Log Books
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Log Books
My squadron has just recently imposed “is to/are to” guidelines with regard to the completion of flying log books. Perhaps not such a bad idea on the face of it, everyone completes their log books in exactly the same way, conformity and all that, however, is it really necessary to radically change the way log books, and in particular the monthly summary, are formatted, when the previous format has been used for 5/10/15/20 years or more? I have always taken care to ensure that each page is completed in the same way as the previous, and now the new format looks sh!*8. Another of the imposed rules is that we are no longer allowed to use the “Spare” column for keeping a running total of total flying hours. Instead we have to keep a running total for total flying hours on current type, information which is available in annual summaries.
For most rear crew personnel the flying log book is not worth much more than the paper it is written on, a reference document for all the nice places HMG has sent you during your time in the forces, and something to bore your grand-children with. In fact I have probably spent the equivalent of 3/4 weeks completing my log book over the years, time I am sure that could have been more productively used. I also know that most, if not all, the people I work with have similar thoughts.
The questions I have are
1. Is it just our squadron that is afflicted with these new rules, or does it extend to station, or even RAF/MOD wide? Perhaps there is a DCI somewhere that stipulates how to complete a flying log book?
2. Do the people that come up with these bright ideas have nothing better to do? From what I understand, the ruling here has come from a very senior level, and perhaps from even higher off-station? I would suggest that someone is getting paid far too much for coming up with pointless ideas.
3. I am being deliberately vague about my location because I do not want to be on the wrong end of a witch-hunt, but has anyone else been subjected to similar such rules? If you are on the same squadron as me you will know what I am talking about, but nil returns required please.
Rant over for now, but even more annoyed having had to type this message out a second time because it got lost when I tried to post it first time.
For most rear crew personnel the flying log book is not worth much more than the paper it is written on, a reference document for all the nice places HMG has sent you during your time in the forces, and something to bore your grand-children with. In fact I have probably spent the equivalent of 3/4 weeks completing my log book over the years, time I am sure that could have been more productively used. I also know that most, if not all, the people I work with have similar thoughts.
The questions I have are
1. Is it just our squadron that is afflicted with these new rules, or does it extend to station, or even RAF/MOD wide? Perhaps there is a DCI somewhere that stipulates how to complete a flying log book?
2. Do the people that come up with these bright ideas have nothing better to do? From what I understand, the ruling here has come from a very senior level, and perhaps from even higher off-station? I would suggest that someone is getting paid far too much for coming up with pointless ideas.
3. I am being deliberately vague about my location because I do not want to be on the wrong end of a witch-hunt, but has anyone else been subjected to similar such rules? If you are on the same squadron as me you will know what I am talking about, but nil returns required please.
Rant over for now, but even more annoyed having had to type this message out a second time because it got lost when I tried to post it first time.
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IMHO log books are to be completed as described inside the front cover. I suppose the spare column can be used to suit the local commanders.
I do not know of any recent directive on the kipper fleet.
I do not know of any recent directive on the kipper fleet.
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I believe there is an AP giving detailed instructions on log-book completion, but I have never seen it.
The inside front cover gives some guidance, and states of the spare columns that they are for "use as directed by Commanders in Chief or Air Officers Commanding ...". I think that puts them beyond "local commanders" juristiction somewhat!
By the way, if you are non-pilot aircrew do you expect sympathy from those of us who have to wrestle with the 14 columns of numbers?
The inside front cover gives some guidance, and states of the spare columns that they are for "use as directed by Commanders in Chief or Air Officers Commanding ...". I think that puts them beyond "local commanders" juristiction somewhat!
By the way, if you are non-pilot aircrew do you expect sympathy from those of us who have to wrestle with the 14 columns of numbers?
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Folks............new broom syndrome
I have been forced to change the compilation method of my flying log book on several occasions in my 17 years of flying. Everyone of those changes has been put in place by some jumped up little tw@t, from ALM Leader to Sqn Boss, who is on a promotion push and wants to be noticed
Grin and bear it and adopt the new method safe in the knowledge that at some time in the not too distant future some other idiot will be posted in and will re invent the logbook wheel
And you are correct rear crew hours are nothing more than passenger hours in the real scheme of life and for us the log book is not worth the time and effort...................apart from a quick and easy referance to the good times had by all
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
I have been forced to change the compilation method of my flying log book on several occasions in my 17 years of flying. Everyone of those changes has been put in place by some jumped up little tw@t, from ALM Leader to Sqn Boss, who is on a promotion push and wants to be noticed
Grin and bear it and adopt the new method safe in the knowledge that at some time in the not too distant future some other idiot will be posted in and will re invent the logbook wheel
And you are correct rear crew hours are nothing more than passenger hours in the real scheme of life and for us the log book is not worth the time and effort...................apart from a quick and easy referance to the good times had by all
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Log Books
The illustrious military organisation I now find myself working with decided a few months back that they would introduce a new format logbook for all pilots to use. Instead of the Day/Night P1/P2/dual format, the new logbook requires Day/Night, Capt/Other/Dual. Bl**dy Nightmare!!. I consider myself lucky that I had only 7 years flying to convert from the old P1/P2 to Capt/Other. At the time I was working with a chap who had been flying military helicopters and fixed wing for 20+ years and had 5 logbooks to audit and transfer. Yikes.
Anyway Castle_View old chap, have fun and remember there are mere mortals out there who can only dream of filling out a logbook.
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WHY ARE WE STILL FILLING LOGBOOKS IN MANUALY anyway 
Frankly the only directive I have heard of is the way my boss likes me to find out that yet again I have lost 5 minutes here or there (but never where I can find it) at the same time every month. Cant we get a nice printout on posh paper to simply clip into a posh binder??? It would certainly save monthly crankiness when everything adds up one way but not across the bottom or whatever arrrggh
Frankly the only directive I have heard of is the way my boss likes me to find out that yet again I have lost 5 minutes here or there (but never where I can find it) at the same time every month. Cant we get a nice printout on posh paper to simply clip into a posh binder??? It would certainly save monthly crankiness when everything adds up one way but not across the bottom or whatever arrrggh
A few thick dimwits find hours and minutes difficult to add up. Tough $hit! Logbook sums are hardly difficult- the trick is NEVER keep your logbook in a pile in the leader's office or wherever! ALWAYS fill it in yourself after each flight and there's no difficulty.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
ABIW said;
In MY 18 years of flying, I and my colleagues have always filled in our log books in accordance with the instructions in the front cover. In all 4 books it is quite clear how the entries should be made.
Only very recently have the 'Greens' used a seperate log book. In the past it was always the 414, and in the latest version of the Apache style book (AB640), which I now use for civi commercial flying, not only are the instructions in the front, but they state that instructions can be found in JSP318. "The spare column is reserved for use as directed by DAAVN. "
We have only once, to my knowledge in all my years, been directed to use the spare column and that was to keep a record of aircrew completing the daily flight servicing. The techs were always somehow too busy first thing in the morning!! Tail wagging the dog a bit I always thought!
Anyway, these days its just,a/c details, self, EG??, 1st day, 1st night, total, IF.
The grass IS greener.
I have been forced to change the compilation method of my flying log book on several occasions in my 17 years of flying. Everyone of those changes has been put in place by some jumped up little tw@t, from ALM Leader to Sqn Boss, who is on a promotion push and wants to be noticed
Only very recently have the 'Greens' used a seperate log book. In the past it was always the 414, and in the latest version of the Apache style book (AB640), which I now use for civi commercial flying, not only are the instructions in the front, but they state that instructions can be found in JSP318. "The spare column is reserved for use as directed by DAAVN. "
We have only once, to my knowledge in all my years, been directed to use the spare column and that was to keep a record of aircrew completing the daily flight servicing. The techs were always somehow too busy first thing in the morning!! Tail wagging the dog a bit I always thought!
Anyway, these days its just,a/c details, self, EG??, 1st day, 1st night, total, IF.
The grass IS greener.
Flying Pay per Hour
At friend of mine always had a figure in one of the spare columns in his monthly summaries, which no-one else on the Squadron had. After being questioned he stated that it was his monthly flying pay, divided by his monthly hours, which gave him an idea of how much he was earning in the air!
