Anyone know anything about BLUH?
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Bluh is dead. Its just a lynx with a few bits added on and no extra range or endurance. The gap between the asking price and what the MOD will pay is too large. Nobody wants it, however thats not Westlands fault, as nobody at the MOD had even considered procuring a replacement for lynx until Westlands put Bluh forward. Because Bluh is dead, Scummer will also die because the numbers without Bluh are not economical. The army will get Blackhawk, which Westlands used to have a license to build, and 847 will lose its lynx and upgrade its gazelles with a squirrel rotor head and hot missiles and Gray lynx will go I favour of either super lynx, seahawk(ok, I'm dreaming) or more Merlin.
Or possibly they will just shut down the Military and have done with it.
Or possibly they will just shut down the Military and have done with it.
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Have heard the same as above.
If the papers were correct this morning, and Puma will go soon to be replaced by Merlin, then it makes sense for the Air Corps to increase the size, payload capability etc etc of BLUH i.e. Blackhawk / NH90 / AB139.
Also, if the Air Corps have a D model Apache and Blackhawk, we can actually work on a similar level and pace to our cousins over the water.
There's no reason why 847 could not get the armed version of Blackhawk / Seahawk, ditto 657.
If not, then is NH90 only a Maritime aircraft or can it be sensibly used on land as well? Is AB139 used by anyone yet or is it still at the prototype stage?
Did not know that Westlands had the release contract to build Blackhawk. Is that for anyone in particular, or just a useful mistake?
If the papers were correct this morning, and Puma will go soon to be replaced by Merlin, then it makes sense for the Air Corps to increase the size, payload capability etc etc of BLUH i.e. Blackhawk / NH90 / AB139.
Also, if the Air Corps have a D model Apache and Blackhawk, we can actually work on a similar level and pace to our cousins over the water.
There's no reason why 847 could not get the armed version of Blackhawk / Seahawk, ditto 657.
If not, then is NH90 only a Maritime aircraft or can it be sensibly used on land as well? Is AB139 used by anyone yet or is it still at the prototype stage?
Did not know that Westlands had the release contract to build Blackhawk. Is that for anyone in particular, or just a useful mistake?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
IF the first CTT has been completed as reported, then some serious issues are out there.
Akin to having a motor-race at Brands Hatch and the first 12/24 to surtees corner only have to race the Indy circuit and not the GP circuit.
Akin to having a motor-race at Brands Hatch and the first 12/24 to surtees corner only have to race the Indy circuit and not the GP circuit.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Without aactually spelling it out
Indy Circuit
Circuit Length : 1.2262 miles (1.9735 km)
Grand Prix Circuit
Circuit Length : 2.62 miles (4.22 km)
Indy Circuit
Circuit Length : 1.2262 miles (1.9735 km)
Grand Prix Circuit
Circuit Length : 2.62 miles (4.22 km)
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Took me a while to understand the analagy too. You might have a point in that "The plan will work, long live the plan" mentality could have its limits. Still, almost there.
As someone else pointed out, green Lynx still has a part to play, especially if Puma is pulled out of Ireland: merlin looks unlikely to be used in the province.
With reference to time taken to bring an aircraft into service, how long are we looking at before we have BLUH working. Two, five or ten years? (ABIW, don't feel the need to add any childish, chippy rear crew comments at this point)
Anyone any idea how long?
As someone else pointed out, green Lynx still has a part to play, especially if Puma is pulled out of Ireland: merlin looks unlikely to be used in the province.
With reference to time taken to bring an aircraft into service, how long are we looking at before we have BLUH working. Two, five or ten years? (ABIW, don't feel the need to add any childish, chippy rear crew comments at this point)
Anyone any idea how long?
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Brandnew, 2010 if it goes ahead. A hold of 2 years for all the big MoD spending at present means the BLUH is still in limbo.
PS ABIW cant resist adding his 'witty' responses as he's looking at a future with Ryan Air as a trolley dolly once he demobs, great.
PS ABIW cant resist adding his 'witty' responses as he's looking at a future with Ryan Air as a trolley dolly once he demobs, great.
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Far too old for that, wrinkled willy old fella
8 years to go to 55 and if the new pension scheme delivers as promised full retirement for me and no more work
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
8 years to go to 55 and if the new pension scheme delivers as promised full retirement for me and no more work
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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My mistake, ABIW. I believed you to be an 18-year-old Sgt baggage handler due to your immature replies to all threads not concerning you. I stand corrected.
Having said that, you’ve still got into the mess via the back door though. You provide a worthwhile service and should be respected for that. We have RP sgts who have a similar respect in our mess too.
Having said that, you’ve still got into the mess via the back door though. You provide a worthwhile service and should be respected for that. We have RP sgts who have a similar respect in our mess too.
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Oh wrinkled willy how silly do you seem to me
Brief resume....joined 74 as nav inst mech....fitters course...cpl 82, sgt 86.....busted to aircrew cadet for ALM trg.......promoted back to Sgt on completion.....now FS and happy as a pig in
sh!t
Now the one thing I have learnt in my 30 year service is how to wind up "bottom feeders".........hence what you perceive as "immature replies" is nothing more than ground bait........which you seem to thrive on
So in conclusion as long as people take the hook I will attempt to reel them in
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Brief resume....joined 74 as nav inst mech....fitters course...cpl 82, sgt 86.....busted to aircrew cadet for ALM trg.......promoted back to Sgt on completion.....now FS and happy as a pig in
sh!t
Now the one thing I have learnt in my 30 year service is how to wind up "bottom feeders".........hence what you perceive as "immature replies" is nothing more than ground bait........which you seem to thrive on
So in conclusion as long as people take the hook I will attempt to reel them in
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Big chuffing deal.
I think you will find the one that has taken the bait is you, nonce. You appear to have had to justify your existence to me by posting what can be considered to be 'underachievement on a scale akin to The defence of Pearl Harbour'.
So you’ve been in 30 years and you’ve achieved the dizzy heights of FS.
".....now FS and happy as a pig in
sh!t"
And probably have the manners and hygiene values of aforementioned swine too.
Does your annual confidential report read 'this man works well under supervision'? or 'He demonstrates leadership qualities that would make a member of Mencap look like Dave Stirling'?
You'll find it's a lonely place in civvy street for types like you.
What’s it like knowing that a 21 year old can do your job?
I think you will find the one that has taken the bait is you, nonce. You appear to have had to justify your existence to me by posting what can be considered to be 'underachievement on a scale akin to The defence of Pearl Harbour'.
So you’ve been in 30 years and you’ve achieved the dizzy heights of FS.
".....now FS and happy as a pig in
sh!t"
And probably have the manners and hygiene values of aforementioned swine too.
Does your annual confidential report read 'this man works well under supervision'? or 'He demonstrates leadership qualities that would make a member of Mencap look like Dave Stirling'?
You'll find it's a lonely place in civvy street for types like you.
What’s it like knowing that a 21 year old can do your job?
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Anyone know anything about BLUH?
Ah sod it! Can't resist throwing my tuppence in!
For what it's worth (probably not that much), I attended a briefing on BLUH last year. The old S-70 vs Super Lynx was quickly raised at question time with all the compelling arguments given for the Shytalk. The presenter was, inspite of the clearly overwhelming urge to toe the party line, willing to concede the S-70 was by far a better aircraft for the job. The issue however was one of finance. In the preceding months our witless friends in the corridors of power in Whitehall had decided to divert £850 million from the Sea Harrier (Stick that in your pipe and smoke fish-heads!) to the BLUH project. As welcome as this funding was, it was limited in buying scope and how long the funding was available for. Essentially, presenter chap was saying that if the Army Air Corps didn't choose an acft that was within budget and able to be in service by around 2008, it would lose the funding all together. Admittedly I have precied what he said but essentially the jist was use it or lose it. Given that the S-70 unit cost was about £30mil compared to about £8.99 for Super Lynx the AAC was pretty much hamstrung into opting for Lynx.
I see now from previous posts that the funding has been delayed and therefore so has BLUH, so who knows what's going to happen. What was so frustrating at the time was that everbody in the AAC from the Director down wanted S-70 as it fits the bill perfectly. However the reality was/is that doctrine does not drive capabilty as it is supposed to (as taught at the Joint Staff and death-by-powerpoint College), pocket money does! How naive was I to ever think otherwise?
I know from first hand, that the S-70 is the best capability option for BLUH for all the reasons given by the postees above and for many more. I think that the reality however is that Army has blown its wad with WAH-64D and that if it doesn't buy Super Lynx, they're going to get the square root of sweet FA. What a sad state of affairs.
For what it's worth (probably not that much), I attended a briefing on BLUH last year. The old S-70 vs Super Lynx was quickly raised at question time with all the compelling arguments given for the Shytalk. The presenter was, inspite of the clearly overwhelming urge to toe the party line, willing to concede the S-70 was by far a better aircraft for the job. The issue however was one of finance. In the preceding months our witless friends in the corridors of power in Whitehall had decided to divert £850 million from the Sea Harrier (Stick that in your pipe and smoke fish-heads!
) to the BLUH project. As welcome as this funding was, it was limited in buying scope and how long the funding was available for. Essentially, presenter chap was saying that if the Army Air Corps didn't choose an acft that was within budget and able to be in service by around 2008, it would lose the funding all together. Admittedly I have precied what he said but essentially the jist was use it or lose it. Given that the S-70 unit cost was about £30mil compared to about £8.99 for Super Lynx the AAC was pretty much hamstrung into opting for Lynx. I see now from previous posts that the funding has been delayed and therefore so has BLUH, so who knows what's going to happen. What was so frustrating at the time was that everbody in the AAC from the Director down wanted S-70 as it fits the bill perfectly. However the reality was/is that doctrine does not drive capabilty as it is supposed to (as taught at the Joint Staff and death-by-powerpoint College), pocket money does! How naive was I to ever think otherwise?
I know from first hand, that the S-70 is the best capability option for BLUH for all the reasons given by the postees above and for many more. I think that the reality however is that Army has blown its wad with WAH-64D and that if it doesn't buy Super Lynx, they're going to get the square root of sweet FA. What a sad state of affairs.
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Gentlemen, Gentlemen, if you want to draw Mess Webleys at dawn, please do so elsewhere and lets try to keep this thread on the path of enlightenment. There's nothing more unseemly than two senior citizens baring their private parts in public
Now where were we?
Now where were we?
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Empire, totally agree.
From what I can gather, the BLUH as it stands is Lynx, driven by the need to keep Westland’s buoyant. Its not what we want as it is basically a 'cut and shut' of the existing version.
Want and need are two totally different aspects.
We need something to replace the current tired frame. We don’t have the dosh as we've just forked out on a large quantity (relatively speaking) of 'Cold war assets wrapped in a 25 year+ old airframe'. I can’t see the treasury playing ball when the AAC ask for another all singing and dancing spanking new heli. So we need a cheap alternative. Politics dictate BLUH being Lynx as it’s a rehash of what we already own. Not ideal. The newer engines are thirstier, no extra room for bigger tanks = less range. A rewrite of existing doctrine to fulfil this cab. Not exactly a leap forward.
The want.
From what I gather, if we push for S70, it steps on the toes of SHF and as they have a larger portion of the pie, it will go to them as a Puma replacement, of sorts. Result, AAC becomes a one type force (AH) = AAC need to start practicing wearing white socks in the mess and a sideways walking drill movement. That, in my opinion, is not a viable solution for many reasons.
When you have fcuk all to spend, but need to re equip, you need to shop at Costcutters and live within your income.
As we know, the current dictatorship doesn’t have any idea how important an insurance policy the armed forces are and will chop it to a bare minimum just for a couple of Guardian reader types votes.
Empire, a battle of wits with ABIW is akin to hosing down a small Kent Village with DU. Darn unfair and totally unarmed.
From what I can gather, the BLUH as it stands is Lynx, driven by the need to keep Westland’s buoyant. Its not what we want as it is basically a 'cut and shut' of the existing version.
Want and need are two totally different aspects.
We need something to replace the current tired frame. We don’t have the dosh as we've just forked out on a large quantity (relatively speaking) of 'Cold war assets wrapped in a 25 year+ old airframe'. I can’t see the treasury playing ball when the AAC ask for another all singing and dancing spanking new heli. So we need a cheap alternative. Politics dictate BLUH being Lynx as it’s a rehash of what we already own. Not ideal. The newer engines are thirstier, no extra room for bigger tanks = less range. A rewrite of existing doctrine to fulfil this cab. Not exactly a leap forward.
The want.
From what I gather, if we push for S70, it steps on the toes of SHF and as they have a larger portion of the pie, it will go to them as a Puma replacement, of sorts. Result, AAC becomes a one type force (AH) = AAC need to start practicing wearing white socks in the mess and a sideways walking drill movement. That, in my opinion, is not a viable solution for many reasons.
When you have fcuk all to spend, but need to re equip, you need to shop at Costcutters and live within your income.
As we know, the current dictatorship doesn’t have any idea how important an insurance policy the armed forces are and will chop it to a bare minimum just for a couple of Guardian reader types votes.
Empire, a battle of wits with ABIW is akin to hosing down a small Kent Village with DU. Darn unfair and totally unarmed.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
ABIW as it has been hinted at here and else where, it's nothing to do with you baiting people, which you don't actually do, you are abusive to anyone who doesn't follow your line.
This is a military forum and should you wish to talk to other arms in the way you do, I suggest you either go off to Jet Blast or start up your own crab forum and have it 'by invitation only'
Your not good at fishing
You're just a TW@
reply to jet blast, a thread has been started for you thanks;
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=125296
edit
this has now been deleted for whatever reason.
Even after following the rules for Jet Blast, it seems to challenge a crab or to disagree with their views/opinions on any forum is not the thing to do.
CRAB FORUM REQUIRED!!
This is a military forum and should you wish to talk to other arms in the way you do, I suggest you either go off to Jet Blast or start up your own crab forum and have it 'by invitation only'
Your not good at fishing
You're just a TW@
reply to jet blast, a thread has been started for you thanks;
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=125296
edit
this has now been deleted for whatever reason.
Even after following the rules for Jet Blast, it seems to challenge a crab or to disagree with their views/opinions on any forum is not the thing to do.
CRAB FORUM REQUIRED!!
Last edited by SilsoeSid; 3rd Apr 2004 at 11:41.
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Wow, not sure I want to stick my head over the parapet at the moment.Anyway continuing on: Bill, I guess the only thing I would be inclined to call you on is an S-70 procurement going to SHF. I think that the AAC would have a strong enough case to keep it as an organic AH support asset. The SHF, though doing a very good job the last time I looked, are overstretched between 16 Bde, 1 Div, 3 Div, JSFAW, Other Ops, blah, blah. I have no doubt that they would be more than happy to offload the 16 Bde work to an S-70 equipped AAC. After all, AAC, SHF and Junglies all work under a joint command (although I did sometmes question the true jointery and indeed 'command' of JHC). I think I would be more concerned about all the BS tasking the S-70 squadrons would get outside of supporting AH and 16 Bde Ops...ie Mail Runs, Village Fetes, flying His Generalship, wife, spaniels and golf clubs etc.
As you have said, in the end, AAC has no choice but to shop at H-Mart and pick from the bargain bucket. Super Lynx looks like it might be a nice jet to fly especially if they put some decent goodies on it, (FLIR, HIDAS, Wx Radar, IFR suite, Latte Machine) but unfortunately it will not really enhance Land Manoeuvre capability and will probably frustrate the fcuk out of everyone involved in trying to employ the thing.
EO
BTW, ABIW, you are doing yourself, rank and service no favours judging by your recent posts. I don't know you from a bar of toffee but I have no compunction in also telling you to quote "Nob-Off!"
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Finally, some sense and some informed comments. Thank you.
Very interesting and sadly inevitiable that we are forced into buying a product that is not really suitable merely because
a) it keeps Westlands going
b) if we don't spend the money, we lose it.
If we limit ourselves to the smaller aircraft then we can't really do the job asked of us, but if we go for the bigger aircraft, we might not get it and may run the danger of "wearing white socks."
Unbelievable. A few rhetorical questions.
Is there a danger of us loosing LUH's totally and becoming an all AH force? Or will we have a few LUH's just supporting AH and have to leave 16Bde in the hands of (an RAF led and admitidly competant) SH force? Or could we expand our SH force in the army and do 16Bde and leave the RAF SH to support Apache?
The last scenario could be the most useful for us: we fly up to and beyond the FEBA flying (our) soldiers around while the RAF do what they genuinely do better than us: lug about all the fuel, bombs and associated stuff for AH.
Why not? Soldiers flying about the soldiers and the Air Force lugging all our kit for our Attack Helicopters
Very interesting and sadly inevitiable that we are forced into buying a product that is not really suitable merely because
a) it keeps Westlands going
b) if we don't spend the money, we lose it.
If we limit ourselves to the smaller aircraft then we can't really do the job asked of us, but if we go for the bigger aircraft, we might not get it and may run the danger of "wearing white socks."
Unbelievable. A few rhetorical questions.
Is there a danger of us loosing LUH's totally and becoming an all AH force? Or will we have a few LUH's just supporting AH and have to leave 16Bde in the hands of (an RAF led and admitidly competant) SH force? Or could we expand our SH force in the army and do 16Bde and leave the RAF SH to support Apache?
The last scenario could be the most useful for us: we fly up to and beyond the FEBA flying (our) soldiers around while the RAF do what they genuinely do better than us: lug about all the fuel, bombs and associated stuff for AH.
Why not? Soldiers flying about the soldiers and the Air Force lugging all our kit for our Attack Helicopters
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Ooooooh ABIW,
Looks like some of the cammed up boys have got a strop on.
Maybe a CRABS ONLY FORUM isn't such a bad idea.At least then the brownies from TWA would be excluded.
I note that Blustering BO is out and about.Perhaps ARRSE has been doing a bit of Spring cleaning !!
E5
Looks like some of the cammed up boys have got a strop on.
Maybe a CRABS ONLY FORUM isn't such a bad idea.At least then the brownies from TWA would be excluded.
I note that Blustering BO is out and about.Perhaps ARRSE has been doing a bit of Spring cleaning !!
E5