New Helicopter For Sar Force
Replacement SAR Platform
I hear there are a few Wessex helicopters available 
, only recently retired, so have been well (?) looked after for some thirty or so years, they may be suitable for SAR work 
they may even be reasonably priced!!
, only recently retired, so have been well (?) looked after for some thirty or so years, they may be suitable for SAR work they may even be reasonably priced!!
Join Date: Apr 2002
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The Wessex idea would never work. The cabin is far to big, you can get more than one prone causulty in it, you would need those awful military types to fix them and it hasn't got any toys for the pilots to play with as they laugh at the hunched up crewman with bad knees.
Griffins are the way forward.
Griffins are the way forward.
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The RDAF had a look at the NH90, S92 and EH101 for SAR duties. They selected the EH101. The NH90 was too small and the S92 would not be available in time. EH101s are replacing Sea Kings as of early next year, when the first of 14 odd machines will be delivered.
The Canadians seems to be quite fond of their EH101 for SAR duties, especially praising it's long-range capabilities.
The Canadians seems to be quite fond of their EH101 for SAR duties, especially praising it's long-range capabilities.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Boys.
Who said that the replacement for the Sea King had to be another helicopter? In fact, I understand the team that deals with this in the House of Glass has been forbidden from talking about platform and is encouraged to talk about capability. Roll-out the airship, the MPA and the Fast Patrol Boat. Perhaps we will get shiny red boats like on Bay Watch - hope all the crews look like Yasmin Bleeth!
Ref the Canadian Cormorant, anyone spoken to the rearcrew. I heard that they weren't exactly jumping with joy about the cabin layout. Usual Canadian problem of having pilots decide on the spec for rear crew equipment.
While we are talking SAR helos. I noticed a number of jealous looking guys from Agusta Westland at Helitech as the admiring crowds were crawling all over the Bristows SAR Super Puma and the AB139. Not to mention the mighty impressive S92. Not that any decision will have anything to do with capability. I suspect the local MP for Yeovilton and Sherborne will be actively lobbying for Agusta Westland !! Oops, sorry Mr Moderator, getting near the knuckle here.
Who said that the replacement for the Sea King had to be another helicopter? In fact, I understand the team that deals with this in the House of Glass has been forbidden from talking about platform and is encouraged to talk about capability. Roll-out the airship, the MPA and the Fast Patrol Boat. Perhaps we will get shiny red boats like on Bay Watch - hope all the crews look like Yasmin Bleeth!
Ref the Canadian Cormorant, anyone spoken to the rearcrew. I heard that they weren't exactly jumping with joy about the cabin layout. Usual Canadian problem of having pilots decide on the spec for rear crew equipment.
While we are talking SAR helos. I noticed a number of jealous looking guys from Agusta Westland at Helitech as the admiring crowds were crawling all over the Bristows SAR Super Puma and the AB139. Not to mention the mighty impressive S92. Not that any decision will have anything to do with capability. I suspect the local MP for Yeovilton and Sherborne will be actively lobbying for Agusta Westland !! Oops, sorry Mr Moderator, getting near the knuckle here.
Apache for HEMS - Strafe those Survivors!
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The 101 is a great pilots toy, however as a winching platform I have my doubts. Westlands were offered the benefit of advice from some pretty experienced SAR rearcrew and as usual westlands knew best.... which is why the door is way too far back, a problem made worse by the intense downwash which will probably require a higher winching height, and the winch on the canadian machines is in completely the wrong place in the door.
A problem westlands have had to address for the european orders ( to win them) by fitting a second hoist at the front of the door to allow for the high nose attitude in the hover, which was putting the cable too close to the stub during winching. I am led to believe that the canadians would very much like this mod but it involves the aircraft being returned to the factory to have additional structural strengthening inserted in the airframe in this position.
Further info says the aircraft is a pretty hard ride in turbulent mountain conditions. It is also VERY expensive in comparison with the competition.
However, despite these problems it possesses one feature which practically guarantees its purchase by MoD, down the back somewhere it has a little plate on the airframe with the words "invented and built here" inscribed on it. Enjoy it team.
A problem westlands have had to address for the european orders ( to win them) by fitting a second hoist at the front of the door to allow for the high nose attitude in the hover, which was putting the cable too close to the stub during winching. I am led to believe that the canadians would very much like this mod but it involves the aircraft being returned to the factory to have additional structural strengthening inserted in the airframe in this position.
Further info says the aircraft is a pretty hard ride in turbulent mountain conditions. It is also VERY expensive in comparison with the competition.
However, despite these problems it possesses one feature which practically guarantees its purchase by MoD, down the back somewhere it has a little plate on the airframe with the words "invented and built here" inscribed on it. Enjoy it team.
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Join Date: Jan 2003
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Jackonocko....... Whilst the 412 is a very capable aircraft i'm just wondering where ya gonna put your 15 wet and bedraggled fishermen after you've just plucked them out of the ocean 200 miles out. !!!!
FFF.....A good friend of a friend has just returned from a tour with the Canadians and says that although they are pleased with the long range capabilities of the 101 they openly admit that for a SAR aircraft it is SERIOUSLY flawed in many other areas. (Dont believe everything you read in the glossy helicopter magazines)
As far as the 101's replacing the Sea King early next year i'm led to believe that the SAR aircraft are being extended to 2013. Or are you talking about the Navy Commando Mk 4's.
Obviously i'm playing devils advocate here but perhaps there's a case for a TWO aircraft SAR force.
Comments please !!
FFF.....A good friend of a friend has just returned from a tour with the Canadians and says that although they are pleased with the long range capabilities of the 101 they openly admit that for a SAR aircraft it is SERIOUSLY flawed in many other areas. (Dont believe everything you read in the glossy helicopter magazines)
As far as the 101's replacing the Sea King early next year i'm led to believe that the SAR aircraft are being extended to 2013. Or are you talking about the Navy Commando Mk 4's.
Obviously i'm playing devils advocate here but perhaps there's a case for a TWO aircraft SAR force.
Comments please !!
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A D ENUFF
Oh I'm sure that the glossy magazines only relate the glossy news, so to speak.
However, to my knowledge the RDAF (as in Royal Danish Air Force) does not operate any "Commando" SeaKings. Could be wrong though, would hardly be the first time.
However, to my knowledge the RDAF (as in Royal Danish Air Force) does not operate any "Commando" SeaKings. Could be wrong though, would hardly be the first time.
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A D NUFF
A two aircraft fleet would be a possiblity, but rumour on the street has it that the range of the EHI 01 means that the UK could be covered from only 3 bases - what a cost saving! I don't see the existing SKMk 3/3A fleet carrying on into the 2013's as most of them are knackered already - or is Wastelands proposing an end-of-life update?
A two aircraft fleet would be a possiblity, but rumour on the street has it that the range of the EHI 01 means that the UK could be covered from only 3 bases - what a cost saving! I don't see the existing SKMk 3/3A fleet carrying on into the 2013's as most of them are knackered already - or is Wastelands proposing an end-of-life update?
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The covering the UK from 3 bases idea sounds attractive - if you are an accountant - but getting the speed of response or generating the assets for multiple incidents spread across the whole coverage area is problematic.
Sorry, my mistake, for a moment there I forgot that this kind of decision is all about bean counting and politics and has little to do with what the people at the coal face ( and these guys are not dummies ) actually think would do a good job.
Sorry, my mistake, for a moment there I forgot that this kind of decision is all about bean counting and politics and has little to do with what the people at the coal face ( and these guys are not dummies ) actually think would do a good job.
Whilst accepting that only having 3 bases would lead to problems reacting to large incidents, is it not the idea to have additional bases around the country with smaller (ie cheaper) ac to fill in the capability gaps and response times? Obviously the Griffin has it's problems but as already mentioned the Augusta Bell seems to have a bigger cabin and still have all the toys to keep the pilots happy. It probably isn't restricted in pitch and roll as well!
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Greetings
I think that we have solved the low cabin height on the Griffin. In future all rearcrew will be 5 ft, 5 ft tall and 5 ft round. If we make them spineless as well, there is no problem with injured backs on cabin entry.
Heads down, look out for the flack.
I think that we have solved the low cabin height on the Griffin. In future all rearcrew will be 5 ft, 5 ft tall and 5 ft round. If we make them spineless as well, there is no problem with injured backs on cabin entry.
Heads down, look out for the flack.
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Could not agree more.
The accountants are not the guys in the water in an immersion suit or 1 man dingy trying to stay alive while the SAR chopper is flying the extra 250 miles+ is he.......
Those blokes make me so angry - knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing.........
I too am a great fan of the Super Jolly Green in the SAR role......
The accountants are not the guys in the water in an immersion suit or 1 man dingy trying to stay alive while the SAR chopper is flying the extra 250 miles+ is he.......
Those blokes make me so angry - knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing.........
I too am a great fan of the Super Jolly Green in the SAR role......