Ejection seats
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Ejections
Not sure if this is the right forum, but a tale of ejections nonetheless. Mid 70's I was bumbling around 8 Sqn Shacks as a nav. Another chum on the sqn with me had a truly remarkable story.
Previously he had been posted to Sea Vixens as an exchange looker and was on HMS Eagle. One day in the Moray Firth he was in the coal-hole of the venerable machine, waiting to catapult off the deck. Just as the thing throws him and his driver forward and the point of no return is in his rear-view mirror, the noisy things behind him stop making a noise and things look distinctly dicey. The Vixen rolls to port, he ejects but sadly his pilot does not survive. Scooped out of the drink, taken to hospital for check-ups, it transpired he had inadvertently bounced across the sea and in the process crushed a few vertebrae. "No flying for 6 months for you, Sunshine, go off to Yeovilton and help the lads out there"
6 months to the day after his involuntary departure courtesy of MB, he gets togged up for his famil flight. No catapults at Yeovilton, just loads of concrete and bags of time to get the noisy things up to required speed for safe transition from ground to air - no problem. Pairs take-off, No 1 in fine form, No 2, my chum, suddenly hears a familair silence from behind him, both engines withdraw their labour and he is faced with a rapid egress at about 1000', still within the boundary of the airfield. The crash wagons had been alerted and the two intrepid chaps used their SARBES to assist the red machines in locating them. Meanwhile No 1 is orbiting the two canopies and yelling over Tower frequency, "No, not that way you stupid driver, the NEXT hedge etc, etc....."
Must have made an interesting entry in the logbook. 2 consecutive take-offs, but no associated landings!
The passage of time might well have blurred my memory, but if anyone can substantiate these events, I'd appreciate it. The guy was called Geoff Xxxxx, I think and he was subsequently not allowed to fly ejector seats again. I remember visiting his quarters and seeing a wedding picture of his where the groom was taller than the bride, which wasn't how it was when I knew him
If he is till around and is reading this my apologies for bringing it up, but it has stuck in my memory all this time.
Previously he had been posted to Sea Vixens as an exchange looker and was on HMS Eagle. One day in the Moray Firth he was in the coal-hole of the venerable machine, waiting to catapult off the deck. Just as the thing throws him and his driver forward and the point of no return is in his rear-view mirror, the noisy things behind him stop making a noise and things look distinctly dicey. The Vixen rolls to port, he ejects but sadly his pilot does not survive. Scooped out of the drink, taken to hospital for check-ups, it transpired he had inadvertently bounced across the sea and in the process crushed a few vertebrae. "No flying for 6 months for you, Sunshine, go off to Yeovilton and help the lads out there"
6 months to the day after his involuntary departure courtesy of MB, he gets togged up for his famil flight. No catapults at Yeovilton, just loads of concrete and bags of time to get the noisy things up to required speed for safe transition from ground to air - no problem. Pairs take-off, No 1 in fine form, No 2, my chum, suddenly hears a familair silence from behind him, both engines withdraw their labour and he is faced with a rapid egress at about 1000', still within the boundary of the airfield. The crash wagons had been alerted and the two intrepid chaps used their SARBES to assist the red machines in locating them. Meanwhile No 1 is orbiting the two canopies and yelling over Tower frequency, "No, not that way you stupid driver, the NEXT hedge etc, etc....."
Must have made an interesting entry in the logbook. 2 consecutive take-offs, but no associated landings!
The passage of time might well have blurred my memory, but if anyone can substantiate these events, I'd appreciate it. The guy was called Geoff Xxxxx, I think and he was subsequently not allowed to fly ejector seats again. I remember visiting his quarters and seeing a wedding picture of his where the groom was taller than the bride, which wasn't how it was when I knew him
If he is till around and is reading this my apologies for bringing it up, but it has stuck in my memory all this time.
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One of the few photos I have from my time as a junior officer is of my head between my knees as the Ejection Seat Training Rig at N Luffenham (autumn '82) went through about 15" of travel. As Reichman stated, it did seem very perilous swaying about at the top whilst waiting to be winched down!
Not an unpleasant experience but the acceleration was phenomenal...
Stik
Not an unpleasant experience but the acceleration was phenomenal...
Stik
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johnfairr,
The Geoff in question was on 10 Sqn a few years ago. He related the stories to me.
IIRC the first was caused by the aircraft over rotating after launch. The second was an engine fire or fuel leak (can't remember which) which ended up with the aircraft exploding just after the crew had ejected. Geoff landed in a pub car park and was somewhat "merry" by the time the SAR helo came to pick him up.
The Geoff in question was on 10 Sqn a few years ago. He related the stories to me.
IIRC the first was caused by the aircraft over rotating after launch. The second was an engine fire or fuel leak (can't remember which) which ended up with the aircraft exploding just after the crew had ejected. Geoff landed in a pub car park and was somewhat "merry" by the time the SAR helo came to pick him up.
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Reichman,
Many thanks for the confirmation, good to know the grey cells are still working after all those years. Must have been a hairy couple of rides for him and no wonder he flew more sedate aeroplanes afterwards. I think that in the late 60s and early 70s we were losing more Sea Vixens than the Luftwaffe were losing 104s. They knew the Starfighter as the widowmaker, but not an inkling of that for the Sea Vixen from Fleet Streets' finest. Not quite the same these days....
Many thanks for the confirmation, good to know the grey cells are still working after all those years. Must have been a hairy couple of rides for him and no wonder he flew more sedate aeroplanes afterwards. I think that in the late 60s and early 70s we were losing more Sea Vixens than the Luftwaffe were losing 104s. They knew the Starfighter as the widowmaker, but not an inkling of that for the Sea Vixen from Fleet Streets' finest. Not quite the same these days....
Thread Starter
Wow! 4 responses in a day. Thanks for that chaps.
I recently heard of a rear gunner on a B52 whos intercom cable came adrift. On replugging said cable he heard something akin to "....the've lost it and were going in..."which apparently had nothing to do with the aircraft they were flying in. So he ejected.
No worries with that, but he did it a second time in almost similar circumstances...Hmm.
Anyone know of any other inadvertant ejections.
This is an old story but verified:
Date: Late 1950's
Place: RAF Odiham, England.
Webmaster's note: There might be just a huge amount of Urban Myth about this one!
Javelin taxiing out for take-off.
One hunter on take-off, one on finals, one on down-wind for finals.
Javelin engine fire (not unusual) but unseen by crew.
Air Traffic Controller (novice, in panic) calls 'you are on fire' or words to that effect.
Three Hunter pilots eject un-necessarily and Javelin crew taxi on oblivious until it becomes obvious, too late, that the panic applies to them, then luckily scrabble out unhurt, unfortunately the RAF are four aircraft down.
THIS STORY WAS FEATURED ON THE SITE FOR SOME 3 YEARS. THEN OUT OF THE BLUE, THE WEBMASTER RECEIVED THE FOLLOWING BY E MAIL:
On your site you have the story of a Javelin catching fire, followed by a loose Air Traffic call, followed by some Hunter jocks parting company with their machines which promptly reverted to kit form!
There is an entry relating to this in Colin Cumming’s book “To fly no more” – RAF accidents 1954-1958. In it he notes that, on 25th May 1957 at RAF Horsham St Faith, Javelin Mk4 XA732, when taxiing, had a fuel tank attachment fail causing the tank to drag on the ground. As the Javelin’s favourite habit was catching fire, this one also kept to the script and wrote itself off; thus the ATC call.
Two Hunter Mk4 aircraft of 74 Squadron reacted to the ATC call; both aircraft were written off but no one died. XE661 abandoned take off, overshot the runway and went through a hedge into a field. XE662 was in the circuit and the pilot tried to set it down pronto but made a mess of it (probably not helped by the undoubted Chinese Writing in his underpants!). He bounced hard, the seat fired (injuring his arm) and the Hunter (now without its driver) finished its career demolishing the wall of an airmans’ block.
Two Gnats (XR992 and XR995) were lost on 16th December 1969 due to an ATC call “your on fire”. Cumming’s book notes them to be CFS aircraft but my memory says Red Arrows; both units were at Kemble. All four crew survived.
I recently heard of a rear gunner on a B52 whos intercom cable came adrift. On replugging said cable he heard something akin to "....the've lost it and were going in..."which apparently had nothing to do with the aircraft they were flying in. So he ejected.
No worries with that, but he did it a second time in almost similar circumstances...Hmm.
Anyone know of any other inadvertant ejections.
This is an old story but verified:
Date: Late 1950's
Place: RAF Odiham, England.
Webmaster's note: There might be just a huge amount of Urban Myth about this one!
Javelin taxiing out for take-off.
One hunter on take-off, one on finals, one on down-wind for finals.
Javelin engine fire (not unusual) but unseen by crew.
Air Traffic Controller (novice, in panic) calls 'you are on fire' or words to that effect.
Three Hunter pilots eject un-necessarily and Javelin crew taxi on oblivious until it becomes obvious, too late, that the panic applies to them, then luckily scrabble out unhurt, unfortunately the RAF are four aircraft down.
THIS STORY WAS FEATURED ON THE SITE FOR SOME 3 YEARS. THEN OUT OF THE BLUE, THE WEBMASTER RECEIVED THE FOLLOWING BY E MAIL:
On your site you have the story of a Javelin catching fire, followed by a loose Air Traffic call, followed by some Hunter jocks parting company with their machines which promptly reverted to kit form!
There is an entry relating to this in Colin Cumming’s book “To fly no more” – RAF accidents 1954-1958. In it he notes that, on 25th May 1957 at RAF Horsham St Faith, Javelin Mk4 XA732, when taxiing, had a fuel tank attachment fail causing the tank to drag on the ground. As the Javelin’s favourite habit was catching fire, this one also kept to the script and wrote itself off; thus the ATC call.
Two Hunter Mk4 aircraft of 74 Squadron reacted to the ATC call; both aircraft were written off but no one died. XE661 abandoned take off, overshot the runway and went through a hedge into a field. XE662 was in the circuit and the pilot tried to set it down pronto but made a mess of it (probably not helped by the undoubted Chinese Writing in his underpants!). He bounced hard, the seat fired (injuring his arm) and the Hunter (now without its driver) finished its career demolishing the wall of an airmans’ block.
Two Gnats (XR992 and XR995) were lost on 16th December 1969 due to an ATC call “your on fire”. Cumming’s book notes them to be CFS aircraft but my memory says Red Arrows; both units were at Kemble. All four crew survived.
Wasn't that Gnat accident the reason for ALWAYS pre-fixing numbers with formation callsigns? No "You're on fire" being confused with "Four, on fire" etc.
A Vixen CO confirmed to me in about 1966 that the Vixen loss rate was indeed worse than the F104 rate. But I had a super trip as a CCF Cpl in the coal-hole of a Vixen - only the RN could pull such strings, the RAF wouldn't even give me a Chipmunk AEF trip!
I understand that Pusser banned the use of the words "Oh $hit" in the air after some Vixen looker confused them with the command "Eject!".......?
A Vixen CO confirmed to me in about 1966 that the Vixen loss rate was indeed worse than the F104 rate. But I had a super trip as a CCF Cpl in the coal-hole of a Vixen - only the RN could pull such strings, the RAF wouldn't even give me a Chipmunk AEF trip!
I understand that Pusser banned the use of the words "Oh $hit" in the air after some Vixen looker confused them with the command "Eject!".......?
Thread Starter
Indeed Beags, here is the story:
A navy mate described a case of mis-communication. Allegedly a Sea Vixen mate was involved in some fishy fun with his jet when something didn't go as he'd intended. "Oh $hit" quoth he. Wherupon there was a load bang from the coal hole and he was astonished to see his looker (for all our non Royal Navy fans = Observer) disappearing upwards courtesy of Martin Baker! Equally perplexed was the observer, as he saw one of HM's Vixens pootling happily along with just the awkward sight of a bang seat rod poking up into the slipstream! There was a wonderful cartoon which showed the looker suspended under his parachute musing "$hit - I thought he said 'Eject'! No he didn't - he said 'Oh $hit'. OH $HIT!"
A navy mate described a case of mis-communication. Allegedly a Sea Vixen mate was involved in some fishy fun with his jet when something didn't go as he'd intended. "Oh $hit" quoth he. Wherupon there was a load bang from the coal hole and he was astonished to see his looker (for all our non Royal Navy fans = Observer) disappearing upwards courtesy of Martin Baker! Equally perplexed was the observer, as he saw one of HM's Vixens pootling happily along with just the awkward sight of a bang seat rod poking up into the slipstream! There was a wonderful cartoon which showed the looker suspended under his parachute musing "$hit - I thought he said 'Eject'! No he didn't - he said 'Oh $hit'. OH $HIT!"
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Tony Draper,
The incident you refer to was the Malaysian or Thai AF's. I believe it was a Hawk ejection seat, and the maintainer was demoing the use of the "live" seat to an audience inside the hangar.
The incident you refer to was the Malaysian or Thai AF's. I believe it was a Hawk ejection seat, and the maintainer was demoing the use of the "live" seat to an audience inside the hangar.
Back in the early 90's there was a student banged out of a PC9 in Saudi. (KFAA 22nd Sqn)
The local students were not known to strap in very tightly...probably as a function of their affection for loose flowing gowns for clothing.
This was an early trip in the lads training and the IP (yes I know he was really a QFI ) decided to show his bloggs a roll and pull through as a means of rapidly losing height.
Said IP rolls...
hmmm a tad too fast ..
oh well a little negative G will solve that
Bloggs thinks he is about to fall out of his seat and grabs the nearest HANDLE to hang on to
Result
Bloggs floating down
IP now recovering PC9 from UA with front seat rail sticking up through the shattered canopy and vibrating like bejesus.
(Command ejection was turned OFF)
The funniest sight was after landing the canopy wouldn't open as it had this great pole sticking thru it. Bring on one very large sledge hammer to pound the seat pole back to it's rightful place and allow a very shaken IP to exit.
Anyone got any more info on the Strikemaster in the 80's where the student had an engine failure, went to eject but didn't have the strength (what happened to adrenalin??) to pull the handle.He crash landed in the desert with the handle flopping in his lap and walked away! Inshallah indeed
The local students were not known to strap in very tightly...probably as a function of their affection for loose flowing gowns for clothing.
This was an early trip in the lads training and the IP (yes I know he was really a QFI
) decided to show his bloggs a roll and pull through as a means of rapidly losing height.Said IP rolls...
hmmm a tad too fast ..
oh well a little negative G will solve that
Bloggs thinks he is about to fall out of his seat and grabs the nearest HANDLE to hang on to
Result
Bloggs floating down
IP now recovering PC9 from UA with front seat rail sticking up through the shattered canopy and vibrating like bejesus.
(Command ejection was turned OFF)
The funniest sight was after landing the canopy wouldn't open as it had this great pole sticking thru it. Bring on one very large sledge hammer to pound the seat pole back to it's rightful place and allow a very shaken IP to exit.
Anyone got any more info on the Strikemaster in the 80's where the student had an engine failure, went to eject but didn't have the strength (what happened to adrenalin??) to pull the handle.He crash landed in the desert with the handle flopping in his lap and walked away! Inshallah indeed
A classic for those that haven't seen it before...
"This photo shows the final seconds of Lightning F1 XG332, which crashed while on approach to Hatfield on 13th September 1962."
Full gen here...
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...r&pagenumber=1
LXGB
"This photo shows the final seconds of Lightning F1 XG332, which crashed while on approach to Hatfield on 13th September 1962."
Full gen here...
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...r&pagenumber=1
LXGB
Last edited by LXGB; 30th Mar 2004 at 11:36.
I understand that Pusser banned the use of the words "Oh $hit" in the air after some Vixen looker confused them with the command "Eject!".......?
[IIRC, the fact that the aircraft was taking off with flaps down (deemed unecessary by the OCU but imposed from on high) meant that the re-heat failure ensured that the nose wheel wouldn't lift anyway]
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Archi - the flaps were always down (needed!) for take-off, the problem was that No 1 burner (top) lit fully, but No2 nozzle opened fully but did not light and stayed fully open which equalled around 40% less cold thrust on No2, resulting nose-down pitch prevented rotation and the resulting attempt on the world land-speed record removed the barrier and frightened British Rail, as I recall. Two great characters invloved, one I know is sadly now deceased, the other who was my conversion QFI I have no trace of. I airtested the aircraft SEVERAL months later.
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A bit of a mixed thread here I'm afraid---some seat related aspects though.
In 71 / 72--I think-- a Sea Vixen landed at Valley with about 4 ft of the upper surface of the RH mainplane peeled up--looked like it had been attacked with a chainsaw and how the thing remained airborne was a miracle. I understood that it had hit something very solid on Eagle---but never found out what. Anybody shed any light at all please?.
As for seats, I understand the boys in ASF at Bruggen, about the same time, maybe a couple of years later, also sent a seat skywards from an F-4--leaving a nice dent in the girders en-route !...
With regard to live ejections--and this story could be another "tale"--I understand the Nav who ejected from a Bruggen F-4 around ( around 1975 ) landed near to the Roermond to Elmpt road---and flagged down the first BFG ( as was ) vehicle. This was being driven by a grunts wife who glibly informed said Nav that "she was going shopping at Rhine D !"--and left him there !. The story was going round at the time and seemed to have a basis of fact. The a/c in question had an uncontained No1 engine failure and crashed near Maasbree--in land that was duly classified by the Dutch as "prime agricultural land"--whereas primeval swamp would have been more accurate!.
In 71 / 72--I think-- a Sea Vixen landed at Valley with about 4 ft of the upper surface of the RH mainplane peeled up--looked like it had been attacked with a chainsaw and how the thing remained airborne was a miracle. I understood that it had hit something very solid on Eagle---but never found out what. Anybody shed any light at all please?.
As for seats, I understand the boys in ASF at Bruggen, about the same time, maybe a couple of years later, also sent a seat skywards from an F-4--leaving a nice dent in the girders en-route !...
With regard to live ejections--and this story could be another "tale"--I understand the Nav who ejected from a Bruggen F-4 around ( around 1975 ) landed near to the Roermond to Elmpt road---and flagged down the first BFG ( as was ) vehicle. This was being driven by a grunts wife who glibly informed said Nav that "she was going shopping at Rhine D !"--and left him there !. The story was going round at the time and seemed to have a basis of fact. The a/c in question had an uncontained No1 engine failure and crashed near Maasbree--in land that was duly classified by the Dutch as "prime agricultural land"--whereas primeval swamp would have been more accurate!.
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On the subject of inadvertent ejections...I seem to remember a Tornado GR1 in the mid-late 80s (reasonably shiny in those days) flying around Germany (I think). It was early days in the assessment of the real effects of HIRTAs on the flight control software. The Nav was heads-in looking at the radar (no surprises there) when the pilot saw an A-10 Thunderbolt in rather close proximity. He immediately manoeuvered violently to avoid the said 'Hog' and issued a loud expletive...the Nav immediately thought that they had had an uncommanded flying control input caused by the close proximity of a HIRTA and banged them both out....ouch!!
Anyone remember the full details?
Anyone remember the full details?
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Recall the day that an ex Lightning mate, inadvertantly pulled the manual separation handle in his Tornado F3.
Shot the bolt (quite literally) thru the canopy taking the drogue with it. It also fires the strap cutters, so he lifted and was about to do the 300kt tail hug when he was able to jam his legs under the front and hold himself in the mighty fin. Finally recovered the ac and landed safely, with sore legs and a bruised ego. Navigator had little choice but to follow, as chute and chords blocked his ejection path.
Hawk version of same seat has ejection handle, man sep interlock, never quite understood why the tornado didn't.
P.S. Anybody who has heard the pilots version will know that infact he didn't pull the handle but was the victim of a once in a lifetime technical malfunction that caused the handle to rise at the same time as he pulled the emergency oxygen handle which by chance was the same colour but on the other side of the seat (but then again he always claimed that his granny flew the TSR2 and his dad was the first tiger moth pilot to orbit the moon).
Shot the bolt (quite literally) thru the canopy taking the drogue with it. It also fires the strap cutters, so he lifted and was about to do the 300kt tail hug when he was able to jam his legs under the front and hold himself in the mighty fin. Finally recovered the ac and landed safely, with sore legs and a bruised ego. Navigator had little choice but to follow, as chute and chords blocked his ejection path.
Hawk version of same seat has ejection handle, man sep interlock, never quite understood why the tornado didn't.
P.S. Anybody who has heard the pilots version will know that infact he didn't pull the handle but was the victim of a once in a lifetime technical malfunction that caused the handle to rise at the same time as he pulled the emergency oxygen handle which by chance was the same colour but on the other side of the seat (but then again he always claimed that his granny flew the TSR2 and his dad was the first tiger moth pilot to orbit the moon).