New RAF Recruitment Ad.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: here and there
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maple 01 you I think are missing the point entirely.
Firstly FYI I have a very good memory and appreciate exactly what I was like at 17 thanks, however the fact that I made SNCO in TG9 (OSM/FOM) in less than 9 years tells me that I was doing something right!
When I was a lad I questioned pretty much everything and now I encourage my troops to do the same. By doing this we ensure that mistakes are minimised and lessons are learnt etc, etc.
H&S, COSSH etc are nothing more than industry standards that are LAW and even the MoD cannot escape much of that, also your recollections of daring do impress no one, least of all me. Likewise this macho drinking culture that prevails in the military is to my mind immature and representative of a neanderthal mindset that has no place in the modern world. However I recommend that you read a few books on RAF/RFC history, I think you'll find that there are some stark similarities in attitude and outlook back in 1917 or 1943 to today. But I return to that attribute 'military Bearing' that is so obviously missing from the modern RAF. Although Trenchard set the RFC aside from the rest of the Army because it was a technical Service, it didn't mean that he allowed everything to be so different that all aspects of militaryness were diluted.
No, you continue to skirt the core issue, you believe that because you think society is different from your youth enormous allowances must be made to accommodate this new culture and that those who don't are long in the tooth dinosaurs. Think again matey. Yes the Services are representative of todays' culture, but that must not mean that we have to concede to everything, otherwise when, heaven forbid we do engage in a major conflict, we won't have the people with the right robust outlook. Some of the RAF people that I have encountered on austere OOA dets have made me weep and hang my head in shame. I go back to an earlier comment, what I am getting now are civilians in uniform and to me this is a concession to modern society too far.
In my trade the quality of airman is certainly getting poorer, below average trade and service knowledge, no interest in the RAF or aviation, an unwillingness to learn any more than they feel is necessary, virtually no dedication or devotion to duty and so on. You might find that these requirements are mirrored exactly in civvy street so I ask the question, are we really getting the best of what is out there as some fondly imagine or simply the best of the worst? Or put another way, are we really getting the misfits of society!
Although it must be said that there are an awful lot of extraodinarily weak JNCO/SNCOs/JO doing the rounds that, I believe, are contributing directly to many of the problems outlined above. But that is an issue outside the scope of this discussion.
Firstly FYI I have a very good memory and appreciate exactly what I was like at 17 thanks, however the fact that I made SNCO in TG9 (OSM/FOM) in less than 9 years tells me that I was doing something right!
When I was a lad I questioned pretty much everything and now I encourage my troops to do the same. By doing this we ensure that mistakes are minimised and lessons are learnt etc, etc.
H&S, COSSH etc are nothing more than industry standards that are LAW and even the MoD cannot escape much of that, also your recollections of daring do impress no one, least of all me. Likewise this macho drinking culture that prevails in the military is to my mind immature and representative of a neanderthal mindset that has no place in the modern world. However I recommend that you read a few books on RAF/RFC history, I think you'll find that there are some stark similarities in attitude and outlook back in 1917 or 1943 to today. But I return to that attribute 'military Bearing' that is so obviously missing from the modern RAF. Although Trenchard set the RFC aside from the rest of the Army because it was a technical Service, it didn't mean that he allowed everything to be so different that all aspects of militaryness were diluted.
No, you continue to skirt the core issue, you believe that because you think society is different from your youth enormous allowances must be made to accommodate this new culture and that those who don't are long in the tooth dinosaurs. Think again matey. Yes the Services are representative of todays' culture, but that must not mean that we have to concede to everything, otherwise when, heaven forbid we do engage in a major conflict, we won't have the people with the right robust outlook. Some of the RAF people that I have encountered on austere OOA dets have made me weep and hang my head in shame. I go back to an earlier comment, what I am getting now are civilians in uniform and to me this is a concession to modern society too far.
In my trade the quality of airman is certainly getting poorer, below average trade and service knowledge, no interest in the RAF or aviation, an unwillingness to learn any more than they feel is necessary, virtually no dedication or devotion to duty and so on. You might find that these requirements are mirrored exactly in civvy street so I ask the question, are we really getting the best of what is out there as some fondly imagine or simply the best of the worst? Or put another way, are we really getting the misfits of society!
Although it must be said that there are an awful lot of extraodinarily weak JNCO/SNCOs/JO doing the rounds that, I believe, are contributing directly to many of the problems outlined above. But that is an issue outside the scope of this discussion.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: World
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interestingly the RM advert showing in cinemas makes it quite clear what the training is like and finishes with '99.99% need not apply'. The new RAF ad perhaps should finish with 00.01% need not apply.
Don't think the new ad would work with me, but I wasn't influenced by ads. Personally I don't think that the RAF is looking for a standard recruit and that is the problem. So many different trades and jobs require so many different styles, but I don't remember any of them being geared at the lovey dovey image in the new ad.
When I tried to treat junior ranks in the style shown I was taken aside by OCAdmin and told not to do any such thing. I was b@llocked as a junior officer for trying to help out an airman with very severe personal problems. Plus ca change.
Don't think the new ad would work with me, but I wasn't influenced by ads. Personally I don't think that the RAF is looking for a standard recruit and that is the problem. So many different trades and jobs require so many different styles, but I don't remember any of them being geared at the lovey dovey image in the new ad.
When I tried to treat junior ranks in the style shown I was taken aside by OCAdmin and told not to do any such thing. I was b@llocked as a junior officer for trying to help out an airman with very severe personal problems. Plus ca change.
I haven't actually seen the ad in question, not a big TV person, so I can't comment specifically. However, it will be ironic, and another waste of taxpayers money, if, after the defence review in April, we end up making people redundant after this burst of recruiting!!!
TAC Int Bloke
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 975
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Firstly FYI I have a very good memory and appreciate exactly what I was like at 17 thanks, however the fact that I made SNCO in TG9 (OSM/FOM) in less than 9 years tells me that I was doing something right!
No, you continue to skirt the core issue,
Then someone slagged off the juniors - are all your guys cr@p? Most of mine are switched-on cookies.
(Banter alert) TG9 - isn't that like TG12, only not as bright....?
your recollections of daring do impress no one, least of all me.
Likewise this macho drinking culture that prevails in the military is to my mind immature and representative of a Neanderthal mindset that has no place in the modern world.
Trenchard set the RFC aside from the rest of the Army because it was a technical Service, it didn't mean that he allowed everything to be so different that all aspects of militaryness were diluted.
. Just to clarify my position a little, I was working on the assumption that the accusation
The majority of junior SAC's in the Service today, in my opinion, are frankly a waste of skin.
Most of the guys (PC, covers Male and Female) doing the job day-to-day do the best they can
On the subject of unmilitaryness:
I remember a series of letters in the RAF news during the first Gulf War in response to a photo of 'plumbers' which showed them working their wotzits off in a mixture of dress, civilian, mil, sunglasses, bandanas etc. One of the 'Old brigade' wrote in complaining about their lack of 'militaryness'.
Two weeks later an ex Eng WO from the Desert Air Force (1943)
wrote in to say that in his day no-one gave a toss what you looked like as long as the job was done. An extreme case I grant you. Job first, military bull$hit second.
So no more impromptu history lessons please!
Regards
-nick
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: where should i be today????
Age: 57
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just logged on and saw this thread.
The advert is Bo!!##**s, what a waste of money. Could it be time to renew the IIP certification 'cause the advert sure as hell won't recruit anyone
The advert is Bo!!##**s, what a waste of money. Could it be time to renew the IIP certification 'cause the advert sure as hell won't recruit anyone
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Spanish Riviera
Posts: 637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Two points:
Firstly, I agree that the advert is not exactly inspiring. Did we actually PAY someone to come up with that load of nonsense?
Secondly, following on from the DH98/Maple 01 spat, I personally don't think the quality of basic recruits has changed noticeably. My view is that the quality of leadership and direction we give these young people (at all levels from JNCO to senior officer) has degraded. This is why we are getting "poor" airmen.
Firstly, I agree that the advert is not exactly inspiring. Did we actually PAY someone to come up with that load of nonsense?
Secondly, following on from the DH98/Maple 01 spat, I personally don't think the quality of basic recruits has changed noticeably. My view is that the quality of leadership and direction we give these young people (at all levels from JNCO to senior officer) has degraded. This is why we are getting "poor" airmen.
WBS
Are you sure the standards have slipped? Or could it be that the NCO's and above do not have the same set of leadership and management tools to work with? I have been lucky enough to have worked for a lot of people who knew how to use both carrot and stick For what it's worth now, I believe that the carrot is old and wrinkly and the stick is only an inch long. I've also worked for plenty that didn't know what a carrot is
Mrs insty saw the ad and she called it "A crock of sh1te" she's cleverer than me you see
Are you sure the standards have slipped? Or could it be that the NCO's and above do not have the same set of leadership and management tools to work with? I have been lucky enough to have worked for a lot of people who knew how to use both carrot and stick For what it's worth now, I believe that the carrot is old and wrinkly and the stick is only an inch long. I've also worked for plenty that didn't know what a carrot is
Mrs insty saw the ad and she called it "A crock of sh1te" she's cleverer than me you see
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: wherever
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can anybody out there enlighten us as to how much this rubbish cost?
I cannot imagine any connection between the rediculous scenario portrayed and a fighting force where you have to be prepared to go or to send folk to their death.
Maybe I'm missing some subtle irony in the message but I've never seen a more inappropriate advert for the Armed Forces.
After 20 years of service I've never had as much as a plaster for the stab wounds in my back or my injuries from the misplaced cricket bat.
I cannot imagine any connection between the rediculous scenario portrayed and a fighting force where you have to be prepared to go or to send folk to their death.
Maybe I'm missing some subtle irony in the message but I've never seen a more inappropriate advert for the Armed Forces.
After 20 years of service I've never had as much as a plaster for the stab wounds in my back or my injuries from the misplaced cricket bat.
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scruffy and Proud...
The RAF has always been a bunch of civilians in uniform. It was so in the forties, it was thus in the sixties and from what is said here it still is, thank goodness. The RAF has always done its job as required and the fact that being studiously un-military is part of its traditional make-up is of no reflection upon its capability.
Check out these examples. Admittedly most of them are taken while on detachments but then the 'V' Force were always required to smarten up when going abroad on detachment.
Luqa Goose Bay 32 Squadron Drill Squad Butterworth
These bunches of scruffs were Britain's main defence against the Red Terror back in the sixties. Despite our appearance we could and would have deep-fried the Soviet Union without batting an eyelid, no messing, at just under two minutes notice.
So no insulting the scruffs. Being military isn't all about creased trousers, and shiny boots, nor is it about crisp orders, straight backs and stiff upper lips. Its about getting the job done in any conditions, anywhere, anytime. A bit like civilian life actually...
**************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
Check out these examples. Admittedly most of them are taken while on detachments but then the 'V' Force were always required to smarten up when going abroad on detachment.
Luqa Goose Bay 32 Squadron Drill Squad Butterworth
These bunches of scruffs were Britain's main defence against the Red Terror back in the sixties. Despite our appearance we could and would have deep-fried the Soviet Union without batting an eyelid, no messing, at just under two minutes notice.
So no insulting the scruffs. Being military isn't all about creased trousers, and shiny boots, nor is it about crisp orders, straight backs and stiff upper lips. Its about getting the job done in any conditions, anywhere, anytime. A bit like civilian life actually...
**************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Down South
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DH98
If you think the quality of the recruits leaving Shawbury is a problem, then why not apply for a post there? Everyone goes on about the standard that leaves there. Wish people like you would either put up or shut up. If you are that good on the front line, give some of it back to the trade instead of running off and PVRing.
The instructors at Shawbury work hard, especially at JNCO level, get up there and have a look what goes on. Its not an easy job, but takes more skill than compiling a stationary order.
Hope none of your juniors read this, must be nice for them to know that their "boss" thinks of them as "misfits of society". Wow, I would follow you to the bar any day, no maybe I wouldnt especially if you are wearing your nice pink slacks
A recent comment that came from my trade training establishment (FOTF - TG9 FOA/FOA ATC) was that the recruits are coming from Halton as ill disciplined and showing no respect for rank or authority, strange really as Shawbury is a training establishment and therefore is able to instill these attributes, instead all the staff do is bleat!
The instructors at Shawbury work hard, especially at JNCO level, get up there and have a look what goes on. Its not an easy job, but takes more skill than compiling a stationary order.
Hope none of your juniors read this, must be nice for them to know that their "boss" thinks of them as "misfits of society". Wow, I would follow you to the bar any day, no maybe I wouldnt especially if you are wearing your nice pink slacks
Last edited by DodgyOpsGuy; 6th Jan 2004 at 21:31.
Priceless ad.
PR marketing firm will have researched the youngsters of today and come up with a product that would guarantee the best outcome. In other words - the ad is deemed correct for the aspirations of today's yoof. Or charge a fortune and not actually spend it on the research/imagination department.
Money well spent - it was either spend money on an ad that insults the cadre of folk already Serving or procure another useless IT project.
Bollax to all that.
PR marketing firm will have researched the youngsters of today and come up with a product that would guarantee the best outcome. In other words - the ad is deemed correct for the aspirations of today's yoof. Or charge a fortune and not actually spend it on the research/imagination department.
Money well spent - it was either spend money on an ad that insults the cadre of folk already Serving or procure another useless IT project.
Bollax to all that.
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nanook of the North eh, Mike? They must have smartened up a lot since my time then. Any of our Crew Chiefs would have cut the finger off rather than f8ck around trying to get a splinter out. Some of them might even have managed to get the correct finger.too!
Actually I was responding to those who were whingeing about lack of discipline. Apart from the 3 years at Aylesbury Boot Camp, discipline isn't a word that I associate with the air force that taught me all I know about keeping piles of scrap aluminium off the ground. No discipline apart from tradesmanship and pride in the job that is.
**************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
Actually I was responding to those who were whingeing about lack of discipline. Apart from the 3 years at Aylesbury Boot Camp, discipline isn't a word that I associate with the air force that taught me all I know about keeping piles of scrap aluminium off the ground. No discipline apart from tradesmanship and pride in the job that is.
**************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kindom
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you think the quality of the recruits leaving Shawbury is a problem, then why not apply for a post there? Everyone goes on about the standard that leaves there. Wish people like you would either put up or shut up. If you are that good on the front line, give some of it back to the trade instead of running off and PVRing.
The instructors at Shawbury work hard, especially at JNCO level, get up there and have a look what goes on. Its not an easy job, but takes more skill than compiling a stationary order.
Hope none of your juniors read this, must be nice for them to know that their "boss" thinks of them as "misfits of society".
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cloudbase
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EESDL
My daughter and her friend (squeaky new air cadet) saw the ad for the first time last night. Reaction? "What was that about?" and "OK, now I'm confused, was that the RAF?"
Well worth the ad agency fees...
...the ad is deemed correct for the aspirations of today's yoof.
Well worth the ad agency fees...
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Beags, Your ‘Even 'Aerocrats' was better in the late '60s!!’
Reminds me of my name for 60’s dog handlers. Plutocrats. Gerrit??
Oy! - Blacksheep. What’s this ‘bunch of scruffs at Butterworth’. Cheeky! That’s me on the right I’ll have you know. Smart as a ………?
Reminds me of my name for 60’s dog handlers. Plutocrats. Gerrit??
Oy! - Blacksheep. What’s this ‘bunch of scruffs at Butterworth’. Cheeky! That’s me on the right I’ll have you know. Smart as a ………?
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Pfffft
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just saw the advert myself. As part of the demographic I presume they are trying to target I had been expecting something that would appeal to me as a 'yoof' and sell the RAF to me....
.....how wrong I was
I think the RAF Recruiters need to look at getting the Army's ad designers in, the latest round of Army and TA recruitment adverts have been really good. Hard hitting, interesting and evoked an interest in the service.
.....how wrong I was
I think the RAF Recruiters need to look at getting the Army's ad designers in, the latest round of Army and TA recruitment adverts have been really good. Hard hitting, interesting and evoked an interest in the service.
Stn Cdr to Shopkeeper
Beagle wrote:
Ally Mackay, staish at Bruggen (might have been Wildenrath). I had a brief conversation with him in the WOC as I passed through and a month later bumped into him wrapping a pair of trousers in Robert Sayle's in Cambridge. That must have been late '89. First knew him at Cranwell, he was on 91D, he was one of the best.
YS
Didn't some ex-F4 senior bod actually PVR and then do his time on the tills at some shop or other before taking over management of a large retail organisation? Can't recall who/what/when.....
YS
Sorry, haven't read all the pages but has anyone heard the radio recruitment ad? Job interview for some nude modelling job for a painting class! As the interviewee goes through the motions of asking the questions he begins to feel like it's all a bit of a cushy number at which point the narrator comes on asking whether if you want to feel "this valued" you should join the RAF. Sorry, I'd suggest that A. as has been mentioned this is not an inspiring ad for people to join up. As has been mentioned think fast pointy things, with other stuff floating around. But B, if you want to feel valued would you really want to join up? Feel valued and get sent overseas, away from your loved ones, without the kit you need to keep you safe and secure, for months at a time and don't get paid enough to do it. Oh and worry even more about said loved ones because they live in sh1te accommodation (see DHE thread!).
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just caught an ad on BBC World last night with lots of air-to-air clips of the Red Sparrers doing their stuff while their CO does a talk through. Very interesting, and very professionally done - more like a mini-documentary. Air displays are pretty PC I suppose, but I noticed there wasn't any mention of weapons or warfare. That ad should attract a few new aspiring FJ drivers, but I wonder how many backroom people it might also pull in along with them? And why show it on BBC World? Are the RAF recruiting foreigners (again) now?
Mebbe the recruiters have been reading PPRuNe?
**************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
Mebbe the recruiters have been reading PPRuNe?
**************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
Thought police antagonist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,372
Received 117 Likes
on
84 Posts
With regard to the comments about the latest recruiting ad.-- it gets worse !. Below, a verbatim copy from the Manchester Evening News---which may have also appeared in other local media. Read on.
MINICAB DRIVERS
WANTED FOR LOCAL AREA
Expect to receive :
# Free massage at the end of every shift
# No hold ups on the A40
# One famous passenger guaranteed every week
# Tourists who can't distinguish between a £10 and £20 pound note
# Friday night revellers who've "been ill" prior to boarding
# Fare dodgers who can't run very fast
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feel this valued
In any one of our 70 careers
Call xxxxxxxxx RAF ( and roundle )
Now this was, I assume, a serious advert for the RAF !!. Frankly, a semi-skilled / literate ferret could do a better job. If you really get bored, have a look at the equally bland website. Have a look at the "Week in the life"--of the Eng.O. It's a sort of " Bunty goes to Leuchars" fantasy. Although it could be true of course
However, the point is this. I have constructed one than one Marketing Communications Strategy and frankly the advert in question, plus the supporting adverts / website, are unlikely to attract any serious applicant to the RAF. Today's "yoof" may be a shade inert , but they are much more inquisitive than many of their predecessors. Consequently, they are not going to be impressed by the bland and surreal type of adverts pushed in front of them. More importantly, the blandness does NOT show the RAF in a positive light---always useful when you are trying to advertise and market a product !
I will be perfectly happy to construct a new campaign if anybody from the CIO world is reading this by the way-----for £££'s obviously
MINICAB DRIVERS
WANTED FOR LOCAL AREA
Expect to receive :
# Free massage at the end of every shift
# No hold ups on the A40
# One famous passenger guaranteed every week
# Tourists who can't distinguish between a £10 and £20 pound note
# Friday night revellers who've "been ill" prior to boarding
# Fare dodgers who can't run very fast
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feel this valued
In any one of our 70 careers
Call xxxxxxxxx RAF ( and roundle )
Now this was, I assume, a serious advert for the RAF !!. Frankly, a semi-skilled / literate ferret could do a better job. If you really get bored, have a look at the equally bland website. Have a look at the "Week in the life"--of the Eng.O. It's a sort of " Bunty goes to Leuchars" fantasy. Although it could be true of course
However, the point is this. I have constructed one than one Marketing Communications Strategy and frankly the advert in question, plus the supporting adverts / website, are unlikely to attract any serious applicant to the RAF. Today's "yoof" may be a shade inert , but they are much more inquisitive than many of their predecessors. Consequently, they are not going to be impressed by the bland and surreal type of adverts pushed in front of them. More importantly, the blandness does NOT show the RAF in a positive light---always useful when you are trying to advertise and market a product !
I will be perfectly happy to construct a new campaign if anybody from the CIO world is reading this by the way-----for £££'s obviously