Hoon to scrap Eurofighter
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Hoon to scrap Eurofighter
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
I doubt very much if it will be scrapped. If you want a guess as to what will happen:
Tranche 3 will be cancelled with the funds being used to integrate various precision weapons into Tranche 2. The UK will "sell" 18 of it's Tranche 2 production slots to Austria to allow delivery of it's aircraft early, allowing the UK to reduce it's tranche 2 buy to 71 aircraft, resulting in a final Typhoon procurement of 126.
Germany will reduce it's total buy from 180 to 140, leading to a revised tranche 2 buy of 96 aircraft and Italy will make a similar proportional reduction in it's buy.
A major effort will be made to keep up production by offering early production slots to Singapore and Greece of tranche 2 aircraft with a full range of precision weapons.
Tranche 3 will be cancelled with the funds being used to integrate various precision weapons into Tranche 2. The UK will "sell" 18 of it's Tranche 2 production slots to Austria to allow delivery of it's aircraft early, allowing the UK to reduce it's tranche 2 buy to 71 aircraft, resulting in a final Typhoon procurement of 126.
Germany will reduce it's total buy from 180 to 140, leading to a revised tranche 2 buy of 96 aircraft and Italy will make a similar proportional reduction in it's buy.
A major effort will be made to keep up production by offering early production slots to Singapore and Greece of tranche 2 aircraft with a full range of precision weapons.
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Experts blame EU-loving ex-Defence Secretary Michael Heseltine for lumbering us with the project.
Having just returned from sunnier climes where I mixed with somewhat more elevated company than I'm used to, I must say that I have come back with some of my Typhoon pre-conceptions 'adjusted'.
The line pilots from Singaporean FJ squadrons were an impressive bunch, well informed, well briefed and very cynical, but they seemed to come away from flying the EF rig with wide smiles and some of their doubts allayed.
Talking to those who ought to know, Captor seems to be working well, and the A-G capabilities of the aircraft don't seem as far behind as most of us had thought, though my guess is that Pirate is a less happy story.....
I'm extremely worried that New Labour's commitment to the aircraft is extremely shakey - Lord Bach quite noticeably failed to give even the most anodyne or qualified expression of support for T3, and what he did say didn't fill most of us with much confidence for T2, either. This was in stark contrast to what the German, Spanish and Italian defence ministers had to say. (And why did we send this nobody Defence Procurement tool when the other partners sent 'proper' Defence Ministers? Is Hoon too much of a liability, or won't they let anyone too high profile be seen with Typhoon?)
On the other hand, Germany seems to have come full circle. To someone who is used to the Boxheads having been the source of virtually all of the delays and cost increases on Eurofighter, their current attitude is a refreshing change. With the MiG-29s gone, and an unshakeable commitment to get rid of the F-4s and reduce the Tornado force to 82 frontline aircraft, Germany needs all 180 of its aircraft to meet its long term FJ plot, and senior EF and EADS blokes seem quietly confident that the German total is safe - and that further options are now likely - perhaps taken from other nation's shortfalls!
And while there are two RAF jets flying under Case White, and while two RAF blokes have flown solo, eight Germans have done so, and this week they'll get their seventh jet.
It's hard not to conclude that Typhoon has reached the brow of the hill, while it's equally hard to be anything like as optimistic about the poor old F-35, whose troubles seem to be multiplying.
The line pilots from Singaporean FJ squadrons were an impressive bunch, well informed, well briefed and very cynical, but they seemed to come away from flying the EF rig with wide smiles and some of their doubts allayed.
Talking to those who ought to know, Captor seems to be working well, and the A-G capabilities of the aircraft don't seem as far behind as most of us had thought, though my guess is that Pirate is a less happy story.....
I'm extremely worried that New Labour's commitment to the aircraft is extremely shakey - Lord Bach quite noticeably failed to give even the most anodyne or qualified expression of support for T3, and what he did say didn't fill most of us with much confidence for T2, either. This was in stark contrast to what the German, Spanish and Italian defence ministers had to say. (And why did we send this nobody Defence Procurement tool when the other partners sent 'proper' Defence Ministers? Is Hoon too much of a liability, or won't they let anyone too high profile be seen with Typhoon?)
On the other hand, Germany seems to have come full circle. To someone who is used to the Boxheads having been the source of virtually all of the delays and cost increases on Eurofighter, their current attitude is a refreshing change. With the MiG-29s gone, and an unshakeable commitment to get rid of the F-4s and reduce the Tornado force to 82 frontline aircraft, Germany needs all 180 of its aircraft to meet its long term FJ plot, and senior EF and EADS blokes seem quietly confident that the German total is safe - and that further options are now likely - perhaps taken from other nation's shortfalls!
And while there are two RAF jets flying under Case White, and while two RAF blokes have flown solo, eight Germans have done so, and this week they'll get their seventh jet.
It's hard not to conclude that Typhoon has reached the brow of the hill, while it's equally hard to be anything like as optimistic about the poor old F-35, whose troubles seem to be multiplying.
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I appreciate that it's probably been covered many times but just what is the latest on the Typhoon cannon.
During a visit to BWoS last year, a fairly senior engineer was heard to say that 'despite what the govt where claiming, he was pretty confident that T1, F2 or whatever, would have a cannon.' Not just ballast as we had heard.
Seemed a fairly qualified opinion around 9 months ago, wonder if much has changed...?
During a visit to BWoS last year, a fairly senior engineer was heard to say that 'despite what the govt where claiming, he was pretty confident that T1, F2 or whatever, would have a cannon.' Not just ballast as we had heard.
Seemed a fairly qualified opinion around 9 months ago, wonder if much has changed...?
Jacko,
Can you write to Adam Ingram and tell him? Poor chap doesn't appear to know that!
Presumably, the Sun doesn't understand the concept of penalty clauses...
And anyway, since when did the Typhoon not carry air-air weapons?
Another super soaraway Sun load of Bolleaux, methinks!
Can you write to Adam Ingram and tell him? Poor chap doesn't appear to know that!
Presumably, the Sun doesn't understand the concept of penalty clauses...
And anyway, since when did the Typhoon not carry air-air weapons?
Another super soaraway Sun load of Bolleaux, methinks!
Last edited by Archimedes; 2nd Mar 2004 at 21:06.
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Zoom
I can,t answer for the F-35 but, as for the GAF Mig 29,s, the Germans let the Polish AF have 23, 19 singles and 4 doubles for the princely sum of 1 Euro, apparently on a technicality gifts between Germany and Poland are not allowed as far as hardware is concerned.
I also read the "stunning" SUN article, one thing struck me, they (the Sun) quoted that the Typhoon cannot fire missiles or drop bombs, yet managed to put two pictures in its piece showing Sidewinders fitted.
I got the impression that in true tabloid tradition, that research into the article lacked somewhat, hence why was it stuck on Page 7.
Finnally, and incident occured a week or so ago when the first "pairs " pure RAF trainer sortie of the Typhoon left Warton, when over the Lake district apparently they were bounced by two F-15E's, the result of the two engagements was 2-0 to the RAF duo, apparently the Typhoon made mincemeat of the once Greatest Air Suporiety fighter in history.
Maybe a compaint was received at the MOD the same day
At least all this fuss is deflecting attention away from the MRA4
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I can,t answer for the F-35 but, as for the GAF Mig 29,s, the Germans let the Polish AF have 23, 19 singles and 4 doubles for the princely sum of 1 Euro, apparently on a technicality gifts between Germany and Poland are not allowed as far as hardware is concerned.
I also read the "stunning" SUN article, one thing struck me, they (the Sun) quoted that the Typhoon cannot fire missiles or drop bombs, yet managed to put two pictures in its piece showing Sidewinders fitted.
I got the impression that in true tabloid tradition, that research into the article lacked somewhat, hence why was it stuck on Page 7.
Finnally, and incident occured a week or so ago when the first "pairs " pure RAF trainer sortie of the Typhoon left Warton, when over the Lake district apparently they were bounced by two F-15E's, the result of the two engagements was 2-0 to the RAF duo, apparently the Typhoon made mincemeat of the once Greatest Air Suporiety fighter in history.
Maybe a compaint was received at the MOD the same day
At least all this fuss is deflecting attention away from the MRA4
.
My learned chum is quite right re: GAF MiG-29s. The boxheads had hoped that the grateful cabbage munchers would do the decent thing and splash out on a gucci upgrade and support contract with EADS, but the Polacks decided that the Russians would benefeit instead.
F-35: The aircraft's cost and weight are (still) spiralling out of control.
A decent cannon has been dropped (due to cost) and replaced by the GAU-8. The weapons bays are too small for several specific required weapons.
The radar is having major problems, but then so are several other crucial bits of kit.
It's not nice to laugh at the misfortunes of others, but JSF is pretty laughable at the mo!
F-35: The aircraft's cost and weight are (still) spiralling out of control.
A decent cannon has been dropped (due to cost) and replaced by the GAU-8. The weapons bays are too small for several specific required weapons.
The radar is having major problems, but then so are several other crucial bits of kit.
It's not nice to laugh at the misfortunes of others, but JSF is pretty laughable at the mo!
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The story was Government inspired. Witness the blame it puts on the Tories and Euroweenies.
This I think is the first of a gradual knocking campaign against the aircraft, to soften up the public as this "white elephant", as they call it, gets cut.
Interested to hear the gun is back in. Odd, air to air gunnery was a thing of the past according to defence ministers a short while ago.
Probably in the same way that the Sea Harrier was "obsolete".
This I think is the first of a gradual knocking campaign against the aircraft, to soften up the public as this "white elephant", as they call it, gets cut.
Interested to hear the gun is back in. Odd, air to air gunnery was a thing of the past according to defence ministers a short while ago.
Probably in the same way that the Sea Harrier was "obsolete".
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so greece,austria and singapore will get better aircraft than the uk?
or is the RAF going the way of the RNZAF without the maritime capability?
When JSF STOVOL is cancelled by the Kerry administration.
or is the RAF going the way of the RNZAF without the maritime capability?
When JSF STOVOL is cancelled by the Kerry administration.
If you were a Pole, you'd play off boxies and vodka boys against each other too...If the Scum thinks it "can't fire missiles or drop bombs", maybe they've hired the Indy hack who thought that 2 armoured regts were going to give up their tanks for Scorpions (yes!) in order to be lighter.....in January
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I'm surprised that anyone at Prune discusses any report on military issues by that rag. We might as well debate the accuracy of a hypothetical comment by Desperate Dan regarding the quality of the RAF's pies.....
Time to move on, methinks
Time to move on, methinks
The larff is that the Germans caused many of the delays in the Tyfun project...now the machine is late into service and they are having to lease back the 1Euro MiGs from the Polish at a huge cost..many, many thousands of euros from an ever diminishing Defence Budget..and the steurbezahler 'aint terribly chuffed about it either!
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The so called downing of the 2 F-15E by Typhoon should have happened - no questions - right?. So why is that an issue - the reports state that they (Typhoon & Mud Hen) are a generation between them. If EF-2000 is so good, why do you even compare it to F-15E. - I think that you all have something to prove here. Comparing Europe's FUTURE Jet to USAF's CURRENT Jet means that you may be still have doubts about its performance.
...by the way, F-15E would still be my choice - if I had the opportunity to do so...
...and who really cares if you have to ask Singapore's opinion - good on them for ordering a new toy. Never forget that the average reader of the Sun VOTES for the man who sends you to war!
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The so called downing of the 2 F-15E by Typhoon should have happened - no questions - right?. So why is that an issue - the reports state that they (Typhoon & Mud Hen) are a generation between them. If EF-2000 is so good, why do you even compare it to F-15E. - I think that you all have something to prove here. Comparing Europe's FUTURE Jet to USAF's CURRENT Jet means that you may be still have doubts about its performance.
...by the way, F-15E would still be my choice - if I had the opportunity to do so...
...and who really cares if you have to ask Singapore's opinion - good on them for ordering a new toy. Never forget that the average reader of the Sun VOTES for the man who sends you to war!
.