C17 at Gutersloh today
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Oh Beags, youve made the council estate flyers bite like a large Danish Trawler fleet. Naughty boy! And you being a civvy now! They are quite touchy arent they. Its probably because they have no one of worth to fight their corner apart from a desk officer who has 'underpants for aircrew' procurement as his primary role. Predictable to the extent that it really is more entertaining baiting rocks or blunties. Best you lay off them or they'll will call you a so and so next!
Teeny weeny airways, aircrew pacifier. You've got to be good at something. Not too sure what it is though. Soldier first?
230 aint what it used to be. But were they ever?
Yours, man at Binnsworth.
Teeny weeny airways, aircrew pacifier. You've got to be good at something. Not too sure what it is though. Soldier first?
230 aint what it used to be. But were they ever?
Yours, man at Binnsworth.
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As a matter of fact, I was speaking to the movers..yep, I can occasionally string 2 words together (between mouthfuls of dung)
and they were just as confused about the inefficient waste of money/resources etc.
Perhaps you could plan to use Gutersloh more often. The hotels in the area are rather nice
and they were just as confused about the inefficient waste of money/resources etc.Perhaps you could plan to use Gutersloh more often. The hotels in the area are rather nice
Eagle 270, yes, I suppose it is a bit like cripple-kicking....
Thoroughly agree that if Gut is available 24/7, then it should be used in preference to Hannover assuming that all the relevant ATC, fire services, customs, health, immigration, fuel, steps, ground power, catering, ops support etc are also available 24/7......which somehow I doubt.
Thoroughly agree that if Gut is available 24/7, then it should be used in preference to Hannover assuming that all the relevant ATC, fire services, customs, health, immigration, fuel, steps, ground power, catering, ops support etc are also available 24/7......which somehow I doubt.
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....and that, BEagle, hits the nail firmly and squarely on the head. You also forgot to mention how much it would cost to maintain the airfield infrastructure to as a permanent, fw, military airfield....
but that's being picky.
Not too bad this side of the fence, is it?
but that's being picky.
Not too bad this side of the fence, is it?
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Yes, but where there is a will there is a way
A major problem I hear, is that the civvy airports like Hannover are not keen on DAC or even personal weapons being shipped through.......just what I heard....
Gentlemen (crabs and ex-crabs), you miss the point. The airfield is fully functional now. Lights, aids, ATC...and so on. FGT (Bertelsmann) pay for most of the running costs just for the privilege and prestige of flying businessmen into their own private little terminal...and the military get the field for nowt.....so we throw FGT off the airfield
Makes perfect business sense to me?!!
A major problem I hear, is that the civvy airports like Hannover are not keen on DAC or even personal weapons being shipped through.......just what I heard....
Gentlemen (crabs and ex-crabs), you miss the point. The airfield is fully functional now. Lights, aids, ATC...and so on. FGT (Bertelsmann) pay for most of the running costs just for the privilege and prestige of flying businessmen into their own private little terminal...and the military get the field for nowt.....so we throw FGT off the airfield
Makes perfect business sense to me?!!
Last edited by fatjockslim; 18th Sep 2003 at 21:12.
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fjs
No - I do not feel, speaking for myself, that the point is missed at all. Speaking as someone who regularly had to schlep from Brüggen to HAJ/FMO/PAD, to handle aircraft, I can assure you that one would have much rather handled military aircraft on a secure military airhead. However, Brüggen, whilst having a great golf course, was slightly to the left of BOAR's centre of gravity, unlike Gutersloh. That is another four beer conversation.
Maintaining a fully functioning air transport airhead capable of handling fully loaded pax/freighters etc is not a simple matter of switching on some lights and having someone around with binos and a radio (with, of course, nuff respect to my ATC colleagues). Fire cover has to be maintained to a certain standard, the surfaces have to be maintained and there also should be a certain level of navaids for 24/7 ops (I would have thought). So - set up is always easy, it is the sustainability that is not.
Whilst Bertelsman may well be paying a fair wedge for the privilege, I would amazed if what he pays would actually keep the airfield operational. Surely we do not have people in contracts who are that good?
I'll get me coat.
No - I do not feel, speaking for myself, that the point is missed at all. Speaking as someone who regularly had to schlep from Brüggen to HAJ/FMO/PAD, to handle aircraft, I can assure you that one would have much rather handled military aircraft on a secure military airhead.
However, Brüggen, whilst having a great golf course, was slightly to the left of BOAR's centre of gravity, unlike Gutersloh. That is another four beer conversation.Maintaining a fully functioning air transport airhead capable of handling fully loaded pax/freighters etc is not a simple matter of switching on some lights and having someone around with binos and a radio (with, of course, nuff respect to my ATC colleagues). Fire cover has to be maintained to a certain standard, the surfaces have to be maintained and there also should be a certain level of navaids for 24/7 ops (I would have thought). So - set up is always easy, it is the sustainability that is not.
Whilst Bertelsman may well be paying a fair wedge for the privilege, I would amazed if what he pays would actually keep the airfield operational. Surely we do not have people in contracts who are that good?
I'll get me coat.
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Gutersloh is a fully functioning, operational military airfield, with a proper military ATC unit with PAR, ILS and a rather nice runway. It has a fire section operating to H3A which would need augmenting to handle large aircraft on a regular basis.
We also have a nice golf course
It is hard to believe, that we really could have our cake and eat it, but that is the case, but now someone wants to throw away the cake
We also have a nice golf course
It is hard to believe, that we really could have our cake and eat it, but that is the case, but now someone wants to throw away the cake
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Princess Royal Barracks
When the Army took over Gutersloh in 1993 there was in place a rule that stated the airfield should be returnable to RAF usage within 30 days. This probably made a degree of sense at the time but prevented us from making small, but sensible, changes to the infrastructure to reflected its new use. Given the current usage of the other clutch airfields now the 30 Day Rule does not seem to have stood the test of time.
What many of us could not understand was why air trooping flights could not use Gutersloh as they had done while it was owned by the RAF? According the Air Traffic Flt Lt who worked in the tower, there was a further agreement that permitted only 40 (free?) military aircraft movements each year. For those of us who had previously air trooped through Gutersloh to go to Bunde or Osnatraz, being based in Gutersloh, on an active airfield, but having to travel to Munster or Paderborn to fly back to Blighty made no sense whatsoever. Clearly far greater minds than minder thought up that piece of brilliance.
Anyway, it was a great place where I spent many drunken and happy times.
What many of us could not understand was why air trooping flights could not use Gutersloh as they had done while it was owned by the RAF? According the Air Traffic Flt Lt who worked in the tower, there was a further agreement that permitted only 40 (free?) military aircraft movements each year. For those of us who had previously air trooped through Gutersloh to go to Bunde or Osnatraz, being based in Gutersloh, on an active airfield, but having to travel to Munster or Paderborn to fly back to Blighty made no sense whatsoever. Clearly far greater minds than minder thought up that piece of brilliance.
Anyway, it was a great place where I spent many drunken and happy times.
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Now lets not get childish about this. The RAF only gave up airfields it no longer needed and only once those decisions had been taken did the Army enter the fray. Wattisham is still available as an active airfield - albeit with a shorter runway I believe.
Overall the Army's approach to estate management/maintenance is not as good as the RAF's because culturally the RAF see the airfield as part of the fighting equipment and the Army view UK bases as garissons from which to prepare for ops.
Overall the Army's approach to estate management/maintenance is not as good as the RAF's because culturally the RAF see the airfield as part of the fighting equipment and the Army view UK bases as garissons from which to prepare for ops.
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Gutersloh aaaah I remeber it well, in the days of Lightnings and Whirlwinds (230Sqn) , followed by 18 sqn with their noisier Wessex. It does however evoke even greater memories I got married at Gutersloh in the PMUB Church, in 1965..not sure if thats a good or bad memory, but we are still together so something worked. Only the Church has gone!!
Went back in 1995 for our 30th anniversary, full of trucks and other Army type things...but nevertheless looked after well by the boys in brown.
A C17 at Gutersloh wow must have been like heaven for the Air Tragics on duty. As for Herr Bertelsman...well he aint all bad as we still have one of his washing machines!!
PS Is the ghost of Goebbels still walking the corridors of the O/Mess
Went back in 1995 for our 30th anniversary, full of trucks and other Army type things...but nevertheless looked after well by the boys in brown.
A C17 at Gutersloh wow must have been like heaven for the Air Tragics on duty. As for Herr Bertelsman...well he aint all bad as we still have one of his washing machines!!
PS Is the ghost of Goebbels still walking the corridors of the O/Mess
Ahhh...what a delightful Officers' Mess, complete with vomitarium in the cellar bar and Goering's Room with the collapsing light fitting, pleasant memories...and many nights when too many 'Wobblies' meant I can't remember anything at all 
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I believe the light fitting scam is still there. Long live Gut O's mess!
I heard a story. In the zillion years that the RAF were at Gut, they suffered 5 RTA's. Once the pongo's took over and decided to change the road priorities and place large lumps of concrete in the roads and make parts of it 'one way', they suffered 25 RTA's in the first month of ownership. And this from the professional drivers wing of the dung eaters!
I await with baited breath to see what they do with Lyneham! Quick extension of SPTA and turn it into 'an urban training area'. God forbid!!
I heard a story. In the zillion years that the RAF were at Gut, they suffered 5 RTA's. Once the pongo's took over and decided to change the road priorities and place large lumps of concrete in the roads and make parts of it 'one way', they suffered 25 RTA's in the first month of ownership. And this from the professional drivers wing of the dung eaters!
I await with baited breath to see what they do with Lyneham! Quick extension of SPTA and turn it into 'an urban training area'. God forbid!!
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There was a VERY good reason for introducing the oneway system - the Brigader did not like traffic driving past his office! Mind you, he initially wanted to use the ATC tower as his office, apparently, he could get an excellent view of all his trucks
