Trappers - Blessing Or Curse?
Nixor ut Ledo
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Trappers - Blessing Or Curse?
So there you are - finally. Done the hard yards. IOT, FT, AFT, OCU, worked up on the sqn and now 'Operational'. Life is sweet. Play with Aunty Betty's expensive kit to your heart's content (well, fuel/hours restrictions notwithstanding). Then......
Along comes the 'trapper'
Is it a blessing that everybody sings from the same hymn sheet, or a curse that life hereon is going to be one stressed check ride after another?
Back in the last century when the V force was still at the pointy end I remember an incident with a 1 GSU check ride on the Nav Plotter. The plotter was obviously quite reasonable so the trapper threw in more and more limited aids stuff. It got to the point when the Radar (not being checked), trying very hard for a decent bomb run, eventually switched all the kit off, threw his pencil box on the bench and declared, "Well, if you're going to **** me around that much I'm not playing" - or words to that effect. Oh, and he threatened to punch the lights out of the trapper when they got back!!
Bit of an official contratemps afterwards but the Radar eventually made it to quite high levels in the Air Farce.
Along comes the 'trapper'
Is it a blessing that everybody sings from the same hymn sheet, or a curse that life hereon is going to be one stressed check ride after another?
Back in the last century when the V force was still at the pointy end I remember an incident with a 1 GSU check ride on the Nav Plotter. The plotter was obviously quite reasonable so the trapper threw in more and more limited aids stuff. It got to the point when the Radar (not being checked), trying very hard for a decent bomb run, eventually switched all the kit off, threw his pencil box on the bench and declared, "Well, if you're going to **** me around that much I'm not playing" - or words to that effect. Oh, and he threatened to punch the lights out of the trapper when they got back!!
Bit of an official contratemps afterwards but the Radar eventually made it to quite high levels in the Air Farce.
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There will always be individuals who when give ("Power") responsibility, will put there heads even further up their own backside, and trappers are no different. Question beyond belief was "How many times per min does the strobe flash", receiving an instant answer of "89 sir" followed by "How the **** do you know that" followed by "The onus is now upon you to prove me wrong"!!
The ideology of Staneval / Exam Wing; or whatever they call themselves nowadays (SEF?) is good, their methods usually good, but when they arrive dressed like a bag of nails preaching standards (as happened in the last 12 months) leaves a lot to be desired.
Edited because my spuu1ng is much better at this time of day
The ideology of Staneval / Exam Wing; or whatever they call themselves nowadays (SEF?) is good, their methods usually good, but when they arrive dressed like a bag of nails preaching standards (as happened in the last 12 months) leaves a lot to be desired.
Edited because my spuu1ng is much better at this time of day
Last edited by Tiger_mate; 9th May 2004 at 20:35.
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I remember when (far more years ago than I wish) I was about to set off to CFS to attempt to get an A2 and the CI handed me my recommendation with the words " When you get to Little Rissington hand this form in at exam wing and see who is doing the test with you. If it is Flt Lt **** return to your aircraft and come straight back. I will not have any of my staff examined by that man."
It wasn't and somehow I passed (1st time!!!!)
It wasn't and somehow I passed (1st time!!!!)
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The argument for trappers is the same one that should have been accepted to retain the so called Rolls Royce standards of training in the RAF. The lords and masters view that this standard is no longer affordable fails to appreciate that a smaller force must be trained to the highest level to ensure that it can make the most of the limited resources. The staneval organisation, independant of squadron and station, should be there to ensure that quality is maintained. To be credible the checking must sensibly concentrate on the operational role and be carried out by individuals respected by their victims not only for their professional ability but also for their approachable style, not always the case. They should ideally work directly at Group or Command level to avoid the pressures from local commanders who have been known to find it difficult accept independant opinion. The case for a standards organisation is as high now as ever.
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I would certainly have to agree with you ArtField. This is a time when the standard has to be high. But that has to be done independently by approachable people who are willing to impart their knowledge and expertise in an acceptable way. There will always be the smart ass who thinks he/she is just better than anyone else and ends up as a pain in the ass.
The old Group Standardisation Units worked - but I suppose that means squeezing somebody's budget just that little tighter!
The old Group Standardisation Units worked - but I suppose that means squeezing somebody's budget just that little tighter!
Staneval/Trappers/SEF...they're usually very good. We need level-headed experienced guys to come and look at what the Units do, and report from an independant view point. Provided that they do it objectively (not objectionally) there should be no hassle. They have a job to do too, and these days they need also to know what the 'boys' are doing for real..not just banging around the circuit at the right height/speed ball me old bucket!
I've been trapped by the Crabs, the WAFU's and the Box 'Eds. Much of a muchness and on the whole nice, helpful geezers to a man..with one exception...he'll know who he was...ground Cat..."So Bloggs...draw me the circuit diagram of the MK1a fuel computer..(RR Gnome).."??????????????????" (PO Bloggs...a few 'O'Levels and not much else.."well I know where it is..and what signals it gets...will that do?" To which the reply was "Not really" He wore a MB tie for banging out of a burning Vulcan in Malta..nuff said.
Trappers..we need them to keep the standards up....TTFN
I've been trapped by the Crabs, the WAFU's and the Box 'Eds. Much of a muchness and on the whole nice, helpful geezers to a man..with one exception...he'll know who he was...ground Cat..."So Bloggs...draw me the circuit diagram of the MK1a fuel computer..(RR Gnome).."??????????????????" (PO Bloggs...a few 'O'Levels and not much else.."well I know where it is..and what signals it gets...will that do?" To which the reply was "Not really" He wore a MB tie for banging out of a burning Vulcan in Malta..nuff said.
Trappers..we need them to keep the standards up....TTFN
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Whenever I flew with them they were hard but fair.
Actually the ones everybody said were complete basta*ds usually were, but once they had had their fun making life hell for a couple of sorties they were usually OK - they quite often taught you a lot......
and standards means standards..........otherwise there is no point having them
Arc
Actually the ones everybody said were complete basta*ds usually were, but once they had had their fun making life hell for a couple of sorties they were usually OK - they quite often taught you a lot......
and standards means standards..........otherwise there is no point having them
Arc
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Two stories, the first of a friend and the second mine.
The first, a Vulcan 1 Nav Rad being checked by John 'Willie'. After a string of very accurate, high-level- simulated bomb runs said "If you weren't as experienced as you are you wouldn't have seen that aiming point.' Doh?
Mine, with a wee jock in Cyprus.
"How does the No 76 nose pistol (in the 1000lb bomb) work?"
I gave a detailed, screw by screw description culminating with "and when it hits the ground it goes bang."
"Very good", he said, "but not quite right. As the bomb approaches the ground the pressure builds up, there is a diaphram reversal, and the bomb detonates 18 inches above the ground."
"No", I said, "That is the No 76 Mk 1 pistol. We have the No 76 Mk 2 which has a plate over the diaphram to stop premature detonation."
The trapper didn't give up.
"What is the colour of the 25lb Practice Bomb?"
"Blue" , no he said it is "Duck Egg Blue"
"What is the colour of the 28 lb Practice Bomb?"
"Blue", "What Blue?"
"Duck Egg?" "No, its French Powder Blue"
Later, outside the aircraft, bomb trolley has 25lb and 28 lb bombs and both are F*CK*NG BLUE same F*CK*NG BLUE. Who F*CK*ING CARED.
The first, a Vulcan 1 Nav Rad being checked by John 'Willie'. After a string of very accurate, high-level- simulated bomb runs said "If you weren't as experienced as you are you wouldn't have seen that aiming point.' Doh?
Mine, with a wee jock in Cyprus.
"How does the No 76 nose pistol (in the 1000lb bomb) work?"
I gave a detailed, screw by screw description culminating with "and when it hits the ground it goes bang."
"Very good", he said, "but not quite right. As the bomb approaches the ground the pressure builds up, there is a diaphram reversal, and the bomb detonates 18 inches above the ground."
"No", I said, "That is the No 76 Mk 1 pistol. We have the No 76 Mk 2 which has a plate over the diaphram to stop premature detonation."
The trapper didn't give up.
"What is the colour of the 25lb Practice Bomb?"
"Blue" , no he said it is "Duck Egg Blue"
"What is the colour of the 28 lb Practice Bomb?"
"Blue", "What Blue?"
"Duck Egg?" "No, its French Powder Blue"
Later, outside the aircraft, bomb trolley has 25lb and 28 lb bombs and both are F*CK*NG BLUE same F*CK*NG BLUE. Who F*CK*ING CARED.
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We had an ex trapper on the squadron, Master Green and A1 on heavens knows how many different types, and a "right know it all".
Came the day the trappers visited and they were his mates.
Our friend was not amused when one of them decided to take him for a ride.
Not a word had been said up to the point where they got their takeoff clearance and rolled onto the runway, so the visitor in the back seat said " Hey Fred, what about some checks ?",
to which Fred replied " fuel and noise" and took off.
Alas poor Fred was even more upset when he was told he had failed his check for not taking it seriously.
Came the day the trappers visited and they were his mates.
Our friend was not amused when one of them decided to take him for a ride.
Not a word had been said up to the point where they got their takeoff clearance and rolled onto the runway, so the visitor in the back seat said " Hey Fred, what about some checks ?",
to which Fred replied " fuel and noise" and took off.
Alas poor Fred was even more upset when he was told he had failed his check for not taking it seriously.
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And I thought this would be discussing the relative merits of BBQing one's own steak at a certain establishment in Goose Bay....I'll get me (rather substantial, given the tempeature there) coat!
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Pontious,
He was probably expressing his 'feminine' side
Apparently they can see millions more colours than we can - I know - I've been with my wife (both of them) shopping
He was probably expressing his 'feminine' side
Apparently they can see millions more colours than we can - I know - I've been with my wife (both of them) shopping
When I was conducting Ground Cats, all that mattered was that they were practical and that the poor victim left having learned something.
And yes, I know I used to waffle on but I hated the bŁoody things and it was a way of killing time!
But I was a bit surprised how little some pilots knew about FMS switchery in the Vickers FunBus.....or how to do JetPlan corrections methodically.
And yes, I know I used to waffle on but I hated the bŁoody things and it was a way of killing time!
But I was a bit surprised how little some pilots knew about FMS switchery in the Vickers FunBus.....or how to do JetPlan corrections methodically.
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First time that I flew with the dreaded trappers was as a lowly air cadet glider pilot, on winch launched Viking gliders in Kent. I was so nervous I made a complete of the launch: yawing left and right to indicate that the winch driver was going too fast set me off on a left-to-right pendulum motion on the cable. Each time I tried to correct it led to further swaying, with me cursing under my breath and fighting the stick. Eventually I got to the top of the launch, released the cable and apologised for the "crap take-off". Slight pause followed by "Hmm....I was going to simulate a launch failure, but I chose not to as you had enough on your plate, and I thought you were going to do it for me anyway at some point". Thankfully the rest of the flight was okay, and after another launch he passed me.
I think I'll stick to fixing aircraft.......now where's that spanner??
of the launch: yawing left and right to indicate that the winch driver was going too fast set me off on a left-to-right pendulum motion on the cable. Each time I tried to correct it led to further swaying, with me cursing under my breath and fighting the stick. Eventually I got to the top of the launch, released the cable and apologised for the "crap take-off". Slight pause followed by "Hmm....I was going to simulate a launch failure, but I chose not to as you had enough on your plate, and I thought you were going to do it for me anyway at some point". Thankfully the rest of the flight was okay, and after another launch he passed me.I think I'll stick to fixing aircraft.......now where's that spanner??
Just finished (as of 2 hrs ago) my 'th trap of my career. As usual, some went well, some didn't. I still dread them arriving, and I'm still happy to learn from them, and long may we keep the system in place.
Thank god the beer's cold!
'th trap of my career. As usual, some went well, some didn't. I still dread them arriving, and I'm still happy to learn from them, and long may we keep the system in place.Thank god the beer's cold!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Shackman we did not trap on the mighty hunter where I was nav 2 and nav 1 was assessed as strictly average.
We watched the other crews on the sqn jumping through hoops, polishing flying boots flight planning etc, something you NEVER did for real.
Then we did a sim. Two hours in we had killed 2 subs including one on our transit that all the other crews missed. Maybe someone gave our knockers a hint. Three hours in and 3 down, mission accomplished. Accomplished that is except that we had another 2 hours in the box. Trappers play time 'non-assessed' - oh yeah!
Gave nav 1 TWO submarines at an RV and left us to chase two alerted nukes. We nailed at least one before we ran out of time as we were about to nail the other. Top marks 73%.
Then the air ride. Unlike the other crews we planned to flight plan on the day as the mission ALWAYS changed from the plan. Not today. Because it was a trap ride the tasker at Pitreavie did us a 'favour' and tasked in accordance with our request.
SH1T.
We got airborne from ISK, cleared for the HUTA and were just about to enter when we got an airborne retask. BRILLIANT.
Co cancelled our flight plan, swift 180, and head for the North Sea. Mission, surface surveillance for a fisheries vessel escorting an oil rig tow through congested waters.
We pulled out our own oil rig chart and set to. Where did you get that asked the trapper as the oil rig charts were prepared by wing and only issued to dedicated Tapestry sortie. Oh we always carry our own - more up to date and . . .
Survived another day but poor nav 1 still didn't get assimilated.
We watched the other crews on the sqn jumping through hoops, polishing flying boots flight planning etc, something you NEVER did for real.
Then we did a sim. Two hours in we had killed 2 subs including one on our transit that all the other crews missed. Maybe someone gave our knockers a hint. Three hours in and 3 down, mission accomplished. Accomplished that is except that we had another 2 hours in the box. Trappers play time 'non-assessed' - oh yeah!
Gave nav 1 TWO submarines at an RV and left us to chase two alerted nukes. We nailed at least one before we ran out of time as we were about to nail the other. Top marks 73%.
Then the air ride. Unlike the other crews we planned to flight plan on the day as the mission ALWAYS changed from the plan. Not today. Because it was a trap ride the tasker at Pitreavie did us a 'favour' and tasked in accordance with our request.
SH1T.
We got airborne from ISK, cleared for the HUTA and were just about to enter when we got an airborne retask. BRILLIANT.
Co cancelled our flight plan, swift 180, and head for the North Sea. Mission, surface surveillance for a fisheries vessel escorting an oil rig tow through congested waters.
We pulled out our own oil rig chart and set to. Where did you get that asked the trapper as the oil rig charts were prepared by wing and only issued to dedicated Tapestry sortie. Oh we always carry our own - more up to date and . . .
Survived another day but poor nav 1 still didn't get assimilated.
Sorry PN - missed your point. I was purely commenting that I had finished standards yesterday, one of the many I have gone through in my flying career. No matter what - with an open mind there is always something to learn and invariably something has changed (normally within the many JSPs, FOBs/TGOs, AIPs and countless other documents we are supposed to possess encyclopeadic knowledge of).
However, I did have the pleasure (?) of annual visits from 18GSU (and Coastal Command Standards Unit before that). No we didn't have a simulator, so all our flying was real time, but we still had to play the exercises for real, and even caught a Polaris boat that wasn't playing in 'our' war.
Incidentally, I prefer to call them Standards - trappers will always try to live up to their name
However, I did have the pleasure (?) of annual visits from 18GSU (and Coastal Command Standards Unit before that). No we didn't have a simulator, so all our flying was real time, but we still had to play the exercises for real, and even caught a Polaris boat that wasn't playing in 'our' war.
Incidentally, I prefer to call them Standards - trappers will always try to live up to their name
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Shackman,
i cocked up my reply. NOT should have read ONE.
True they were standardisers not trappers but old habits die hard and it is very dificult for the victim to determine the standardisation.
BTW I was a standardiser at one time on the RAFASupU. Yup we tired to train. Indeed one sqn actually wanted us to chop one of their navs. The nav duly cooperated by being singularly dim and operationally inept. We made an adverse comment but declined from being the choppers too.
IMHO we should have chopped him.
i cocked up my reply. NOT should have read ONE.
True they were standardisers not trappers but old habits die hard and it is very dificult for the victim to determine the standardisation.
BTW I was a standardiser at one time on the RAFASupU. Yup we tired to train. Indeed one sqn actually wanted us to chop one of their navs. The nav duly cooperated by being singularly dim and operationally inept. We made an adverse comment but declined from being the choppers too.
IMHO we should have chopped him.
RAFASupU - wasn't that always such a fun visit. How long were the various bits of string for the snatch plugs, recite the 2-man principal ad nauseam - unauthorised act or incorrect procedure - , what was the energy absorption of the old white paint which was replaced some 20 years ago (90Kcal/sq cm or something?), what were all the safety interlocks, when did the radar fuze operate.... Then out into the feezing cold to go through all the acceptance procedures....show pass to dog and plod, go with AEO to power set, get in bomber, listen to navigators making a hash of the checklist etc etc.
Not quite as bad as being taught the Pauli Exclusion Principle at 0815 with a minging hangover down at Collyweston - and watching all those quaint old 1960s atomic age 16mm films!
But I guess like the once mighty V-force, there's no trace of any such things left these days.
Not quite as bad as being taught the Pauli Exclusion Principle at 0815 with a minging hangover down at Collyweston - and watching all those quaint old 1960s atomic age 16mm films!
But I guess like the once mighty V-force, there's no trace of any such things left these days.
<<Pauli Exclusion Principle>>
4 Firq Saiq !
I thought you were a pilot, not an effin' nuclear physicist
Apropos trapping in civil aviation; we'd a LOFT (Line Orientated Flight Training - which was supposed to be completely non-jeopardy - yeah, right!) which took the plane to the brink of losing roll/yaw control. We were the first crew to run the exercise so word hadn't got around.
At the time I thought this was pretty negative training because of the adverse psychological effect on a pilot of crashing the jet. Some crews did; but not us BECAUSE I'd a really switched on FO who came up with a PLAN so we did it his way and survived.
I think it was the only time in my life that my pulse went seriously up in the sim and I considered the possibility of not making it but it is forever burnt into my brain as is the survival technique.
What I learnt from that was:
a) The guy who wrote the exercise wasn't just a heartless b'stard amusing himself. He gave us a real situation which had happened in the course of a passenger flight and was marginal but (just) surviveable. (we got our own back later when he couldn't find his nav bag in the bar - now you know who you are, very kind regards, pomate
)
b) We learned a lot from that exercise - listen to all the crew, don't rush in, don't give in - all sorts etc.
c) If it looks like the guy's deliberately making you screw up don't take it personally - he can't be in the pay of your wife, can he?
Standards are making sure that lazy little monkeys swing around the trees safely and effectively instead of sitting on the . . . WTF am I writing? Just in from pub - that's enough
4 Firq Saiq !
I thought you were a pilot, not an effin' nuclear physicist
Apropos trapping in civil aviation; we'd a LOFT (Line Orientated Flight Training - which was supposed to be completely non-jeopardy - yeah, right!) which took the plane to the brink of losing roll/yaw control. We were the first crew to run the exercise so word hadn't got around.
At the time I thought this was pretty negative training because of the adverse psychological effect on a pilot of crashing the jet. Some crews did; but not us BECAUSE I'd a really switched on FO who came up with a PLAN so we did it his way and survived.
I think it was the only time in my life that my pulse went seriously up in the sim and I considered the possibility of not making it but it is forever burnt into my brain as is the survival technique.
What I learnt from that was:
a) The guy who wrote the exercise wasn't just a heartless b'stard amusing himself. He gave us a real situation which had happened in the course of a passenger flight and was marginal but (just) surviveable. (we got our own back later when he couldn't find his nav bag in the bar - now you know who you are, very kind regards, pomate
)b) We learned a lot from that exercise - listen to all the crew, don't rush in, don't give in - all sorts etc.
c) If it looks like the guy's deliberately making you screw up don't take it personally - he can't be in the pay of your wife, can he?
Standards are making sure that lazy little monkeys swing around the trees safely and effectively instead of sitting on the . . . WTF am I writing? Just in from pub - that's enough