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Mr C H
I was born and raised on a council estate, in a two up two down, by two parents who both left school at 14 with no qualifications. They were unskilled manual workers, and we never had such luxuries as central heating or a car. I was the first in my family to go to university. I was certainly born of a 'poor' family, and anything I have achieved in life has been the result of my own hard work and ability. No I was not from the north, but I didn't realise that was a criteria for being an officer in the armed forces! I am sure I can swop 'we had it hard in my day' stories with you any day!
Given my position in society and pay check I would no doubt be defined as 'middle class' today, as would my children. I said in my post that I was looking for a source of the right calibre of person for future IOT candidates, which are apparently lacking in society in general today. I suggested that private schools still have the right 'ethos', 'work hard play hard', etc, which they engender in their pupils. I also stated that they are no longer totally full of 'knobs', private education is no longer the preserve of the upper classes! It is for whoever is willing to pay for it, and many families do make such sacrifices because they want the best for their children! It may interest you to know that apparently there are, and always have been, private schools in the north as well!!
I was making a suggestion for the betterment of the service that for some strange reason (given the way it often treats me!) I still have an attachment and loyalty too. You can disagree with my suggestion if you wish, but kindly don't accuse me of being a 'toff'. I too was 'scum' as you put it. I for one don't deny my heritage, but then neither do I wear it as a badge!!
Edited for poor spelling!!
I was born and raised on a council estate, in a two up two down, by two parents who both left school at 14 with no qualifications. They were unskilled manual workers, and we never had such luxuries as central heating or a car. I was the first in my family to go to university. I was certainly born of a 'poor' family, and anything I have achieved in life has been the result of my own hard work and ability. No I was not from the north, but I didn't realise that was a criteria for being an officer in the armed forces! I am sure I can swop 'we had it hard in my day' stories with you any day!
Given my position in society and pay check I would no doubt be defined as 'middle class' today, as would my children. I said in my post that I was looking for a source of the right calibre of person for future IOT candidates, which are apparently lacking in society in general today. I suggested that private schools still have the right 'ethos', 'work hard play hard', etc, which they engender in their pupils. I also stated that they are no longer totally full of 'knobs', private education is no longer the preserve of the upper classes! It is for whoever is willing to pay for it, and many families do make such sacrifices because they want the best for their children! It may interest you to know that apparently there are, and always have been, private schools in the north as well!!
I was making a suggestion for the betterment of the service that for some strange reason (given the way it often treats me!) I still have an attachment and loyalty too. You can disagree with my suggestion if you wish, but kindly don't accuse me of being a 'toff'. I too was 'scum' as you put it. I for one don't deny my heritage, but then neither do I wear it as a badge!!
Edited for poor spelling!!
Last edited by Biggus; 11th Mar 2004 at 11:54.
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I don't think we'd get 'betterment' of the Services if we decided to recruit solely from a limited sector of society. I think we have (on the whole) capable individuals from the broadest spectrum of backgrounds and experiences possible. This has to be better than selecting those who happened to have a certain heritage or their parents did well for themselves.
That ethos and spirit is in those people who arrive through the gates of Cranwell. It is up to us and our lords & masters to perpetuate that spirit. I know I get precious little of it from above but do my damndest for my charges to get them on training, sport etc. We must get it right within our own walls before we look outside for an answer/solution. The steady erosion of what I joined for (AT, sport, more of a life than a job etc) are doing the damage - not who we let in. Enthusiasm is whittled away more than it is encouraged.
Yes - I KNOW anyone can pay to go to a better school - but that creates another sort of class system - cash. A scrap merchant may have as much ability as Lord Wally de Honk to send his little ones to a 'good' school, but it still excludes others who are capable. Also, paying for education does not make it better - just paid for.
I am not some class warrior here, but the tests are set at IOT and anyone can sit them. Regardless of which school, it is about ability.
That ethos and spirit is in those people who arrive through the gates of Cranwell. It is up to us and our lords & masters to perpetuate that spirit. I know I get precious little of it from above but do my damndest for my charges to get them on training, sport etc. We must get it right within our own walls before we look outside for an answer/solution. The steady erosion of what I joined for (AT, sport, more of a life than a job etc) are doing the damage - not who we let in. Enthusiasm is whittled away more than it is encouraged.
Yes - I KNOW anyone can pay to go to a better school - but that creates another sort of class system - cash. A scrap merchant may have as much ability as Lord Wally de Honk to send his little ones to a 'good' school, but it still excludes others who are capable. Also, paying for education does not make it better - just paid for.
I am not some class warrior here, but the tests are set at IOT and anyone can sit them. Regardless of which school, it is about ability.
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Biggus,
Whilst not wishing to get into the pros and cons of private/publically funded education I do think that in todays society (a more self/family orientated society than 10 - 20 years ago) and economic conditions (low unemployment) it is difficult to recruit the numbers of people who show the 'traditional officer' outlook on life. By 'traditional officer' I mean the work hard, put team before self type of attitude not the 'wouldn't be seen dead in anything but a 3 piece lounge suit' attitude.
At the end of the day the self-reliance and selflessness that seem to be the watchwords for the ideal officer are not as prevelant as they once were. Maybe that is because we all expect better standards of living and 'hardship' (financial and physical/emotional) which some would argue generate those characteristrics, are much more easily avoided in a prosperous and 'socially inclusive' country such as this.
Whilst not wishing to get into the pros and cons of private/publically funded education I do think that in todays society (a more self/family orientated society than 10 - 20 years ago) and economic conditions (low unemployment) it is difficult to recruit the numbers of people who show the 'traditional officer' outlook on life. By 'traditional officer' I mean the work hard, put team before self type of attitude not the 'wouldn't be seen dead in anything but a 3 piece lounge suit' attitude.
At the end of the day the self-reliance and selflessness that seem to be the watchwords for the ideal officer are not as prevelant as they once were. Maybe that is because we all expect better standards of living and 'hardship' (financial and physical/emotional) which some would argue generate those characteristrics, are much more easily avoided in a prosperous and 'socially inclusive' country such as this.
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Biggus:
Nice to know we're doing something right at the public schools. Nevertheless we fight a losing battle a lot of the time: CCF is regarded as grossly unfair because we expect them to look tidy, cut their hair, stand still when told to, &c &c. But there is a minority which still love it: and a few do go forward for selection.
Yes, they do have higher ambitions than the services, sadly - they can all make much more money elsewhere, and however hard we try, lots of suitable candidates are too avaricious to think of something so public-spirited for a career.
One good thing: to a man, they all resent defence cuts and think that we should be expanding, not shrinking, the RAF...
Tim
Nice to know we're doing something right at the public schools. Nevertheless we fight a losing battle a lot of the time: CCF is regarded as grossly unfair because we expect them to look tidy, cut their hair, stand still when told to, &c &c. But there is a minority which still love it: and a few do go forward for selection.
Yes, they do have higher ambitions than the services, sadly - they can all make much more money elsewhere, and however hard we try, lots of suitable candidates are too avaricious to think of something so public-spirited for a career.
One good thing: to a man, they all resent defence cuts and think that we should be expanding, not shrinking, the RAF...
Tim
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TM,
"grossly unfair because we expect them to look tidy, cut their hair, stand still when told to"
"however hard we try, lots of suitable candidates are too avaricious to think of something so public-spirited for a career"
Sound like ideal commisioning candidates to me
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
"grossly unfair because we expect them to look tidy, cut their hair, stand still when told to"
"however hard we try, lots of suitable candidates are too avaricious to think of something so public-spirited for a career"
Sound like ideal commisioning candidates to me
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
