Fly WAFU...maybe?
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Fly WAFU...maybe?
The Royal Navy's recent recruitment drive has caught my attention. Currently looking at graduate careers in the RN they all seem awesome (for want of a better word).
Every RN/WAFU officer I’ve met has been interested and enthusiastic about their job and me joining, something I can't say about other forces.
So far I understand that an RN aircrew officer, is a Navy officer first and a pilot second, perfect!
In reality what does the Admiralty want of me?
Am I any use to the Admiralty as a student with no naval history?
Special flying award...any info?
Thanks for your time
Geez
Every RN/WAFU officer I’ve met has been interested and enthusiastic about their job and me joining, something I can't say about other forces.
So far I understand that an RN aircrew officer, is a Navy officer first and a pilot second, perfect!
In reality what does the Admiralty want of me?
Am I any use to the Admiralty as a student with no naval history?
Special flying award...any info?
Thanks for your time
Geez
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Joining the Mob
Geez
Yep, most of us are pretty enthusiastic about what we do! Aside from the beancounters having more influence than they used to, I still can't see any other job that I'd rather be doing at the moment. Just to answer a couple of your questions..
The Admiralty wants you to be available to work bloody hard, in some fairly inhospitable places, for lower pay than you could earn outside but will give you the opportunity to play hard as well, sometimes in some very picturesque locations (rum punch on a Caribbean beach on a Wednesday afternoon) with a fantastic bunch of like-minded people. (And you get to take the piss out of the Crabs as well!)
You could be a student of Mesopotamian basket weaving for all they will care about the subject of a degree (unless you want to join as an engineer, when engineering is sort of expected!). It's the fact that you know how to gather information, organise the facts and develop a theory based on the data that is important.
Special flying award - don't know, ask a careers office.
As far as the Naval Officer first and pilot second is concerned, that's probably true of any of the Services, although some Crabs seem only to have qualified as Officers on a technicality. In the RN, aircrew are a sub-specialisation of the Seaman Officer branch (ship drivers). This means that you can become an aviator one of two ways:
First, join BRNC as a fish-head, do the training there and then go off to sea for about 2 years to get qualified and learn to drive ships. Once you have your bridge watch-keeping ticket, you can apply to sub-specialise in aviation and will compete with all the other fish-heads who want to do the same thing for however many places are available. (250 applicants for 10 places last time I heard about it) If you get it, you then go through flying training for a couple of years and end up on the frontline. Time from joining BRNC to frontline - 5 years approx.
Alternatively, join BRNC directly as potential aircrew, do the basic stuff and then go straight into flying training. Qualify after a couple of years and go frontline. Time from joining to frontline - about 3 years.
Basically, you can either be a fish-head who happens to be an aviator or an aviator who happens to be a fish-head (but only technically). Just depends what's important to you.
In all seriousness, you can have fun flying in any of the Services, but I still think you can enjoy yourself more in the RN.
Yep, most of us are pretty enthusiastic about what we do! Aside from the beancounters having more influence than they used to, I still can't see any other job that I'd rather be doing at the moment. Just to answer a couple of your questions..
The Admiralty wants you to be available to work bloody hard, in some fairly inhospitable places, for lower pay than you could earn outside but will give you the opportunity to play hard as well, sometimes in some very picturesque locations (rum punch on a Caribbean beach on a Wednesday afternoon) with a fantastic bunch of like-minded people. (And you get to take the piss out of the Crabs as well!)
You could be a student of Mesopotamian basket weaving for all they will care about the subject of a degree (unless you want to join as an engineer, when engineering is sort of expected!). It's the fact that you know how to gather information, organise the facts and develop a theory based on the data that is important.
Special flying award - don't know, ask a careers office.
As far as the Naval Officer first and pilot second is concerned, that's probably true of any of the Services, although some Crabs seem only to have qualified as Officers on a technicality. In the RN, aircrew are a sub-specialisation of the Seaman Officer branch (ship drivers). This means that you can become an aviator one of two ways:
First, join BRNC as a fish-head, do the training there and then go off to sea for about 2 years to get qualified and learn to drive ships. Once you have your bridge watch-keeping ticket, you can apply to sub-specialise in aviation and will compete with all the other fish-heads who want to do the same thing for however many places are available. (250 applicants for 10 places last time I heard about it) If you get it, you then go through flying training for a couple of years and end up on the frontline. Time from joining BRNC to frontline - 5 years approx.
Alternatively, join BRNC directly as potential aircrew, do the basic stuff and then go straight into flying training. Qualify after a couple of years and go frontline. Time from joining to frontline - about 3 years.
Basically, you can either be a fish-head who happens to be an aviator or an aviator who happens to be a fish-head (but only technically). Just depends what's important to you.
In all seriousness, you can have fun flying in any of the Services, but I still think you can enjoy yourself more in the RN.
Last edited by snafu; 11th Nov 2003 at 01:56.
Just be aware if you join as a fish-head with the intention of sub-specialising later as aircrew there is a very real possibility (if you're male) that they'll make you a submariner instead. Which is probably worse than being a crab.
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snafu - rising to your bait - could you please list the names of those crabs who 'only qualified as officers on a technicality'?
I bet you don't know any!
I served 36 years in the RAF and I never met one.
I bet you don't know any!
I served 36 years in the RAF and I never met one.
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Ok, so I'm not going to name names on a public forum, but I've certainly met a few who could have done with an extra couple of weeks at school before telling everyone that they were about to qualify as fast jet pilots - from JEFTS!
Having said that, I know we've got one or two of the same types in the RN, but who wants to let the truth get in the way of some banter!
BTW, can I have my hook back?
Having said that, I know we've got one or two of the same types in the RN, but who wants to let the truth get in the way of some banter!
BTW, can I have my hook back?
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Your hook is returned intact.
Having enjoyed some wonderful fishead hospitality in the past I can vouch for the fact that both services have their share of plonkers - but they're all 'qualified' plonkers!
Having enjoyed some wonderful fishead hospitality in the past I can vouch for the fact that both services have their share of plonkers - but they're all 'qualified' plonkers!
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Diamond
With regards to the Special Flying Award, the post above is correct you need to talk to the liaison officer at your local armed forces centre.
There are two awards, one is gliding based and the other is a two-week course at 727NAS, flying the Grob that the Navy use for grading. The way I went about it was to get sponsored by the Fleet Air Arm Officers Association (FAAOA). If you get sponsorship from a serving officer, which isn't as hard as it sounds! Then you will be booked on the closest course, which are held at RNAS Culdrose or RNAS Yeovilton, although there could be more. Do well on that and then you will be recommended for the course with 727NAS.
I have heard that there is another route. You can skip the gliding and the guys at the local centre will sort that out, but it just means that you go and do the 727NAS bit with out the gliding.
Unfortunately didn't do the scholarship with 727NAS because I had already completed the AIB, so was deemed out of the 'recruiting system' therefore they didn't want to spend money on me
A friend has done it and said it was awesome fun. Basically all the flying you do at Grading, but no pressure of checklists etc.
Don't quote me on the above, things could be different since i went through, but hope that helps.
TBird
With regards to the Special Flying Award, the post above is correct you need to talk to the liaison officer at your local armed forces centre.
There are two awards, one is gliding based and the other is a two-week course at 727NAS, flying the Grob that the Navy use for grading. The way I went about it was to get sponsored by the Fleet Air Arm Officers Association (FAAOA). If you get sponsorship from a serving officer, which isn't as hard as it sounds! Then you will be booked on the closest course, which are held at RNAS Culdrose or RNAS Yeovilton, although there could be more. Do well on that and then you will be recommended for the course with 727NAS.
I have heard that there is another route. You can skip the gliding and the guys at the local centre will sort that out, but it just means that you go and do the 727NAS bit with out the gliding.
Unfortunately didn't do the scholarship with 727NAS because I had already completed the AIB, so was deemed out of the 'recruiting system' therefore they didn't want to spend money on me
A friend has done it and said it was awesome fun. Basically all the flying you do at Grading, but no pressure of checklists etc.Don't quote me on the above, things could be different since i went through, but hope that helps.
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Diamond - You don't 'sign', but instead apply to attend a selection board, and are then hopefully selected as being suitable material. Then as a pilot, you attend flying grading during BRNC. If you fail you are kicked out of the college, transfers to other branches are not available(although an engineering degree may create an exception).
However; do not under estimate yourself. Don't just think about it but go down to the careers office and fill in the application form. The RN wants people with potential, who will respond to training. You could be entirely suitable?!
F
However; do not under estimate yourself. Don't just think about it but go down to the careers office and fill in the application form. The RN wants people with potential, who will respond to training. You could be entirely suitable?!
F
If you fail you are kicked out of the college, transfers to other branches are not available(although an engineering degree may create an exception).
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D. Geezer,
As much as i hate to admit it.... Bing is coorect. Failure of grading does not mean automatic expulsion from BRNC.
The Navy does emphasize the Officer before pilot system, hence you do 2 terms of naval general training before doing any specialist training towards aviation. Pilot grading is a fun and stressful time and they are looking for potential over ability. There is nothing more you can do then enjoy it, work hard, and be yourself. The same qualities apply to AIB and BRNC.
If you were to fail grading then there are many offers available. Feneris is a bit harsh in his wording. A lot will depend on your background (degree, etc) and also how you did in the 1st two terms of Dartmouth. The options are to join the Warfare branch, or supply branch, or engineering if you have a suitable degree. Observer and ATC grading is also an option.
The best attitude (in my mind) is to enjoy it. If you are not enjoying it you are in the wrong job. If you are enjoying it and not stressing then the best will come out.
With regard to what the RN wants from you.....
They are currently looking for non-grads ideally. They want to reduce the average age of guys getting there wings. They are still recruiting guys up to the age of 26 (grads or non grads) but there is now the in-service degree which looks like a good option. Joining the Navy as a midshipman as its pro's and cons, but the main 'pro' is that middy tabs are the ultimate **** deflector.
The AIB will be looking for someone who is very pro-navy and someone who is enthusiastic and willing to learn about the RN. A good ground knowledge of current ships and operations is a useful thing to have, but they are more interested in YOU, then they are about your knowledge of the Navy. They can teach you about the Navy, they can only aide you in good leadership qualities and being a good bloke.
Good luck, let us know,
Yours aye
TR
Bing - see you back at EGOS soon
As much as i hate to admit it.... Bing is coorect. Failure of grading does not mean automatic expulsion from BRNC.
The Navy does emphasize the Officer before pilot system, hence you do 2 terms of naval general training before doing any specialist training towards aviation. Pilot grading is a fun and stressful time and they are looking for potential over ability. There is nothing more you can do then enjoy it, work hard, and be yourself. The same qualities apply to AIB and BRNC.
If you were to fail grading then there are many offers available. Feneris is a bit harsh in his wording. A lot will depend on your background (degree, etc) and also how you did in the 1st two terms of Dartmouth. The options are to join the Warfare branch, or supply branch, or engineering if you have a suitable degree. Observer and ATC grading is also an option.
The best attitude (in my mind) is to enjoy it. If you are not enjoying it you are in the wrong job. If you are enjoying it and not stressing then the best will come out.
With regard to what the RN wants from you.....
They are currently looking for non-grads ideally. They want to reduce the average age of guys getting there wings. They are still recruiting guys up to the age of 26 (grads or non grads) but there is now the in-service degree which looks like a good option. Joining the Navy as a midshipman as its pro's and cons, but the main 'pro' is that middy tabs are the ultimate **** deflector.
The AIB will be looking for someone who is very pro-navy and someone who is enthusiastic and willing to learn about the RN. A good ground knowledge of current ships and operations is a useful thing to have, but they are more interested in YOU, then they are about your knowledge of the Navy. They can teach you about the Navy, they can only aide you in good leadership qualities and being a good bloke.
Good luck, let us know,
Yours aye
TR
Bing - see you back at EGOS soon
Bing - see you back at EGOS soon
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Hello fella, been aaaages since I looked in here as it's been a long time I flew (badly) - but I have a few tips for you RE RAF vs RN. I've graduated from both Cranditz and Dartmouth...and did FAR better at the latter. This was a good indication to me that although BRNC took twice as long, it suited me twice as well. IMHO, you're right about the emphasis on officer like qualities in the RN. IOT phys was harder, the staff far less pleasant in general, and the level of arrogance in many of the students was breathtaking. Many of them are now fantastically talented pilots and navigators, but some are sadly rather less talented at being pleasant human beings. Of course this is true of many things in life...I miss flying (i was chopped at JEFTS and was not rebranched) but after a few years and some fantastic experiences at sea (now well down the road to qualifying as a submarine warfare officer) I see where my talents lie.
It's good to see your appreciation of the importance of officer like qualities - I see now more clearly than I ever did in the RAF as I live and work beside junior and senior rates every day. This is the real test.
It's good to see your appreciation of the importance of officer like qualities - I see now more clearly than I ever did in the RAF as I live and work beside junior and senior rates every day. This is the real test.
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As I said earlier.......
"If you fail you are kicked out of the college, transfers to other branches are not available(although an engineering degree may create an exception)."
This is unfortunately correct, and was a cause of concern when I attended grading. The X and X(SM) branches are oversubscribed. I know that the last pilot and 4 observers who failed grading and applied for a rebranch were all rejected and kicked out. They are of course able to reapply to the AIB. This was not the case a year ago, when I know of a cadet who was struggling with the course anyway, failed grading and were still rebranched. Clearly a commissioned career with the RN is currently quite popular.
F
"If you fail you are kicked out of the college, transfers to other branches are not available(although an engineering degree may create an exception)."
This is unfortunately correct, and was a cause of concern when I attended grading. The X and X(SM) branches are oversubscribed. I know that the last pilot and 4 observers who failed grading and applied for a rebranch were all rejected and kicked out. They are of course able to reapply to the AIB. This was not the case a year ago, when I know of a cadet who was struggling with the course anyway, failed grading and were still rebranched. Clearly a commissioned career with the RN is currently quite popular.
F
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Feneris,
Are you currently at BRNC? I have a feeling I may have just graded with the Pilot you mention. To get back to the topic, unfortunately grading failure is now an unofficial immediate boot.
Under the new system at BRNC the recruiters went mad and simply took on too many people for the places, primarily in the X specialisation.
Apologies for pis*ed fingers!
Are you currently at BRNC? I have a feeling I may have just graded with the Pilot you mention. To get back to the topic, unfortunately grading failure is now an unofficial immediate boot.
Under the new system at BRNC the recruiters went mad and simply took on too many people for the places, primarily in the X specialisation.
Apologies for pis*ed fingers!
Well that's me told! Didn't realise things had changed so much, out of interest how does the new system work? Having looked at the RN website they still seem to be advertising the system in place before I joined where you went back to the college after fleet time as a Fleet Senior.
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Rumour has it that to save all the bother, they might change grading for those going down the WAFU route to the first term. I know this would be a good idea. The Army Air Corps have been doing this for a long time. You can do grading during Sandhurst, or if you get through the RCB (Regular Commissions Board) and go to the AAC they will put you through grading even before Sandhurst. It just depends on when you introduce yourself to the AAC and try for sponsorship.
What is the point of going through IOT not knowing at the end of it whether you are going to pass grading? At the least you will go through with an understanding of your potential as a pilot, if you pass grading before hand. It just seems rather a risk, especially if they are going to boot you out rather than re-stream you if you fail grading.
I know that you are going to fire back with the whole officer first pilot second rule, but surely a little bit of security is a good thing? Plus you won’t waste time and money putting someone through IOT who might fail and get booted out at the end of it. If it works for the AAC then why can’t it work for the Navy and the RAF for that matter? The only thing I can say about the RAF is that there IOT is shorter. I know it will take a bit of adapting, but the Army have had to do it this way because they have the unique opportunity of training NCO’s and Officers on flight training together.
The only thing that I have to say against my argument is that the other reason the AAC do it this way, is because everyone has to be on a level for the Regimental Interview Boards on week twenty two of Sandhurst. BRNC and Cranwell don't have to worry about this. However this doesn’t mean that they are rushing things, and actually those reasons have made them build a very efficient system of pushing people through the recruiting process.
I think the Navy and RAF could learn a thing or two from the ladies and gentleman who wear the sky blue lid?
What is the point of going through IOT not knowing at the end of it whether you are going to pass grading? At the least you will go through with an understanding of your potential as a pilot, if you pass grading before hand. It just seems rather a risk, especially if they are going to boot you out rather than re-stream you if you fail grading.
I know that you are going to fire back with the whole officer first pilot second rule, but surely a little bit of security is a good thing? Plus you won’t waste time and money putting someone through IOT who might fail and get booted out at the end of it. If it works for the AAC then why can’t it work for the Navy and the RAF for that matter? The only thing I can say about the RAF is that there IOT is shorter. I know it will take a bit of adapting, but the Army have had to do it this way because they have the unique opportunity of training NCO’s and Officers on flight training together.
The only thing that I have to say against my argument is that the other reason the AAC do it this way, is because everyone has to be on a level for the Regimental Interview Boards on week twenty two of Sandhurst. BRNC and Cranwell don't have to worry about this. However this doesn’t mean that they are rushing things, and actually those reasons have made them build a very efficient system of pushing people through the recruiting process.
I think the Navy and RAF could learn a thing or two from the ladies and gentleman who wear the sky blue lid?
Last edited by Tbird; 21st Nov 2003 at 07:34.
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AAC Grading
And how to smell.....
I do think the AAC do have a good policy with their grading. The FAA way does seem to waste 8 months of someone's life if they are going to be 'booted out' should they fail. As they have been trained as 'naval officers' before they start grading, surely it would be better to keep hold of them then let someone else start BRNC who may fail (especially as WAFUs are supposed to have better AIB scores).
Just a thought........
TR
(sorry....am i allowed to think?)
I do think the AAC do have a good policy with their grading. The FAA way does seem to waste 8 months of someone's life if they are going to be 'booted out' should they fail. As they have been trained as 'naval officers' before they start grading, surely it would be better to keep hold of them then let someone else start BRNC who may fail (especially as WAFUs are supposed to have better AIB scores).
Just a thought........
TR
(sorry....am i allowed to think?)
