Iran Air 655 Incident- ACI last night.
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My V70 has developed a kind of haze over the headlamps. They are the plastic covered, wrap around jobs rather than glass.
Volvo want an arm and a leg for new units, complete with bulb housing and back end, but the only issue is with the front. Oddly, there seems to be a clear patch just where the headlamp wash jets hit the surface, but no amount of scrubbing it with hot soapy water and a stiff brush seems to help.
Anyone out there seen this on their car?
Volvo want an arm and a leg for new units, complete with bulb housing and back end, but the only issue is with the front. Oddly, there seems to be a clear patch just where the headlamp wash jets hit the surface, but no amount of scrubbing it with hot soapy water and a stiff brush seems to help.
Anyone out there seen this on their car?
ilesmark, except that my story is true - I was flying the jet at the time.
Re. the problems with scrubbing out your vulv.....Volvo, airpolice, have you been driving it fast in sandy or dusty conditions? You could try some plastic polish, perhaps. Or toothpaste if you can't source plastic polish - it works quite well on many plastics.
Re. the problems with scrubbing out your vulv.....Volvo, airpolice, have you been driving it fast in sandy or dusty conditions? You could try some plastic polish, perhaps. Or toothpaste if you can't source plastic polish - it works quite well on many plastics.
Thanks to LJ101 the official DoD report has the line that I've been waiting to see...
I've added my "?"s for the redacted Secret parts in the quote. That would say to me that the crew did have significant suspiscion of the F14's A-G capability from their intel sources. Sadly, it looks like the Mode II switch to the Airbus track was the real killer and as some have said before, this has real similarities to the Patriot vs GR4 in 2003.
Given this information, I can now understand why the Skipper did what he did. Yes, he got it wrong in hindsight, but as we all know that this is a wonderful thing!!!
The B Word
(?) For several months preceding the Air Bus shootdown, the US had received reports of Iranian efforts to improve their ability to attack US men-of-war. These included attempts to outfit both aircraft and small boats for ???????????? suicide assaults, to reconfigure F-4s, F14s, and other types of aircraft to carry a variety of air-to-surface missiles, and to develop small boat “swarm” tactics which could break through a ship’s defensive gunfire…In fact, we had been warned of the possibility of some type of assault on the 4th of July weekend.
(U) Of especial interest was the recent shift of Iranian F-14s from Bushehr to Bandar Abbas. In the few days preceding this incident several F-14 flights, operating from Bandar Abbas, took place in the Southern Gulf. On 2 July, USS HALSEY had to warn away a potentially threatening Iranian F-14.
(U) Of especial interest was the recent shift of Iranian F-14s from Bushehr to Bandar Abbas. In the few days preceding this incident several F-14 flights, operating from Bandar Abbas, took place in the Southern Gulf. On 2 July, USS HALSEY had to warn away a potentially threatening Iranian F-14.
Given this information, I can now understand why the Skipper did what he did. Yes, he got it wrong in hindsight, but as we all know that this is a wonderful thing!!!
The B Word
When warned that this was a 'possible COMAIR' (commercial aircraft), the CO reponded by raising his hand....
It is obvious that NOTHING would have changed his mindset, even at the late stage he was warned.....
Fogarty's report refers to Iranian air tracks as 'enemy'. When exactly did the US declare war on Iran?
It is obvious that NOTHING would have changed his mindset, even at the late stage he was warned.....
Fogarty's report refers to Iranian air tracks as 'enemy'. When exactly did the US declare war on Iran?
I do not agree with how jakey went about this, but likewise I do not agree with trying to defend the indefensible.
Fogarty's report refers to Iranian air tracks as 'enemy'. When exactly did
the US declare war on Iran?
BEagle, you will note that the ships who hailed you and got your tampon all bunched up are not Air Traffic Control, and most likely do not have your flight plan on file. (Aside: most AAW ships I ever worked on had plots of common routes as overlays. This varied with year and where we were, not sure what current practice is. Been a few years since I was at sea).
They do, however, have airspace monitoring responsibility based upon their military mission, and they therefore challenge whomever fits into a certain volume of airspace in certain profiles.
If you don't like that, too damned bad.
Go fly somewhere else in the world. The world is a dangerous place sometimes, and in some places.
They've got the guns, you don't.
Your whinging attitude isn't something I find most pilots carrying in their kit bag.
Beyond that, it is not necessary to declare war upon one another in order to shoot at one another. US and Iran had been exchanging lead since Operations Ernest Will, and Preying Mantis, in the year previous to the Vincennes. Indeed, you might note that the US and North Viet Nam managed to shoot at each other for about a decade without a declaration of war.
Get a clue. There's a real world out there, and it has some pretty rough edges. Your demonstration of wilful ignorance is risible.
For the following, AAW - Anti Air Warfare.
glojo: your adoration of USS Sides ignores the sad reality that in the 1980's (long before CORT programs) the Oliver Hazard Perry Class frigates were referred to by many as the Helen Keller Class. As Anti Air Warfare platforms, their sensors and Data Link inputs were routinely crap, utter crap. I served on both those and Aegis Cruisers. The differences were in orders of magnitude.
That doesn't make Sidess CO's situational awareness utterly wrong, nor right, but it informs you perhaps on why the CO of the premier AAW platform in the fleet would take Sides' input with a grain of salt, at best. Even a less arrogant guy than Rogers would be hard pressed to take Helen Keller's input over his own systems.
I guess you wouldn't know any of that unless you knew something about Naval Operations. I happen to.
But CO of Sides DID have the link picture, which more or less was being vetted and put out by Vincennes. It it to his credit that he looked at a similar situation and spoke up, most likely knowing that Alpha Whiskey would not necessarily find his input worthy.
This second class citizen status (which from a technical perspective, was utterly warranted at the time) seemed to me at the time part of the axe he had to grind, as other Frigate Captains (actually ranked Commander) at the time also expressed. Can't say I blame him, since his assessment was closer to the mark.
Captain Rogers (on his second command, and an actual Captain in rank) also had the "cockpit gradient" or "rank gradient" going for him, in terms of not only having the better ship, but being THE AAW guy for the battle force, and being "the senior one" present. His personality probably took care of the rest.
It would have taken something extraordinary for him to consider the input of Sides as an override on his situation assessment. Sadly, hell, tragically, the CO of Sides was unable to penetrate the headspace and timing of one cruiser captain.
The following years' flame wars -- if we can use an internet aphorism for an in-print fire storm -- among American professional naval officers featured a certain partisan alignment with the Sides' CO (whom numerous officers with the AAW specialty aligned with) and the Vincennes' CO (whom another group, many also with AAW specialty, sided with).
Don't pretend Sides was an equivalent AAW platform. It wasn't.
The CO, however, did have more or less the same "big picture" to look at, and came to different conclusions than CO Vincennes did, which in hindsight was shown to be a better read of the situation.
Being right still needs to be effectively communicated.
See Cassandra, eh?
They do, however, have airspace monitoring responsibility based upon their military mission, and they therefore challenge whomever fits into a certain volume of airspace in certain profiles.
If you don't like that, too damned bad.
Go fly somewhere else in the world. The world is a dangerous place sometimes, and in some places.
They've got the guns, you don't.
Your whinging attitude isn't something I find most pilots carrying in their kit bag.
Beyond that, it is not necessary to declare war upon one another in order to shoot at one another. US and Iran had been exchanging lead since Operations Ernest Will, and Preying Mantis, in the year previous to the Vincennes. Indeed, you might note that the US and North Viet Nam managed to shoot at each other for about a decade without a declaration of war.
Get a clue. There's a real world out there, and it has some pretty rough edges. Your demonstration of wilful ignorance is risible.
For the following, AAW - Anti Air Warfare.
glojo: your adoration of USS Sides ignores the sad reality that in the 1980's (long before CORT programs) the Oliver Hazard Perry Class frigates were referred to by many as the Helen Keller Class. As Anti Air Warfare platforms, their sensors and Data Link inputs were routinely crap, utter crap. I served on both those and Aegis Cruisers. The differences were in orders of magnitude.
That doesn't make Sidess CO's situational awareness utterly wrong, nor right, but it informs you perhaps on why the CO of the premier AAW platform in the fleet would take Sides' input with a grain of salt, at best. Even a less arrogant guy than Rogers would be hard pressed to take Helen Keller's input over his own systems.
I guess you wouldn't know any of that unless you knew something about Naval Operations. I happen to.
But CO of Sides DID have the link picture, which more or less was being vetted and put out by Vincennes. It it to his credit that he looked at a similar situation and spoke up, most likely knowing that Alpha Whiskey would not necessarily find his input worthy.
This second class citizen status (which from a technical perspective, was utterly warranted at the time) seemed to me at the time part of the axe he had to grind, as other Frigate Captains (actually ranked Commander) at the time also expressed. Can't say I blame him, since his assessment was closer to the mark.
Captain Rogers (on his second command, and an actual Captain in rank) also had the "cockpit gradient" or "rank gradient" going for him, in terms of not only having the better ship, but being THE AAW guy for the battle force, and being "the senior one" present. His personality probably took care of the rest.
It would have taken something extraordinary for him to consider the input of Sides as an override on his situation assessment. Sadly, hell, tragically, the CO of Sides was unable to penetrate the headspace and timing of one cruiser captain.
The following years' flame wars -- if we can use an internet aphorism for an in-print fire storm -- among American professional naval officers featured a certain partisan alignment with the Sides' CO (whom numerous officers with the AAW specialty aligned with) and the Vincennes' CO (whom another group, many also with AAW specialty, sided with).
Don't pretend Sides was an equivalent AAW platform. It wasn't.
The CO, however, did have more or less the same "big picture" to look at, and came to different conclusions than CO Vincennes did, which in hindsight was shown to be a better read of the situation.
Being right still needs to be effectively communicated.
See Cassandra, eh?
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 18th Jul 2012 at 21:28.
...you will note that the ships who hailed you and got your tampon all bunched up are not Air Traffic Control, and most likely do not have your flight plan on file...If you don't like that, too damned bad...
Go fly somewhere else in the world. The world is a dangerous place sometimes, and in some places, they've got the guns, you don't.
Your whinging attitude isn't something I find most pilots carrying in their kit bag.
Go fly somewhere else in the world. The world is a dangerous place sometimes, and in some places, they've got the guns, you don't.
Your whinging attitude isn't something I find most pilots carrying in their kit bag.
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Accountability.
What would have been the outcome if the boat had been British, Russian, French, Australian?
All the fogging the issue that it could have been a F-14 adopting the flight plan and profile of a schedule on an airway is merely excuse.
Did the skipper ever front up and say, "I f****d up" and take the can as his position and rank dictated? Nope - he got a medal. Should have got 12 years in pokey.
If the excuses being made here were in the least viable there'd be airliners being blasted out of the sky on a daily basis.
It alas is a far too frequent happening with the septics that they shoot first and work out a story as a secondary action.
All the fogging the issue that it could have been a F-14 adopting the flight plan and profile of a schedule on an airway is merely excuse.
Did the skipper ever front up and say, "I f****d up" and take the can as his position and rank dictated? Nope - he got a medal. Should have got 12 years in pokey.
If the excuses being made here were in the least viable there'd be airliners being blasted out of the sky on a daily basis.
It alas is a far too frequent happening with the septics that they shoot first and work out a story as a secondary action.
"Unidentified aircraft at (our position), this is Red Crown on Guard. Identify yourself!"
"Say please!"
"Err, unidentified postion at (our position), please identify yourself"
"Ascot **** in company with Ascot *****, Halaifa 1014, FL220 estimating Wejh at 1037. As per Flight Plan!"
"Uhh, ahh, roger, you're cleared to proceed"
"Absolutely right. Goodbye"
BEagle - Well I thought it was funny but, to be fair to Lonewolf, he does say, " Been a few years since I was at sea." .
"Say please!"
"Err, unidentified postion at (our position), please identify yourself"
"Ascot **** in company with Ascot *****, Halaifa 1014, FL220 estimating Wejh at 1037. As per Flight Plan!"
"Uhh, ahh, roger, you're cleared to proceed"
"Absolutely right. Goodbye"
BEagle - Well I thought it was funny but, to be fair to Lonewolf, he does say, " Been a few years since I was at sea." .
Go fly somewhere else in the world.
And stay there!
Of course, us Brits are never trigger happy are we? Unless you want to recall some instances in Northern Island - Bloody Sunday and LCpl Clegg are 2 of the higher profile events. There have also been Brit blue on blues in Afghanistan more recently as well Afghanistan: list of investigations and prosecutions of British troops | News | The Guardian
Our glass house is not very impervious to stones!
LJ
Our glass house is not very impervious to stones!
LJ
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 19th Jul 2012 at 00:05.
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I was working in Dubai during the period immediately prior to this very unfortunate event. Our operations room had a VHF scanner that, among other frequencies, monitored 121.5. We often heard USN warships challenging civilian aircraft and usually receiving a response; though not always immediately. I several times commented on the fact the USN radio operators sounded under pressure, frequently bordering on emotional; it was a feeling one grasped just listening, in a word; tense. I also commented on a couple of occasions the whole scenario was developing into an accident waiting to happen. Pressure, stress, emotion and perhaps even a touch of fear, even in small quantities, are conditions that frequently become contagious. Based on my impressions at the time I would suggest that within most ships engaged in this task, there was already a highly stressful environment, an environment on a hair trigger. There was a backdrop of apprehension already in place. The subsequent events have already been flogged to death and need no input from me.
However, in closing, I venture the opinion that the suggestion this was an act of murder is simply asinine.
However, in closing, I venture the opinion that the suggestion this was an act of murder is simply asinine.
We surely owe Beags an apology.....as it must be a heavy burden putting up with others when one is perfect in every way!
I don't suppose the UK forces have ever made a mistake or that some ship's Captain lost the plot for some reason and caused the death of innocent folks?
If you watched the video taken aboard the Vicennes the day of the shoot down....the look of horror on the faces of the crew when they realized the error that had been made.....would indicate to you how much it hurt them to know they had just shot down an airliner.
This constant complaint about Cowboys and such does get old. The military forces in that region are there because of the national security issues of both your country and mine....and are serving in very difficult circumstances and doing a very darn good job overall. The threat to their safety is real and they have to be able to protect themselves and do so in accordance to the ROE's that are handed down to them by their Commanders.
In my time hearing from Red Crown was a blessing....twas them that wuz gonna send the SAR boys after your screaming ass when you were shot down.
.
I don't suppose the UK forces have ever made a mistake or that some ship's Captain lost the plot for some reason and caused the death of innocent folks?
If you watched the video taken aboard the Vicennes the day of the shoot down....the look of horror on the faces of the crew when they realized the error that had been made.....would indicate to you how much it hurt them to know they had just shot down an airliner.
This constant complaint about Cowboys and such does get old. The military forces in that region are there because of the national security issues of both your country and mine....and are serving in very difficult circumstances and doing a very darn good job overall. The threat to their safety is real and they have to be able to protect themselves and do so in accordance to the ROE's that are handed down to them by their Commanders.
In my time hearing from Red Crown was a blessing....twas them that wuz gonna send the SAR boys after your screaming ass when you were shot down.
.
Last edited by SASless; 19th Jul 2012 at 03:43.
)
A persistent knob, though. I looked at the websites he alleges supported his world view. It's true most of the posts on them agreed with him, because most were by him.
And the times he posts do rather agree with the analysis that his mummy and daddy swich his PC off at bedtime.
And the times he posts do rather agree with the analysis that his mummy and daddy swich his PC off at bedtime.
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SASless,
No-one has suggested that the Brits don't make mistakes - LJ's post just 4 hours before you indicates some of them. However, with regards to 'cowboys'; unfortunately, IMHO, some of the posters here were wearing their 10 gallon hats whilst posting! And the intimation - from some - was that Vincennes did nothing wrong - it was the fault of the Iranian airliner in an Internationally recognised airway for flying close to an American warship .
Surely, this was a dreadful mistake that should have been preventable. And, perhaps, the CO should have been made to answer for his decisons. Was it murder? No. Was it manslaughter culpable or not? I don't know.
As regards BEagle's story, I've been told, on Guard, to desist from operating on a NATO promulgated task in the UK FIR by a US Warship. We did. It was Friday night.
Duncs
No-one has suggested that the Brits don't make mistakes - LJ's post just 4 hours before you indicates some of them. However, with regards to 'cowboys'; unfortunately, IMHO, some of the posters here were wearing their 10 gallon hats whilst posting! And the intimation - from some - was that Vincennes did nothing wrong - it was the fault of the Iranian airliner in an Internationally recognised airway for flying close to an American warship .
Surely, this was a dreadful mistake that should have been preventable. And, perhaps, the CO should have been made to answer for his decisons. Was it murder? No. Was it manslaughter culpable or not? I don't know.
As regards BEagle's story, I've been told, on Guard, to desist from operating on a NATO promulgated task in the UK FIR by a US Warship. We did. It was Friday night.
Duncs