VC 10 on Route 66
KennyR - I never did a Belize run as I only did trash-and-grunt hauling in my last couple of years. Before that it was AAR and all training associated therewith! As AT trainers, we only ever did a 'quickie' Dulles, never the longer Dulles-Belize runs which the sqns kept for themslves!
Interestingly, I've just learned that the Canucks don't train their AAR co-pilots to control formations or manage AAR the way the RAF does. They just fly the ac and talk (hopefully not very often) to ATC whilst the captain moves the receivers and clears them for contact etc. Main reason being that they do so little AAR that supposedly it isn't feasible to train both pilots to the same level. It's even the case that if the captain has to leave the flight deck, the co-pilot isn't allowed to move the receivers abooot at all! The joys of multi-role...eh?
Interestingly, I've just learned that the Canucks don't train their AAR co-pilots to control formations or manage AAR the way the RAF does. They just fly the ac and talk (hopefully not very often) to ATC whilst the captain moves the receivers and clears them for contact etc. Main reason being that they do so little AAR that supposedly it isn't feasible to train both pilots to the same level. It's even the case that if the captain has to leave the flight deck, the co-pilot isn't allowed to move the receivers abooot at all! The joys of multi-role...eh?
Last edited by BEagle; 18th Feb 2004 at 20:14.
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I got a Butcher Radar "Double Magic" once for making the intersection on landing. Very light (10 Sqn) aircraft, 20 kts of headwind, planted it down on speed at the threshold and still warmed the brakes up very nicely.
Happy Days.
Happy Days.
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Beagle, I can not let your outburst re TTF arrival go by. As you said you were elsewhere at the time and would not have known that in spite of appearances the entire envelope was flown within the normal aircraft clearance, you do not have to go beyond limits if you keep speed down to make a large aircraft look impressive, it is only when speed gets out of control, as in the Victor2 at Wyton, that danger lurks.
Anyway, hand on heart and there must be one in there somewhere, have you never?
Anyway, hand on heart and there must be one in there somewhere, have you never?
Gone over the static display low and slow, then pitch, power, pitch over, pull it round, full reverse - no I haven't. That might be within the envelope, but the stress reversals were outside the SOI. Legal VRIAB, most certainly - idle power before reaching the 'break' point and a graceful climbing break to demonstrate the aircraft's elegance. Light weight V2 climbing spiral departure, again, yes.
The TTF cowboys used up a lot of fatigue on their stupid 'Top Gun' ego-tripping. But not as much as a certain captain who elected to do a flyby on departure from Abbotsford in a max wt K3, overstressing in the process. He used up 2 years normal fatigue to impress no-one. The ensuing fuel leak problems were with that ac until its next major.
Fortunately I only arrived on TTF as the last of the cowboys left. One of whom, having briefed to fly back from Alconbury to Brize at FL40 changed his mind after flap retraction and flew all the way back at 2000 ft RPS. Adding illegal low-flying, infringement of notified gliding sites and other offences to a long list of similar TTF cowboy antics.....
The TTF cowboys used up a lot of fatigue on their stupid 'Top Gun' ego-tripping. But not as much as a certain captain who elected to do a flyby on departure from Abbotsford in a max wt K3, overstressing in the process. He used up 2 years normal fatigue to impress no-one. The ensuing fuel leak problems were with that ac until its next major.
Fortunately I only arrived on TTF as the last of the cowboys left. One of whom, having briefed to fly back from Alconbury to Brize at FL40 changed his mind after flap retraction and flew all the way back at 2000 ft RPS. Adding illegal low-flying, infringement of notified gliding sites and other offences to a long list of similar TTF cowboy antics.....
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Beags, I most definitely am not going for a slanging match with you but I will strongly defend TTF as one of the best and most relaxed OCU courses of its time. It produced the style of tanking for which the VC10 fleet is justly proud, yes perhaps a little cavalier but that is why it was that good and you were as much a product of their training as any other.
No I wasn't!
My original 1983-4 TTF training was indeed thorough, professional yet relaxed. The training itself was mostly pretty good in the following years; however, in later years other non-training practices had become distinctly gash. Having been away, when I came back with a fresh pair of eyes, that was all too obvious.
However, I will agree to leave it at that.
My original 1983-4 TTF training was indeed thorough, professional yet relaxed. The training itself was mostly pretty good in the following years; however, in later years other non-training practices had become distinctly gash. Having been away, when I came back with a fresh pair of eyes, that was all too obvious.
However, I will agree to leave it at that.
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Rise,Peak and Fall? of VC10 OCU or TTF
Gents, some interesting points, without doubt a great topic for all to contribute to and comment on. So why not take it from the back pages of this thread on New Mexico and start a new Thread......TTF we're great! or VC10 Ocu we Knew what we were doing - where did it all go wrong. But whatever maybe not here...
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There doesn't seem to be many techies on this site (RAF) but New Mexico was one of my fairly regular runs as a GE. We had to make a bit of noise out of there, empty or not. The only prob was we kept on going u/s there
(Midnight Rodeo was one good reason)
(Midnight Rodeo was one good reason)
