypasts and formation) then hang him without sympathy. All only speculation at this stage obviously.
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I'll bet that there is nothing that can be said by ANYBODY on this forum or any other forum that can make this guy feel any worse than he really feels right now. He is facing the full disciplinary wrath of everybody from CAS downwards, and will be very aware that his normal (fast track, single seat) career path is severely set back, if not destroyed.
He knows he crapped out big time, and is probably breathing a sigh of relief that a) the aircraft is in one piece and not desperately damaged and b) that no-one got killed or hurt.
He knows he probably faces a court martial and no flying for some considerable time.
Tell me what can be worse for a young, single seat, fast jet, fighter pilot?
I don't condone bad flying discipline, high spirits, or whatever you else you want to call it. However, to don the black cap and totally stop this individual ever flying again is an over-reaction to a gross degree.
Mach, I would like to know that you have NEVER broken a flying rule or regulation EVER in your career...
And, by the way, formally informing the CAA may well be against the law.
Let's calm down and let the system deal with this without us exacerbating the situation.
He knows he crapped out big time, and is probably breathing a sigh of relief that a) the aircraft is in one piece and not desperately damaged and b) that no-one got killed or hurt.
He knows he probably faces a court martial and no flying for some considerable time.
Tell me what can be worse for a young, single seat, fast jet, fighter pilot?
I don't condone bad flying discipline, high spirits, or whatever you else you want to call it. However, to don the black cap and totally stop this individual ever flying again is an over-reaction to a gross degree.
Mach, I would like to know that you have NEVER broken a flying rule or regulation EVER in your career...
And, by the way, formally informing the CAA may well be against the law.
Let's calm down and let the system deal with this without us exacerbating the situation.
FJJP, I cannot confirm that I have never broken a flying rule or regulation ever in my career, there are so many these days. I can, however, confirm that I have never done a 50' flypast of G dispersal (or I prepared it properly and knew where the obstructions were, you decide). Only my opinion, which incidentaly the board won't be interested in either, but I don't want my family or me to fly with someone who does a 50' flypast without preparing it safely! if there is such a thing.
Reichman, I too hope I never have to serve on a board or a jury.
Reichman, I too hope I never have to serve on a board or a jury.
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Mach, but then the young and foolish grow up eventually to lead the next generation of the young and foolish, who impart the wisdom of not breaking the rules, etc. And so the world comes full circle. By the time the Jag mate ever gets near a bona self loading freight machine, I wouldn't mind betting he would be one of the most reliable and safest drivers on the fleet..