Pablo Sacked from MyTravel
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so if you are not an airline pilot you are not qualified to comment on adherance or otherwise to SOPs so lets have less of the Top Gun rubbish.
well at least that brought a smile to my face on a dull Monday morning.
well at least that brought a smile to my face on a dull Monday morning.
... and if you're not a professional who flies the non-civilian hardware, or a backroom boy or girl without whom nothing would leave the ground, Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, then **** off the Military forum. 
And before you all start wailing its called banter
And before you all start wailing its called banter
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Basil, I thought the comment was more patronising than arrogant 
but decided not to post that thought because I didnt want this thread, like so many others, to degenerate into a slanging match. I do agree with your sentiments about that particular brand of crew 'co operation' (showing my age, its probably CRM now or has it changed again).
Wrathmonk, Basil's commment in the context of the whole post did not seem like banter in my view. It still made me smile though
but decided not to post that thought because I didnt want this thread, like so many others, to degenerate into a slanging match. I do agree with your sentiments about that particular brand of crew 'co operation' (showing my age, its probably CRM now or has it changed again). Wrathmonk, Basil's commment in the context of the whole post did not seem like banter in my view. It still made me smile though
if you're not a professional who flies the non-civilian hardware, or a backroom boy or girl without whom nothing would leave the ground, Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, then **** off the Military forum
Basil - who is now not sure if he's arrogant or patronising (wife says both)
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I know I've already said on this thread that the civvies are probably the best people to comment on this matter but some of the absolute crap which has sprung from some of their lips requires me to make my final comment. If there was ever any clearer indication that the military aviator remains a valuable maverick with regards flying an aircraft and commanding the project, this is the one. He/she applies knowledge, experience, application and reality to the task, is not reliant on over prescibed non aviation associated rules and procedures, and actually provides what the customer wants and is paying for. That some mindless beancounter writes stupid rules, which we may not disagree with, argue about etc., should be held up as CRM procedure or whatever,therefore is right, is absolute bolleaux. Sadly the maverick will lose his/her job 'cos we mustn't disagree with our paymasters. However it does not mean that they, the mavericks, are not right. This unfortunately seems to be the way of New Labour Britain.
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I posted this earlier in R&N before I saw this, It still stands.
My flying career as was is dotted with memories of characters, mavericks, renegades, call them what you will who are still around, still doing it and still the same, ultimately professional. Without them the world might be a sadder place than it is now. To the ones who were negligent, stupid, silly, go hang!
My flying career as was is dotted with memories of characters, mavericks, renegades, call them what you will who are still around, still doing it and still the same, ultimately professional. Without them the world might be a sadder place than it is now. To the ones who were negligent, stupid, silly, go hang!
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It too made me laugh on a monday morning Basil.
Will have to tell the last guy who did my Sim Check that there's nothing such thing as CRM and adherence to SOP's in the military, only airline flying..
Will have to tell the last guy who did my Sim Check that there's nothing such thing as CRM and adherence to SOP's in the military, only airline flying..
R.O.G. and cyclic.
There are also a great number of "maverics" who are now pushing up the daisies. In 20 odd years of military and now civvie flying I think I can safely say that there is no place for a maveric who interprets the rules as they see fit, in fact I did my level best to chop some of these hazards. Use judgement - yes, be flexible - yes, but for them to decide which rules they agree with, and so follow, and which they will ignore is nothing more than a short cut to a cat5.
The customer in the commercial sense does not pay for someone who uses their maveric skills and interprets things their way. They pay to get from A to B, completely safely,on time, in comfort and with good service. That is all! They also do not pay for some clown who thinks he is a comedian doing his amateur cabaret act on the PA.
Mr Mason's cavalier attitude was only ever ultimately to lead to an accident - oh, hang on a minute, he's already had one!!
There are also a great number of "maverics" who are now pushing up the daisies. In 20 odd years of military and now civvie flying I think I can safely say that there is no place for a maveric who interprets the rules as they see fit, in fact I did my level best to chop some of these hazards. Use judgement - yes, be flexible - yes, but for them to decide which rules they agree with, and so follow, and which they will ignore is nothing more than a short cut to a cat5.
The customer in the commercial sense does not pay for someone who uses their maveric skills and interprets things their way. They pay to get from A to B, completely safely,on time, in comfort and with good service. That is all! They also do not pay for some clown who thinks he is a comedian doing his amateur cabaret act on the PA.
Mr Mason's cavalier attitude was only ever ultimately to lead to an accident - oh, hang on a minute, he's already had one!!
Last edited by Flap62; 27th Nov 2007 at 08:00. Reason: Tooping and grimmar
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I am amazed at some of the responses. Remember, some of us sit on appointment boards and those of you still with a seat should be aware of this, if you are thinking of changing it.
Don't walk into Graham Bearham on a dark night
I think he joined the Health and Safety nazis after the mob, he'd have said
to breaking the rules.CG
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Remember, some of us sit on appointment boards and those of you still with a seat should be aware of this, if you are thinking of changing it.
Will have to tell the last guy who did my Sim Check that there's nothing such thing as CRM and adherence to SOP's in the military, only airline flying..
I once flew for an airline where that was sort of encouraged:
Trainer to Basil "You got to ride that flight engineer a bit harder!"
Basil: "Perhaps you'd get the ATIS for me."
Trainer: "Perhaps I won't."
Basil: "Get the ATIS!"
Trainer: "No worries."
I subsequently added 'airline' to 'SOPs' to make it clear that I referred specifically to airline operations.
I think there are differences.
We operate in a environment in which we support each other (yes, I know some of the temporarily disaffected would disagree).
In the military, on the one hand you'll probably get an expeditious approach at a friendly station but be less kindly received when visiting the bad boys.
There are those who do not understand the law as it applies to civil aviation, e.g. I think in another thread, the law as it applies to 'charter flights' is confused with 'private flights'. Big difference.
The thread in R&N goes on a bit with ill informed comment.
No intention to suggest that the mil does not have SOPs and sorry if I've ruffled professional feathers. I've a bit of a thing about SOPs, having flown with pain in the derrier captains who thought it was cool to 'do their own thing'. As a FO, at one time, I (uncharacteristically) preferred flying with training captains because we'd just collected a bunch of captains who wouldn't have recognised SOP if they'd met it in their soup!
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I have heard some Stories about Pablo Mason, from the Boys at Valley.. Rumours have it that Pablo the legend that he is.. Was ejected from his aircraft from the Back Seat Driver, under 'Command' ejection! I can't imagine how pissed off Pablo wud be because he was Ejected by his Nav!