nimrod mr4 first flight date
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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nan me old,
Sorry but by your own admission PA01 isn't an MRA4!!
It's a bit like saying that an E3D without all its mission kit and crew is an AWACS!! No Sir, it is only a Boeing 720 with a mushroom on top.
The Nimrod MRA4 is PA01, plus mission kit plus crew!! And that I again predict will NEVER fly!! (Rider.. in operational service!!)
That all said, I have to congratulate the individuals concerned both service and civilian who have worked damned hard to get this airborne. Well done, although my own thoughts are that along with Eurofighter 2010 this country no longer has a requirement for the MRA's of any model.
Still it has been a sterling achievement and I wont take that away from them.
But to leave on a negative point these ARE 2nd hand aircraft with thousands of hours on them and quite aside from the lack of a flight engineer for 250ft work...
Do we really need them?? Go on convince me whilst I am in a good mood!!
Sorry but by your own admission PA01 isn't an MRA4!!
It's a bit like saying that an E3D without all its mission kit and crew is an AWACS!! No Sir, it is only a Boeing 720 with a mushroom on top.
The Nimrod MRA4 is PA01, plus mission kit plus crew!! And that I again predict will NEVER fly!! (Rider.. in operational service!!)
That all said, I have to congratulate the individuals concerned both service and civilian who have worked damned hard to get this airborne. Well done, although my own thoughts are that along with Eurofighter 2010 this country no longer has a requirement for the MRA's of any model.
Still it has been a sterling achievement and I wont take that away from them.
But to leave on a negative point these ARE 2nd hand aircraft with thousands of hours on them and quite aside from the lack of a flight engineer for 250ft work...
Do we really need them?? Go on convince me whilst I am in a good mood!!
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I amagine the standard databus may come in handy, as well as those extra hard points... but as a maritime recon aircraft.... never. Personally, I would imagine the MR4 will be an excellent standoff launch platform or aircraft supporting land ops (fast, good loiter in flight refuel etc), but I could never see any maritime role re-emerging.... You just have to look across NATO procurement to twig that one, with numerous NATO countries slashing any maritime support contingent.
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The Gorilla,
A successful flight test programme is a long way off yet, but a major hurdle has been overcome.
Virtually the only bit that remains of the original is the outer skin of the fuselage and I understand that was in good condition.
Your reservations about an Air Eng might be very valid, however I will be surprised to see this a/c having to descend to an operational height of 250ft, for the likes of photography, fishery protection etc. With an integrated and working EOSDS there should be little need to go down that low.
If data fusion is successful in an operational environment this will be an excellent Multi Mission aircraft.
A successful flight test programme is a long way off yet, but a major hurdle has been overcome.
Virtually the only bit that remains of the original is the outer skin of the fuselage and I understand that was in good condition.
Your reservations about an Air Eng might be very valid, however I will be surprised to see this a/c having to descend to an operational height of 250ft, for the likes of photography, fishery protection etc. With an integrated and working EOSDS there should be little need to go down that low.
If data fusion is successful in an operational environment this will be an excellent Multi Mission aircraft.
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Small Spinner,
Although there may be EO on board that will help in the fishery protection etc side of the Nimrod role. There will always be the Search and Rescue side where for accuracy the lower the better. Also for operations where the cloud base prevents work from the upper/ middle air.
I think also that the aircraft should be re-named to the Nimrod MMA. This will reflect the fact that this will be a true multi-role aircraft in the same way as the current incumbent is becoming.
FJ
Although there may be EO on board that will help in the fishery protection etc side of the Nimrod role. There will always be the Search and Rescue side where for accuracy the lower the better. Also for operations where the cloud base prevents work from the upper/ middle air.
I think also that the aircraft should be re-named to the Nimrod MMA. This will reflect the fact that this will be a true multi-role aircraft in the same way as the current incumbent is becoming.
FJ
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Small Spinner - Good spot mate!
The Nimrod has always been the only true multi role combat aircraft in the RAF inventory.
Anyone remember the original MRCA ? - Tornado! - what a joke
NiMROD - One fuel load, One cew, One set of rations and for 8 hours - (12 0n the MRA4) plus refuel for extended SAR etc. can do at least 6 mission changes whislt airborne without whingeing.
Love many - trust a few - always paddle you own canoe
The Nimrod has always been the only true multi role combat aircraft in the RAF inventory.
Anyone remember the original MRCA ? - Tornado! - what a joke
NiMROD - One fuel load, One cew, One set of rations and for 8 hours - (12 0n the MRA4) plus refuel for extended SAR etc. can do at least 6 mission changes whislt airborne without whingeing.
Love many - trust a few - always paddle you own canoe
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FJ
You're right about the accuracy of SAR drops, but if the EOSDS works as advertised, and apart from v.low cloud base, the necessity to go down that low will be much reduced.
I just get the feeling that this aircraft is going to become a real star, especially with the lords and masters.
You're right about the accuracy of SAR drops, but if the EOSDS works as advertised, and apart from v.low cloud base, the necessity to go down that low will be much reduced.
I just get the feeling that this aircraft is going to become a real star, especially with the lords and masters.
Suspicion breeds confidence
I think its very unlikely that the MRA4 will now be axed and much to The Gorilla's eternal shame it will fly in Sqn service.. The MoD has talked about a "reduced threat" from submarines - true (but still a threat), but the old bus has lots of very useful roles in this net centric warfare game the MoD has been wittering on about. No chance of getting 16 IMHO.
According to BAE's press release, PA1 is a test and development aircraft not a product model.
-- Under a contract awarded in December 1996, and amended in 2002, BAE Systems was contracted to build an 18-strong fleet of Nimrod MRA4 aircraft, the Royal Air Force’s new Maritime, Reconnaissance and Attack aircraft. The contract was subject to further renegotiation in 2003, separating out the design and development phase (3 aircraft) from an option for production (15 aircraft). More recently, on 21 July 2004, the Secretary of State for Defence talked about the nation's maritime reconnaissance requirement being met in future by a fleet of 'around 12' Nimrod MRA4 aircraft..
According to BAE's press release, PA1 is a test and development aircraft not a product model.
-- Under a contract awarded in December 1996, and amended in 2002, BAE Systems was contracted to build an 18-strong fleet of Nimrod MRA4 aircraft, the Royal Air Force’s new Maritime, Reconnaissance and Attack aircraft. The contract was subject to further renegotiation in 2003, separating out the design and development phase (3 aircraft) from an option for production (15 aircraft). More recently, on 21 July 2004, the Secretary of State for Defence talked about the nation's maritime reconnaissance requirement being met in future by a fleet of 'around 12' Nimrod MRA4 aircraft..
Last edited by Navaleye; 1st Sep 2004 at 11:39.
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Firstly Mighty Hunter you always been dumb
Secondly if MPA are all about fisheries and dare I say it ASW, (read USW, UBM or new NCW mumbo jumbo) why have I been without beer for so long - I am even more cranky than usual
For the mad monkey and all the other up to date folks get up with the times - no no sit in your crewrooms and train cabins and spout
Damn it you got me at it now
I need a beer
Charlie sends
Secondly if MPA are all about fisheries and dare I say it ASW, (read USW, UBM or new NCW mumbo jumbo) why have I been without beer for so long - I am even more cranky than usual
For the mad monkey and all the other up to date folks get up with the times - no no sit in your crewrooms and train cabins and spout
Damn it you got me at it now
I need a beer
Charlie sends
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Charlie - I've tried never to say this (always left it to the parrot behind my right shoulder) "I concur", when the monkey and mbga9pgf understand what the current version does then I may take some notice of their prophecies.
"lack of a flight engineer for 250ft work"
"country no longer has a requirement for the MRA's of any model" - better bring the boys back from the Gulf then
"but as a maritime recon aircraft.... never" - pretty strong words
"but I could never see any maritime role re-emerging.... You just have to look across NATO procurement to twig that one, with numerous NATO countries slashing any maritime support contingent." - USA MMA? Australia - recent upgrade, Japan 100+ P3s to replace, even the Kiwis have just approved an upgrade, there is obviously some Global need for the Maritime role
"fishery protection etc side of the Nimrod role" - not in the last decade
FJ- why not name it Nimrod Multi Role Aircraft 4, MRA4 for short so we can get rid of all those frebbies from BAe still at airshows.
Charlie - there's a Speights on ice if you can make Fincastle.
"lack of a flight engineer for 250ft work"
"country no longer has a requirement for the MRA's of any model" - better bring the boys back from the Gulf then
"but as a maritime recon aircraft.... never" - pretty strong words
"but I could never see any maritime role re-emerging.... You just have to look across NATO procurement to twig that one, with numerous NATO countries slashing any maritime support contingent." - USA MMA? Australia - recent upgrade, Japan 100+ P3s to replace, even the Kiwis have just approved an upgrade, there is obviously some Global need for the Maritime role
"fishery protection etc side of the Nimrod role" - not in the last decade
FJ- why not name it Nimrod Multi Role Aircraft 4, MRA4 for short so we can get rid of all those frebbies from BAe still at airshows.
Charlie - there's a Speights on ice if you can make Fincastle.
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Hello all just a couple of questions I was wondering about. The first aircraft PA01 will undergo to my knowledge various stages of testing of avionics, flight systems etc etc. Will subsequent aircraft (if there are any obviously) be subject to the same testing or will they undergo a 'lesser' check i.e. to see if the aircraft works as I presume the systems and kit onboard will already be up and running and tested on prior aircraft?
Apologises if any of this has been covered before!
ppf
Apologises if any of this has been covered before!
ppf
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ppf
Apart from certain essential handling tests to prove that PA2 and PA3 behave the same as PA1, the a/c will be assumed to have the same envelope clearances as PA1.
As a result these mission systems a/c can go straight in to the multitude of avionics tests required to demonstrate the aircraft's capability.
Once the customer is satisfied with the level of maturity, they will then make the decision to carry on with the production order.
Apart from certain essential handling tests to prove that PA2 and PA3 behave the same as PA1, the a/c will be assumed to have the same envelope clearances as PA1.
As a result these mission systems a/c can go straight in to the multitude of avionics tests required to demonstrate the aircraft's capability.
Once the customer is satisfied with the level of maturity, they will then make the decision to carry on with the production order.
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Cheers much Small Spinner that’s cleared up a few things for me, I had visions of each aircraft having to go through all the tests, though that might take years!! But then again why not wait a few more years then it’s already a bit behind schedule!!
ppf
ppf
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Anyone remember the original MRCA ? - Tornado! - what a joke
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At the mo the Mr2 is no more than a glorified uav.
Mra4 offers little and makes a only good, slow rcs target instead.
While it flies it will be no more than a sitting duck.
Hand the programme to the Navy and see how long it lasts......
Onion rings with that order Sir?
Mra4 offers little and makes a only good, slow rcs target instead.
While it flies it will be no more than a sitting duck.
Hand the programme to the Navy and see how long it lasts......
Onion rings with that order Sir?
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You obviously have no idea of the amount of work that the Nimrod Fleet actually does ALL THE TIME. No other aircraft type in the RAF consistantly carries out operations (other than SH etc) from its home base and from all over the world. You are living in a dream world if you think that all the MR2 is "is a glorified UAV". All I can say is that when the MR4 comes into service it will offer greater flexibilty and sensors that will create a first class platform. At present the MR2 is in demand from all the services, because of its great flexibility, and it does those jobs even though the airframe is 40+ years old!
Get a grip man.
Get a grip man.
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"You are living in a dream world if you think that all the MR2 is "is a glorified UAV".
MMMM so WHAT is the ONLY true operational role its doing?
As for the rest of your comments,
The cold war is OVER.
The rod is a wonderful beast but then again , so was tsr2.
Time to stop living in the past, AEW3 failed and they chopped up far more airframes to get that working.....
Long live the "mighty" merlin.....
I bow to your superior use of punctuation.
MMMM so WHAT is the ONLY true operational role its doing?
As for the rest of your comments,
The cold war is OVER.
The rod is a wonderful beast but then again , so was tsr2.
Time to stop living in the past, AEW3 failed and they chopped up far more airframes to get that working.....
Long live the "mighty" merlin.....
I bow to your superior use of punctuation.
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Small Spinner - spot on
GORILLA - most aircraft have a design life of about 48k hours - albeit at high level - Nimrod had a 'dogs life' factor built in to operate at low level with lots of turning and burning. Where the spec was 6mm they made it 8mm and so on. The frames being converted had on average 16k hours and were thoroughly NDT'd and computer recorded. I spoke to the project manager in the early days after a 'warts and all' presentation at Poole, and he concluded that if the MRA4 did not materialise, the lads at ISK could rest assured, that flying the exsisting Mk2 is well safe - with it's initial build and subsequent maintainence, in his words, it's " a brick sh*t house"
Military jet noise - the sound of freedom!
GORILLA - most aircraft have a design life of about 48k hours - albeit at high level - Nimrod had a 'dogs life' factor built in to operate at low level with lots of turning and burning. Where the spec was 6mm they made it 8mm and so on. The frames being converted had on average 16k hours and were thoroughly NDT'd and computer recorded. I spoke to the project manager in the early days after a 'warts and all' presentation at Poole, and he concluded that if the MRA4 did not materialise, the lads at ISK could rest assured, that flying the exsisting Mk2 is well safe - with it's initial build and subsequent maintainence, in his words, it's " a brick sh*t house"
Military jet noise - the sound of freedom!
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Now the GORILLA.
I thought that seeing the new Mighty Hunter leaping into the air after so long was going to be the high point of my sad, lonely life. I was wrong.
Reading your recent posts, and realising that you are now the MRA4's biggest fan has now become the high point of my life !!!!
Also, Souness seems to be making a reasonable fist of it over on the Tyne ?
Cheers
DS
I thought that seeing the new Mighty Hunter leaping into the air after so long was going to be the high point of my sad, lonely life. I was wrong.
Reading your recent posts, and realising that you are now the MRA4's biggest fan has now become the high point of my life !!!!
Also, Souness seems to be making a reasonable fist of it over on the Tyne ?
Cheers
DS