Our Boats in Iran
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Our Boats in Iran
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story...251575,00.html
Although I don't routinely read the Guardian - this article troubles me. I also don't like to speculate, but, perhaps, if we don't go asking for the boats back we could save a few bob out of the treasury?
Although I don't routinely read the Guardian - this article troubles me. I also don't like to speculate, but, perhaps, if we don't go asking for the boats back we could save a few bob out of the treasury?
if we don't go asking for the boats back we could save a few bob out of the treasury?
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If they had been in the right place instead of lost they would not have had the unfortunate problems they experianced 
However as the Navy have a recent history of boats not being where they should be is it a real surprise
all spellimg mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
However as the Navy have a recent history of boats not being where they should be is it a real surprise
all spellimg mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Good old ABIW....
....shooting from the lip, as usual.
Mate, why don't you f*ck off and start an amoeba breeding farm or something similarly more useful......
you could even enrol on a spelling and life-skills course before you go.....christ knows you need it. Tw@t!
Mate, why don't you f*ck off and start an amoeba breeding farm or something similarly more useful......
you could even enrol on a spelling and life-skills course before you go.....christ knows you need it. Tw@t!
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ABIW, I wouldn't be too hard on the matelots as 6 of the 8 personnel were Marines. This whole incident became something of a microcosm of recent RM history; first they get lost (anyone remember the amphibious landing exercise in Gibraltar when they actually stormed ashore to be met by two bemused Spanish policemen? Only a few miles out chaps) followed by instant surrender (Falklands?).
So we now have a RM produced pamphlet entitled "The waterways of the Persian Gulf and how to enjoy them", to go with the "Coastal map of Gibraltar" (unused) and "RM Tactics aide memoire" (relevant passage being "Reaction to effective enemy fire: lay weapon carefully on the ground, stand up and raise arms above the head).
Now if THAT doesn't create some interesting feedback......
So we now have a RM produced pamphlet entitled "The waterways of the Persian Gulf and how to enjoy them", to go with the "Coastal map of Gibraltar" (unused) and "RM Tactics aide memoire" (relevant passage being "Reaction to effective enemy fire: lay weapon carefully on the ground, stand up and raise arms above the head).
Now if THAT doesn't create some interesting feedback......
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You've got your first bite, Nearly Free. And much as I hate to take the bait, I must defend the Marines of the naval party who were left to try to hold East Falkland against a force many times their number in 1982.
There were just 64 of them and their heaviest weapon was a Carl Gustav.
Despite this, the Booties fought a steady rearguard action which ended only when they were surrounded and pinned down in and around Government House in Stanley. The building was riddled with incoming and it was pure, blind chance that most of the defenders did not become casualties. They did, however, inflict a number of Argentinian casualties during the action, including knocking out at least one LVPT at close range.
Major Mike Norman, the detachment commander, only agreed to surrender on the instructions of Rex Hunt, the Falkland Islands governor, in a conversation which took place on hands and knees beacuse everything above that level was being subjected to mg, rifle and 20mm cannon fire.
I was privileged to witness the same naval party raise the Union flag over Government House on the recapture of the islands.
There were just 64 of them and their heaviest weapon was a Carl Gustav.
Despite this, the Booties fought a steady rearguard action which ended only when they were surrounded and pinned down in and around Government House in Stanley. The building was riddled with incoming and it was pure, blind chance that most of the defenders did not become casualties. They did, however, inflict a number of Argentinian casualties during the action, including knocking out at least one LVPT at close range.
Major Mike Norman, the detachment commander, only agreed to surrender on the instructions of Rex Hunt, the Falkland Islands governor, in a conversation which took place on hands and knees beacuse everything above that level was being subjected to mg, rifle and 20mm cannon fire.
I was privileged to witness the same naval party raise the Union flag over Government House on the recapture of the islands.
Suspicion breeds confidence
Well said outlaw51!
I do not subscribe to the getting "lost" theory. Iran has taken a political drubbing of late and this has been an easy way of taking some retaliation on a soft target.
The RN is not in the habit of letting foreign powers sieze their vessels and have them get away with it. I would like to see the screw turned very tighly on Iran.
Now expecting Pr00ne to pop up with one of his rambling nonsensical arguments.
I do not subscribe to the getting "lost" theory. Iran has taken a political drubbing of late and this has been an easy way of taking some retaliation on a soft target.
The RN is not in the habit of letting foreign powers sieze their vessels and have them get away with it. I would like to see the screw turned very tighly on Iran.
Now expecting Pr00ne to pop up with one of his rambling nonsensical arguments.
Last edited by Navaleye; 2nd Jul 2004 at 09:03.
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Re Iran, one report stated that the river was 1 mile wide at that point, that the border went up the middle and that the Iranians had stated that the boats were 1/2 mile into Iranian waters. That puts the Marines sunning themselves on the Iranian beach by my reckoning.
Re parading the captives blindfolded on TV, we should have known that this would happen as soon as the Coalition forces released video of Saddam having his mouth and beard examined by American medics. The Gulf states tend to regard a humiliation on one of them as an insult to them all - especially when Americans are involved.
Re parading the captives blindfolded on TV, we should have known that this would happen as soon as the Coalition forces released video of Saddam having his mouth and beard examined by American medics. The Gulf states tend to regard a humiliation on one of them as an insult to them all - especially when Americans are involved.
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The Iranians had been looking for leverage with UK/USA since GW2 commenced, and the RN/RM patrol boats presented the perfect opportunity.
The guys were in the right place at the wrong time.
BuffHoon is a daft ****, though:
"Our assessment continues and will be greatly assisted by the retrieval of navigational information in the Global Positioning System equipment carried by the crews."
Does he really imagine that the Iranians won't have wiped the GPS units clean inside before returning them?
The guys were in the right place at the wrong time.
BuffHoon is a daft ****, though:
"Our assessment continues and will be greatly assisted by the retrieval of navigational information in the Global Positioning System equipment carried by the crews."
Does he really imagine that the Iranians won't have wiped the GPS units clean inside before returning them?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
The RN is not in the habit of letting foreign powers sieze their vessels and have them get away with it. I would like to see the screw turned very tighly on Iran.
I remember them getting away with it lightly!
"But in a written Commons statement, Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon said: "In a recent debriefing the crews have said that they were operating inside the Iraqi border and were forcibly escorted into Iranian territorial waters.....
Mr Hoon also disclosed that the Iranians have failed to comply with Tuesday's deadline set for the return of the British equipment, including three boats, weapons, ammunition, radios and navigational equipment."
Looking at the map of the area, maybe a simple missed turning is all it's about......maybe
'Forcibly escorted' what does that exactly mean? Wot no fight!! Hardly in tradition.
Another deadline past. Why do these people make deadlines, which are a threat of action, and never do anything about the passing thereof?
Oh, nice of the Naval spokesman to say that when they eventually get the GPS back, they will be able to verify the positions.
2 things;
1. If I was the 'opposition' who had the GPS now, I think I might start thinking of dumping all the GPS memory.
2. If the GPS showed the boats were in the wrong place, would they come clean?
As UB40 said, "Food for Thought"
Suspicion breeds confidence
It depends of course on what RoE were in force at the time. They only had small arms. A cannon armed fpb would be more than a match for lightly armed troops in an open boat.
Maybe we should have a TOW armed Lynx patrolling the area in addition. That would make them think twice
Maybe we should have a TOW armed Lynx patrolling the area in addition. That would make them think twice
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Maybe we should have a TOW armed Lynx patrolling the area in addition. That would make them think twice
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I read somewhere that, although the border between Iran and Iraq was established as the deepest (middle) point, Iran then calimed the entire waterway up to the Iraqi beach following the Iran/Iraq war. So any boat in the water is in Iranian territory - accoriding to the Iranians. It may just be that they are trying to reinforce their claim.
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I expect the boats won't be returned. But if Buff's threat of 'very bad things' or similar, occuring if they are not then we could be in a very interesting situation. My, subtle, point about saving a few bob was directed at our not investing in fetching them back ourselves. I doubt that we could - I expect we would be soundly thrashed and sent away if we turned-up demanding their return. Iran has, allegedly, the following:
F-4s - 65, F-5s - 60, F-14s - 25, F-6s 16, F-7s- 24, MiG-29s - 25
Su-22s - 40, Su-25s - 7, Su-24s - 30, Mirage F-1s - 24 MiG-23s - 12 and 320 combat helicopters.
Add around 1600 MBTs and around 520 000 personnel in their forces.
We, on the other hand, have, probably, the following:
Harrier - 42, Jags - 36, Tornado GR - 70, F3 - 60, Eurofighter Geoffhoon - a couple, and some support helos.
Add around 250 MBTs and 304 000 personnel in our forces.
NOW I can see reasons for a defense review.
All the above from 10 minutes surfing with google.
F-4s - 65, F-5s - 60, F-14s - 25, F-6s 16, F-7s- 24, MiG-29s - 25
Su-22s - 40, Su-25s - 7, Su-24s - 30, Mirage F-1s - 24 MiG-23s - 12 and 320 combat helicopters.
Add around 1600 MBTs and around 520 000 personnel in their forces.
We, on the other hand, have, probably, the following:
Harrier - 42, Jags - 36, Tornado GR - 70, F3 - 60, Eurofighter Geoffhoon - a couple, and some support helos.
Add around 250 MBTs and 304 000 personnel in our forces.
NOW I can see reasons for a defense review.
All the above from 10 minutes surfing with google.