A weighty problem .....
Bluey
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A weighty problem .....
A young friend of mine has always had an ambition to be a pilot, specifically an air force pilot.
Since she was a child, her intention has never wavered and with the goal fixed firmly in her sights, she worked hard, studied hard and applied herself with single-minded determination to achieve what she wanted. As well as the academic side of things (straight A.s in every subject except one), she was determined to be very fit physically and from the age of twelve, she was coached by her father (a personal trainer), until by the time she left High School, she was running fifteen kilometres twice a week, doing weight training, playing squash and swimming.
The kid is as fit as a mallee bull ... as we say hereabouts!
Can you imagine then how devastated she felt last week when she was refused "entry" to the RAAF ........ because she is overweight!!!!
It seems that the RAAF goes by a fairly strict height/weight ratio guide according to which revered document, she is 8kg overweight. Now, if anything, she is actually a little on the lean side but because she has quite a low percentage of body fat and a fairly high percentage of muscle, she is a lot heavier than someone else of similar height and size.
She explained this to the powers that be but they insist that she must be treated the same as every other applicant. So, in spite of the evidence of their own eyes, they maintain that she is overweight and, by implication, unfit.
I have no idea what advice I could possibly offer her ... it seems awful to tell her to eat junk food for a month, don't exercise and the air force would love to have you when you've become less fit.
Does anyone have any clues here ... any advice, bright ideas, been through the same thing ... whatever ... anything that might assist will be very welcome.
Since she was a child, her intention has never wavered and with the goal fixed firmly in her sights, she worked hard, studied hard and applied herself with single-minded determination to achieve what she wanted. As well as the academic side of things (straight A.s in every subject except one), she was determined to be very fit physically and from the age of twelve, she was coached by her father (a personal trainer), until by the time she left High School, she was running fifteen kilometres twice a week, doing weight training, playing squash and swimming.
The kid is as fit as a mallee bull ... as we say hereabouts!
Can you imagine then how devastated she felt last week when she was refused "entry" to the RAAF ........ because she is overweight!!!!
It seems that the RAAF goes by a fairly strict height/weight ratio guide according to which revered document, she is 8kg overweight. Now, if anything, she is actually a little on the lean side but because she has quite a low percentage of body fat and a fairly high percentage of muscle, she is a lot heavier than someone else of similar height and size.
She explained this to the powers that be but they insist that she must be treated the same as every other applicant. So, in spite of the evidence of their own eyes, they maintain that she is overweight and, by implication, unfit.
I have no idea what advice I could possibly offer her ... it seems awful to tell her to eat junk food for a month, don't exercise and the air force would love to have you when you've become less fit.
Does anyone have any clues here ... any advice, bright ideas, been through the same thing ... whatever ... anything that might assist will be very welcome.
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This seems (from a UK RAF perspective) to be faintly ridiculous. When I joined the RAF I was in front of the President of the Medical Board as I didn't fit on their charts! Being too tall & too heavy for their graphs, he put a ruler on the graph and extrapolated the lines - then looked up at me, said I looked OK for me height and weight, and passed me!
Does the RAAF not take athletic prowess into account? I know we have dispensation in the RAF for some people to body build and their uniforms are changed to accommodate body size! Suggest some sort of appeal. There MUST be a system!
Does the RAAF not take athletic prowess into account? I know we have dispensation in the RAF for some people to body build and their uniforms are changed to accommodate body size! Suggest some sort of appeal. There MUST be a system!
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The RAF went through a similar rediculous process a few years ago. Indeed, a friend of mine, who is obviously of a heavy build, was told to lose a rediculous amount of weight. He went to see a private expert with the figures the RAF gave him. He was advised by his consultant that if he lost that amount of weight it could endanger his life through heart problems, liver failure etc. He was further advised that any doctor telling him to do so would be in breach of several professional guidelines. The independant consultant gave him a letter stating as much which he took to the medical board.
He never lost a pound, the medics all panicked as someone had found them out, and he now flys everyday. He's still of a heavy build but a lot thinner than most of the Navs!!!
Perhaps your friend could/should seek a second opinion from a real expert.
Cheers, good luck and don't be too upset when Martin Johnson lifts the old William Webb Ellis!!
R&R
He never lost a pound, the medics all panicked as someone had found them out, and he now flys everyday. He's still of a heavy build but a lot thinner than most of the Navs!!!
Perhaps your friend could/should seek a second opinion from a real expert.
Cheers, good luck and don't be too upset when Martin Johnson lifts the old William Webb Ellis!!
R&R
Just one thing to remember and that is that there is a maximum weight for each individual type of ejection seat, and this is normally defined as a "nude" weight, not boarding weight (nude weight plus flying equipment, clothing etc). From what you have said I doubt that this is the problem here, but forewarned is forearmed in case they try to throw this one at your friend. It might be worth trying to find out what the upper weight limit is for the ejection seats in the RAAF aircraft. Good luck!
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There have also been issues with minimum weights for pilots using ejection seats. The issues were largely administrative in nature, as the seat had simply not been tested with light weights prior to being certified. The answer for the RNZAF was to have said pilots sign a waiver saying they wouldn't complain if the seat acceleration broke said pilots' backs...
BMI
The RAAF judge the build of people by their BMI. The Body Mass Index is calculated as the Weight (kg) divided by the Height Squared (in metres).
When I joined I was 83kg, and was 1.83m tall. This gave me a BMI of 24.8 which (if I remember correctly) was just on the verge of being overweight. Whilst hardly musclebound, much of that weight was from working out in the gym, and it certainly seemed ridiculous to me to be classed as such.
RAAF Physical Training Instructors are often very heavy for their height as a result of bodybuilding, and they too get a hard time from the medical community. They can all to easily be classed as OBESE, and yet have less than 4% body fat....
Things get a little easier once you are in, and the Doctors MAY begin to treat you with some common sense. I won't dare reveal to you all what I weigh NOW - some 12 years later !!
Your friend may have to lose some weight, but she shouldn't have to lose her fitness in doing so. And once she's in, she can make use of the excellent gym facilities to get back her preferred build, assuming it stays within ejection seat limits.
When I joined I was 83kg, and was 1.83m tall. This gave me a BMI of 24.8 which (if I remember correctly) was just on the verge of being overweight. Whilst hardly musclebound, much of that weight was from working out in the gym, and it certainly seemed ridiculous to me to be classed as such.
RAAF Physical Training Instructors are often very heavy for their height as a result of bodybuilding, and they too get a hard time from the medical community. They can all to easily be classed as OBESE, and yet have less than 4% body fat....
Things get a little easier once you are in, and the Doctors MAY begin to treat you with some common sense. I won't dare reveal to you all what I weigh NOW - some 12 years later !!
Your friend may have to lose some weight, but she shouldn't have to lose her fitness in doing so. And once she's in, she can make use of the excellent gym facilities to get back her preferred build, assuming it stays within ejection seat limits.
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I had similar probs upon applying through OASC. I weighed 89kgs at 17.5yrs old and i was told that i had to be 82.5 or below to even be considered. Bearing in mind that i was playing professional rugby and am about 6ft tall, it was bloody hard work i can say!!
Being the keen youngster i was, i stopped playing rugby for a month and basically starved myself!!!NOT RECOMMENDED!!!
I got down to the said 82.5kgs and i looked ill. All OASC needed was a chit from my local GP saying that i'd reached the weight and they were happy.
Due to still playing rugby to a reasonable standard, i have constantly struggled with the max nude weights for ejection seats. The tucano was 95kg nude and i was riding the buffet all the way thru linton. God knows what it will be like on the hawk where i can imagine the nude weight is a bit lower!!
If anyone knows the nude weight for the hawk off the top of their heads it would be greatly appreciated!
Being the keen youngster i was, i stopped playing rugby for a month and basically starved myself!!!NOT RECOMMENDED!!!
I got down to the said 82.5kgs and i looked ill. All OASC needed was a chit from my local GP saying that i'd reached the weight and they were happy.
Due to still playing rugby to a reasonable standard, i have constantly struggled with the max nude weights for ejection seats. The tucano was 95kg nude and i was riding the buffet all the way thru linton. God knows what it will be like on the hawk where i can imagine the nude weight is a bit lower!!
If anyone knows the nude weight for the hawk off the top of their heads it would be greatly appreciated!
Flash,
Officially I don't know the answer but as my naked weight is 95kg and I have done some Hawk flying I think you'll be okay. There were also much larger guys than I squeezed into the mighty Hawk.
Officially I don't know the answer but as my naked weight is 95kg and I have done some Hawk flying I think you'll be okay. There were also much larger guys than I squeezed into the mighty Hawk.
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From memory, the lower weight limit is around 55kg and the upper is 100kg. This is based on the lower and upper limits that the PC-9/A ejection has been tested at.
I am surprised, Blue Diamond, that your young friend was rejected. There was a girl on my pilots course who was under 55kg and a bloke who was over 100kg. Both ended up getting waivers.
Runaway Gun is quite correct when he talks about BMI. I know some RAAFies who are very fit from time in the gym, but they are classified as obese according to the BMI chart. Every year, before their annual fitness assessment, they have to get a certificate from the doc to prove they won't keel over on the 2.4 k.
Blue Diamond, your friend is on the right track with the appeal from the quacks. Best of luck.
I am surprised, Blue Diamond, that your young friend was rejected. There was a girl on my pilots course who was under 55kg and a bloke who was over 100kg. Both ended up getting waivers.
Runaway Gun is quite correct when he talks about BMI. I know some RAAFies who are very fit from time in the gym, but they are classified as obese according to the BMI chart. Every year, before their annual fitness assessment, they have to get a certificate from the doc to prove they won't keel over on the 2.4 k.
Blue Diamond, your friend is on the right track with the appeal from the quacks. Best of luck.
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Being of the large persuasion, I have taken a great interest in the Hawk & Tornado seats
95kg is the max nude wt for Tornado for a zero-zero capability. From 95-106 kg it is a zero-30kt seat. There are plenty of graphs around the safety equipment empire that show the limitations.
If you are on the tall side, sitting thigh length can be a problem in the Hawk.
I'm 6' 3" with 34" inside leg and I only had 5mm knee clearance. It sure made sure that i strapped in and sat carefully!
Hope this helps.
Unfortunately as you advance in years, the weight settles differently and you have to be careful
95kg is the max nude wt for Tornado for a zero-zero capability. From 95-106 kg it is a zero-30kt seat. There are plenty of graphs around the safety equipment empire that show the limitations.
If you are on the tall side, sitting thigh length can be a problem in the Hawk.
I'm 6' 3" with 34" inside leg and I only had 5mm knee clearance. It sure made sure that i strapped in and sat carefully!
Hope this helps.
Unfortunately as you advance in years, the weight settles differently and you have to be careful
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I was over the PC-9 ejection seat limit (just 
, all they made me do was brief ejection 10 knots faster ..
The joke was that I would pull the ejection handle and the aircraft would eject down from me....
or of course the seat would rise 5 cm, then settle back down into place
As for the young lass... just appeal it up to the Surgeon General - ADF.. a former SG-ADF that I knew used to say they'd initially say no to see what happened.. if the person redressed it high, they would look at it properly.. the idea being they get lots of applicants so why go to the trouble..
PAF
, all they made me do was brief ejection 10 knots faster ..The joke was that I would pull the ejection handle and the aircraft would eject down from me....
or of course the seat would rise 5 cm, then settle back down into place
As for the young lass... just appeal it up to the Surgeon General - ADF.. a former SG-ADF that I knew used to say they'd initially say no to see what happened.. if the person redressed it high, they would look at it properly.. the idea being they get lots of applicants so why go to the trouble..
PAF
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Maybe she would like to fly with Army. A little more flexible and common-sense approach apparently.
Where in the recruiting chain did the rejection come at? Was it at the recruiting centre itself, or at the confirming authority (the Institute of Aviation medicine)?
Where in the recruiting chain did the rejection come at? Was it at the recruiting centre itself, or at the confirming authority (the Institute of Aviation medicine)?
