Russian Overflights by RAF Crews during the "Cold War"
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FlyPast
Pindi
Re. an article about RB-45 overflights in Russia published in "FlyPast", several years ago. I have been in touch with the Editor, who has very kindly done a search for the article, but came up empty handed.
If there are any members out there, that have the article, would they please contact me with the possibility of sending a copy as an attachment.
Thank you.
Re. an article about RB-45 overflights in Russia published in "FlyPast", several years ago. I have been in touch with the Editor, who has very kindly done a search for the article, but came up empty handed.
If there are any members out there, that have the article, would they please contact me with the possibility of sending a copy as an attachment.
Thank you.
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Russian Overflights
Gainesy & Pindi
Got there in the end. The John Crampton missions were published in the August 1997 edition of "Air Pictorial" !! What an amazing tool Google is. There is a copy wending it's way to me as I speak.
Many thanks.
Got there in the end. The John Crampton missions were published in the August 1997 edition of "Air Pictorial" !! What an amazing tool Google is. There is a copy wending it's way to me as I speak.
Many thanks.
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I'd try Aeroplane anyway as they have had articles on RB-45 (RAF) and Canberra recce flight's. And the editor's (Mick Oakey) Dad was Boss of an RAF recce Canberra Squadron
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Air Pictorial August 1997
I have just been in touch with David Baker who is the Editor of "Aviation News" & asked if he would allow me to share John Crampton's article with members of "PPRuNe". He has very kindly agreed, so long as it is not used in any commercial way. Aren't Aviation people super !
This is a long, but really interesting article, so be warned.
Russian photo-shoot
In this feature, Sqn Ldr John Crampton reveals for the first time his part in the top secret RAF operation in the 1950's to photograph Russia's ICBMs.
In July 1951, I was the happy Boss of No 97 (Lincoln) Sqn, when the C-in-C Bomber Command sent for me and said that I was to assume command of a Special Duty Flight in conditions of utmost secrecy. The Flight would be equipped with North American RB-45C four-jet strategic reconnaissance aircraft and the crews concerned would proceed almost immediatly to the United States to begin training on the aircraft.
The Flight was to comprise of three aircraft, each with a crew of two pilots and a navigator. The other eight aircrew, as much in the dark as I was about our immediate future, joined me at RAF Sculthorpe to be flown to the USA for a 60-day detachment. Accordingly, we left Sculthorpe aboard a C-97 Stratofreighter on August 3, 1951,bound for Barksdale AFB Louisiana. There we spent ten days with a B-45 squadron, getting to grips with the aircraft before moving on to Langley AFB, Virginia, for introduction to the more advanced RB-45C version. On September 2, we flew up to Lockbourne AFB, near Columbus, Ohio, home of the 91st Strategic Reconnaissance Wing, operating the only three squadrons flying the RB-45C. No 323 Sqn was in residence, the other two being in England (Sculthorpe) and Japan. We received a short, but excellent, conversion course.
In our second month of flying at Lockbourne, one of my pilots made a very heavy landing one night. The aircraft was written off, but the crew were unhurt. The dramatic result of this was that Lockbourne's Base Commander, myself and the pilot were flown to Omaha, headquarters of Strategic Air Command there to be interviewed by General Curtis LeMay, who did not like people who broke his aircraft and left us in no doubt of the fact. His anger was directed mainly at the wretched pilot, who departed from the USA shortly afterwards. I learned subsequently that he had not so much been posted to me as posted away from his unit, where he had a reputation as a "pranger". He was replaced by an RAF pilot already seconded to a USAF B-45 unit. We completed our Conversion and returned to Sculthorpe where we became an additional flight with the resident RB-45C squadron. We still had no idea what was planned for us There was much speculation, mostly centred on comparative trials of the Boeing flying-boom in flight refuelling method against the probe and drogue favoured by the RAF. It was a tense time for us and our hosts because nine RAF aircrew flying with an elite USAF squadron raised eyebrows, which we were unable to lower. The situation eased when Colonel "Hak" Mixson, USAF arrived as our Liason Officer and fielded many of the questions.
Before my PC or the Network "bomb-out" I will submit this & continue another reply.
This is a long, but really interesting article, so be warned.
Russian photo-shoot
In this feature, Sqn Ldr John Crampton reveals for the first time his part in the top secret RAF operation in the 1950's to photograph Russia's ICBMs.
In July 1951, I was the happy Boss of No 97 (Lincoln) Sqn, when the C-in-C Bomber Command sent for me and said that I was to assume command of a Special Duty Flight in conditions of utmost secrecy. The Flight would be equipped with North American RB-45C four-jet strategic reconnaissance aircraft and the crews concerned would proceed almost immediatly to the United States to begin training on the aircraft.
The Flight was to comprise of three aircraft, each with a crew of two pilots and a navigator. The other eight aircrew, as much in the dark as I was about our immediate future, joined me at RAF Sculthorpe to be flown to the USA for a 60-day detachment. Accordingly, we left Sculthorpe aboard a C-97 Stratofreighter on August 3, 1951,bound for Barksdale AFB Louisiana. There we spent ten days with a B-45 squadron, getting to grips with the aircraft before moving on to Langley AFB, Virginia, for introduction to the more advanced RB-45C version. On September 2, we flew up to Lockbourne AFB, near Columbus, Ohio, home of the 91st Strategic Reconnaissance Wing, operating the only three squadrons flying the RB-45C. No 323 Sqn was in residence, the other two being in England (Sculthorpe) and Japan. We received a short, but excellent, conversion course.
In our second month of flying at Lockbourne, one of my pilots made a very heavy landing one night. The aircraft was written off, but the crew were unhurt. The dramatic result of this was that Lockbourne's Base Commander, myself and the pilot were flown to Omaha, headquarters of Strategic Air Command there to be interviewed by General Curtis LeMay, who did not like people who broke his aircraft and left us in no doubt of the fact. His anger was directed mainly at the wretched pilot, who departed from the USA shortly afterwards. I learned subsequently that he had not so much been posted to me as posted away from his unit, where he had a reputation as a "pranger". He was replaced by an RAF pilot already seconded to a USAF B-45 unit. We completed our Conversion and returned to Sculthorpe where we became an additional flight with the resident RB-45C squadron. We still had no idea what was planned for us There was much speculation, mostly centred on comparative trials of the Boeing flying-boom in flight refuelling method against the probe and drogue favoured by the RAF. It was a tense time for us and our hosts because nine RAF aircrew flying with an elite USAF squadron raised eyebrows, which we were unable to lower. The situation eased when Colonel "Hak" Mixson, USAF arrived as our Liason Officer and fielded many of the questions.
Before my PC or the Network "bomb-out" I will submit this & continue another reply.
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Air Pictorial August 1997 Pt2.
Early in 1952 I was summoned to High Wycombe with my navigator Rex Sanders. This was the moment of truth and I confess to some apprehension when the charts were unrolled to show three seperate tracks from Sculthorpe to the Baltic States, the Moscow area and Central Southern Russia. The deal was for these three routes to be flown simultaneously, departing Sculthorp in rapid succession to rendezvous with the tankers to the North of Denmark. After a maximum top-up we were to climb at maximum continuous power at about Mach No 0.68, to the highest altitude the temperature of the night would allow. Our "targets" were ICBM sites and similar strategically important areas. We were to take 35mm photos of the aircraft's radar display when the targets were locatd and identified. Timing was to be critical because our intelligence agencies would be listening for Soviet reaction to our penetration of their airspace and had certain diversionary exercises for keeping them clear of our routes. We were, of course, to fly without navigation lights and maintain R/T silence, although we would have an OMG (O My God) frequency for desperate emergency. It was a relief finally to know what was expected of us, although I felt some concern at the thought of briefing my crews who, it must be remembered, were not volunteers. My fears were justified and one of the original pilots washed his hands of the whole affair and returned to his parent unit, where I feared he might well entertain his chums to this extrordinary tale, to the prejudice of our security. He was replaced by yet another pilot already flying B-45's on an exchange posting in America.
Before the date of our live sorties had been fixed, I took my crew on a gentle probe of the defences by flying over the Soviet Zone of Eastern Germany for half an hour or so, whilst our intelligence people monitored Russian radio and radar activity. Nothing was noted and so we were all set for the big one. Four aircraft (three active and one spare) had been allocated to us and these had to be stripped of all USAF markings and repainted in RAF colours. Security shackles were further weakened because to do this job in time, two of our aircraft were flown to nearby RAF West Raynham, where a hangar was cleared and several gallons of paint stripper were put to good use by a number of very mystified airmen. In the event of one of our aircraft falling into Russian hands, the United States would point to the paint job and disclaim all knowiedge, similarly, the RAF would state that it had no RB-45C's on inventory. How well this improbable tale, told by a six foot six inch old-Harrovian, would go down with the Russians was fortunately never put to the test. our story would be that we were lost, a gross professional insult to my crew and myself, but an acceptable one if dire need arose - and we should have false charts to back our claim.
So late in the afternoon .....
I will continue the actual flight, tomorrow.
Before the date of our live sorties had been fixed, I took my crew on a gentle probe of the defences by flying over the Soviet Zone of Eastern Germany for half an hour or so, whilst our intelligence people monitored Russian radio and radar activity. Nothing was noted and so we were all set for the big one. Four aircraft (three active and one spare) had been allocated to us and these had to be stripped of all USAF markings and repainted in RAF colours. Security shackles were further weakened because to do this job in time, two of our aircraft were flown to nearby RAF West Raynham, where a hangar was cleared and several gallons of paint stripper were put to good use by a number of very mystified airmen. In the event of one of our aircraft falling into Russian hands, the United States would point to the paint job and disclaim all knowiedge, similarly, the RAF would state that it had no RB-45C's on inventory. How well this improbable tale, told by a six foot six inch old-Harrovian, would go down with the Russians was fortunately never put to the test. our story would be that we were lost, a gross professional insult to my crew and myself, but an acceptable one if dire need arose - and we should have false charts to back our claim.
So late in the afternoon .....
I will continue the actual flight, tomorrow.
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Air Pictorial August 1997 PART 3.
And so, in the late afternoon of a fine April day in 1952, the three "RAF" RB-45Cs departed from Scuithorpe and headed towards the Skagerrak. We picked up our tankers, took on every pound of fuel we could, broke away, doused all the lights and headed south-east into the black night. All was going well and Rex Sanders was getting good plots on his radar and feeding me with the courses to steer to the targets. We had the long haul, south-east across Russia. Sgt Lindsay, my co-pilot, gave us confidence-inspiring reports on the aicraft's systems and told us that we were flying on the right side of the fuel consumption curve.
My most abiding memory of the route is the apparent wilderness over which we were flying. There were no lights on the ground, nor any sign of human habitation - quite unlike the rest of Europe. We continued our gentle climb at a Mach No of about 0.68 to 36,000 ft and covered our briefed route, taking the target photographs as planned. It was all so quiet as to be distinctly eerie. Finally, we turned for home and in due course began the let down to Sculthorpe. We landed without incident, after ten hours and 20 minutes in the air. The two other aircraft covered all their targets - and the operation had been a success.
A few days later we flew our aircraft, still in RAF markings, to Lockbourne AFB, Ohio and the following day we travelled to Omaha, where I again met General LeMay under happier circumstances. He was gracious in his compliments. It was all very heart warming. We returned to England where to my surprise I did not resume command of No 97 Sqn, but was given No 101 at Binbrook, recently re-equiped with the RAF's first Canberras - a bit like landing the Spring Double. At Binbrook, I quickly settled in to the squadron commander's chair and rather less comfortably into the pilot's seat of the Canberra, which seemed very snall after the RB-45C, not unlike a Ford Escort after a stretched Cadillac !
But after a few months, in October 1952, I was summoned back to Bomber Command, informed that the Special Duty Flight was to be reformed and asked if I would take over command again. I found myself accepting it and a few days later we were welcomed back by 'Hak' Mixson at Sculthorpe and got back into the old routine. There were a few crew changes. Rex Sanders stayed with me, but Sgt Lindsay had been involved in an RAF B-29 crash and his place was taken by Flt Lt 'MacFurze', or more properly McAlistair Furze, one of my flight commanders on 101. This was an inspired choice on my part because Mac rapidly became an expert on the aircraft and its systems and would have elbowed me out of the captain's seat given half the chance. We flew hard throught November and by the beginning of December, when we were trained to concert pitch, the show was suddenly cancelled and we were ordered back to our units. Among the rumours floating around was the belief that the risk at that time was too great. If any one of us had gone down in Russia, the balloon might have gone up !
I will continue with the second overflight, which nearly ended in disaster, tomorrow.
My most abiding memory of the route is the apparent wilderness over which we were flying. There were no lights on the ground, nor any sign of human habitation - quite unlike the rest of Europe. We continued our gentle climb at a Mach No of about 0.68 to 36,000 ft and covered our briefed route, taking the target photographs as planned. It was all so quiet as to be distinctly eerie. Finally, we turned for home and in due course began the let down to Sculthorpe. We landed without incident, after ten hours and 20 minutes in the air. The two other aircraft covered all their targets - and the operation had been a success.
A few days later we flew our aircraft, still in RAF markings, to Lockbourne AFB, Ohio and the following day we travelled to Omaha, where I again met General LeMay under happier circumstances. He was gracious in his compliments. It was all very heart warming. We returned to England where to my surprise I did not resume command of No 97 Sqn, but was given No 101 at Binbrook, recently re-equiped with the RAF's first Canberras - a bit like landing the Spring Double. At Binbrook, I quickly settled in to the squadron commander's chair and rather less comfortably into the pilot's seat of the Canberra, which seemed very snall after the RB-45C, not unlike a Ford Escort after a stretched Cadillac !
But after a few months, in October 1952, I was summoned back to Bomber Command, informed that the Special Duty Flight was to be reformed and asked if I would take over command again. I found myself accepting it and a few days later we were welcomed back by 'Hak' Mixson at Sculthorpe and got back into the old routine. There were a few crew changes. Rex Sanders stayed with me, but Sgt Lindsay had been involved in an RAF B-29 crash and his place was taken by Flt Lt 'MacFurze', or more properly McAlistair Furze, one of my flight commanders on 101. This was an inspired choice on my part because Mac rapidly became an expert on the aircraft and its systems and would have elbowed me out of the captain's seat given half the chance. We flew hard throught November and by the beginning of December, when we were trained to concert pitch, the show was suddenly cancelled and we were ordered back to our units. Among the rumours floating around was the belief that the risk at that time was too great. If any one of us had gone down in Russia, the balloon might have gone up !
I will continue with the second overflight, which nearly ended in disaster, tomorrow.
Overflights
Pity we did know of these exploits when Bob Furze was OC "A" Squadron at Cranwell - would have made him a much more interesting boss (I guess "God" in those days!). Is that what won him his AFC?
Wander00
Wander00
Last edited by Wander00; 2nd Jul 2009 at 11:13.
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Air Pictorial August 1997 Part 4.
Thank you
My tour with 101 came to an end in July 1953 and I was posted to HQ No 1 Group at Bawtry from where, after ten very indifferent months as an operations officer, I was again summoned to High Wycombe, told that the SDF was to be revived and again asked if I would take it on. I had begun to view the entire project as mine and would have been most upset if the job had been offered to anyone else. So, in March 1954, it was back to Sculthorpe, 'Hak' Mixson, the big stretched Cadillacs, American flying clothing and the American language plus the raised eyebrows. I was concerned that our cover might well have been blown because so many people knew that we were up to something, even if they were not sure what. The super-efficient flight line procedures under which the crew could call stores or any other department at Sculthorpe using walkie-talkies, to discuss our aircraft problems and movements in uncoded language, was also a worry. The least competent Soviet spy or sympathiser in the locality with a small radio tuned to the American frequency could have written a manual on events at Sculthorpe! Anyway after a months hard work, during which the four assigned aircraft were repainted in RAF colours, I went to Bomber Command accompanied by the faithful Rex Sanders, to collect the flight plans which again showed three routes north, central and a much longer southern route which would require in-flight refuelling outbound as well as inbound. this is the one I chose.
This is the third time that I have tried typing this (one forefinger key stabbing) & the sytem keeps bouncing me out, so I shortened it this time.
My tour with 101 came to an end in July 1953 and I was posted to HQ No 1 Group at Bawtry from where, after ten very indifferent months as an operations officer, I was again summoned to High Wycombe, told that the SDF was to be revived and again asked if I would take it on. I had begun to view the entire project as mine and would have been most upset if the job had been offered to anyone else. So, in March 1954, it was back to Sculthorpe, 'Hak' Mixson, the big stretched Cadillacs, American flying clothing and the American language plus the raised eyebrows. I was concerned that our cover might well have been blown because so many people knew that we were up to something, even if they were not sure what. The super-efficient flight line procedures under which the crew could call stores or any other department at Sculthorpe using walkie-talkies, to discuss our aircraft problems and movements in uncoded language, was also a worry. The least competent Soviet spy or sympathiser in the locality with a small radio tuned to the American frequency could have written a manual on events at Sculthorpe! Anyway after a months hard work, during which the four assigned aircraft were repainted in RAF colours, I went to Bomber Command accompanied by the faithful Rex Sanders, to collect the flight plans which again showed three routes north, central and a much longer southern route which would require in-flight refuelling outbound as well as inbound. this is the one I chose.
This is the third time that I have tried typing this (one forefinger key stabbing) & the sytem keeps bouncing me out, so I shortened it this time.
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Air Pictorial August 1997 Part 5.
The Intelligence people briefed us carefully: there might be some surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) but no radar-eqipped night fighters, although there was a ground control radar reporting system which would enable them to track us and position a fighter within visual range, but this was not thought to be likely. The one comforting thought was that we should be too high and too fast for any anti-aircraft fire. No flak! Good news! We were to remain silent unless attacked, in which case OMG frequency was to be used to give a sitrep to the chaps back at the ranch.
Late in April 1954 everything was go, including the spare aircraft (which we never used). Once again, the three RAF RB-45Cs staggered into the air and headed for north Denmark where our faithful tankers topped us up. After a smart salute to the tanker's boom operator-all lights doused-came the long, slow climb into the inky blackness east-south-east. We cleared some stratus at 30,000 ft, got a good view of the stars and were greatly encouraged by Rex's confidence-inspiring report that the ground mapping radar was working like a breeze. He gave me new courses from time to time and asked for straight and level flight as we ran on to our various target sites which he said he was having no problem photographing.
Occasionally I saw, reflected on the cloud cover, flashes from the ground, similar to lightning or an active bombing range at night. It was causing us no harm-just puzzling, that's all.Having taken nearly all our photos, we were heading south towards Kiev at 36,ooo ft and Mach 0.7 when the electric storm or bombing range flashes seemed to be getting more frequent and always directly beneath us, which was odd for a random phenomenon. Had it not been for the absolute certanty which the briefing officers had dismissed the possibility of flak, I would have been a shade suspicious because it all closely resembled the German variety I had seen a lot of in an earlier life. No-one else was bothered; Rex, who couldn't see out anyway, was devilling away at his photography and Mac in the back was reporting all systems normal, leaving me to ponder on this curious departure from the script. My reverie was rudely interrupted by the sudden heart-stopping appearance of a...................
Sorry guys, I will have to upload the final part, tomorrow.
Late in April 1954 everything was go, including the spare aircraft (which we never used). Once again, the three RAF RB-45Cs staggered into the air and headed for north Denmark where our faithful tankers topped us up. After a smart salute to the tanker's boom operator-all lights doused-came the long, slow climb into the inky blackness east-south-east. We cleared some stratus at 30,000 ft, got a good view of the stars and were greatly encouraged by Rex's confidence-inspiring report that the ground mapping radar was working like a breeze. He gave me new courses from time to time and asked for straight and level flight as we ran on to our various target sites which he said he was having no problem photographing.
Occasionally I saw, reflected on the cloud cover, flashes from the ground, similar to lightning or an active bombing range at night. It was causing us no harm-just puzzling, that's all.Having taken nearly all our photos, we were heading south towards Kiev at 36,ooo ft and Mach 0.7 when the electric storm or bombing range flashes seemed to be getting more frequent and always directly beneath us, which was odd for a random phenomenon. Had it not been for the absolute certanty which the briefing officers had dismissed the possibility of flak, I would have been a shade suspicious because it all closely resembled the German variety I had seen a lot of in an earlier life. No-one else was bothered; Rex, who couldn't see out anyway, was devilling away at his photography and Mac in the back was reporting all systems normal, leaving me to ponder on this curious departure from the script. My reverie was rudely interrupted by the sudden heart-stopping appearance of a...................
Sorry guys, I will have to upload the final part, tomorrow.
Wow - this is a cracking thread - right up there with 'Did you fly the Vulcan' for sheer time wasting potential. Just spent over an hour reading through all this without realising.
As someone who remembers the 80s Cold War and has an interest in history, it really is fascinating. I don't know if anyone else has read it, but James Bamford's Body of Secrets also contains sections on deep penetration flights, albeit in terms of the broader intelligence collect picture rather than from a pure aviation perspective. However, it is still an interesting read as it goes into how they used the flights for various purposes including to get the Soviet AD networks to deliberately light them up so they could record their responses to the overflight. http://http://www.amazon.co.uk/Body-...6576088&sr=1-2
Fascinating, I will be definintely keeping an eye on how this thread progresses.
As someone who remembers the 80s Cold War and has an interest in history, it really is fascinating. I don't know if anyone else has read it, but James Bamford's Body of Secrets also contains sections on deep penetration flights, albeit in terms of the broader intelligence collect picture rather than from a pure aviation perspective. However, it is still an interesting read as it goes into how they used the flights for various purposes including to get the Soviet AD networks to deliberately light them up so they could record their responses to the overflight. http://http://www.amazon.co.uk/Body-...6576088&sr=1-2
Fascinating, I will be definintely keeping an eye on how this thread progresses.
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I could have used Voice recognition software or high speed touch typing, but I prefer good old finger stabbing the keys. The blood does make a mess of the keyboard on long passages, though.
I could have used Voice recognition software or high speed touch typing, but I prefer good old finger stabbing the keys. The blood does make a mess of the keyboard on long passages, though.
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VIP,
Many thanks for your effort it makes facinating reading.
Do your realise that you do not have to key it all in while you are online on the PPrune site, you can key it into an editor or word processing program, save it and then cut and paste to the website?
Many thanks for your effort it makes facinating reading.
Do your realise that you do not have to key it all in while you are online on the PPrune site, you can key it into an editor or word processing program, save it and then cut and paste to the website?
Last edited by ian16th; 3rd Jul 2009 at 10:49.
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That sounds like smoke & mirrors to me, it's pathetic really I have fixed V-Bomber Radars, Mainframe IBM Computers in the Bank of England, Stock Exchange, HM Treasury & The Home Office, but mention Cut & Paste & my eyes start glazing over ! Sorry racedo it just seemed to come at a convenient moment.
That sounds like smoke & mirrors to me, it's pathetic really I have fixed V-Bomber Radars, Mainframe IBM Computers in the Bank of England, Stock Exchange, HM Treasury & The Home Office, but mention Cut & Paste & my eyes start glazing over ! Sorry racedo it just seemed to come at a convenient moment.
Last edited by VIProds; 3rd Jul 2009 at 18:36.