I think this very interesting thread went a little out of focus thanks to 'ekpilot' and his remarks :D pointing out the obvious as we were all born yesterday. :*
I think delays to such a challenging program like the 380 could be expected. Its not the first time that happens (the 747 for example was delayed but it became a huge success). The a380 will come on line eventually and it will be a cool big mama :cool:. The question now is how EK is going to offset the potential loss of capacity in the next couple of years but I'm confident Ek will keep on growing no matter what because the hotel rooms in dubai must be filled and the whole show must go on. I see this temporary crisis as an opportunity to make good deals :ok: and I'm sure ek will.

I believe that the order for 10 747-800F's that Ferrydude's link refers to is the order that was announced at Farnborough. This was just a signing of the papers.

Me thinks this is in addition to Farnborough order, or so goes the hallway talk.
Confirmation should be imminent.

The above link is a Boeing press release picked up by Yahoo business. The opening sentence says this "finalizes" an order for 10..........So Gillegan is right, it appears this is just the signing ceremony. If it were a new order, there would be a lot more press by both parties, especially Boeing.

EK saved the right to buy more B748's. No order yet.
Check this: http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1160348877.html

October 8, 2006

Dubai-based Emirates said on Sunday it may buy 10 more Boeing freighter aircraft worth about USD$2.8 billion to tap the growing Middle Eastern air cargo traffic market.

Emirates secured the right to purchase the 747-8F planes, it said in a statement. Purchase rights do not include agreement on price. Emirates also confirmed an earlier order for 10 similar aircraft worth USD$2.8 billion.

"Our order for the 747-8Fs will be essential in helping us service our rapidly growing network of 28 freighter destinations," Emirates Chairman Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed al-Maktoum was quoted as saying in the statement.

Middle East air cargo grew 5.8 percent last year by tonnage, said Emirates, which operates nine freighters among its fleet of 98 planes.

It also awaiting delivery of eight Boeing 777 freighters among more than 100 aircraft on order worth a total USD$30 billion.

Emirates ordered 10 Boeing 747 freighters at the Farnborough Air Show in July. At the time, it said the order was worth USD$3.3 billion.

A spokeswoman for Emirates could not explain the discrepancy with Sunday's confirmation price.

(Reuters)

allrightee then:cool:

original order was 10 plus 10 options.
suspect this is to firm up the later. Prob can turn them into pax jets later.
As to ekpilot (not EK pilot) while there are not and never have been any guarantee's for time to command, when accel. commands and DEC's were first mentioned we were told by the management, in person, at a pilots meetinge
"No F/O who meets the 3 yr and hrs requirement will have their commands delayed by said fast thracking"
It is this blatant lying that those affected are upset about

I believe Airbus are in town tomorrow to meet with TC etc and try and sort out some kind of mitigation

AIRBUS CEO Resigns (again)
 

http://money.cnn.com/2006/10/09/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

wow.... airbus. *no comment*

I think that the presvious comments were taken out of context and I am sorry if I upset some of my friends. I am very sad to see this airline behave the way it has towards its staff. But there is still no promises as an expat and I really agree with 411A on this. He is always winding people up but he does tell the truth and the company do not give even a small sh1t towards the people of this airline. There is not one manager that will listen to you and act on your concerns. They do not care that you are not going to be a captain when you thought you would be and there is all this rumour about things like the 380, the 747-800 and when the next deliveries will be and whether we still need DECs (now we definately don't) but what do we hear from this company that cares so much? NOTHING!!! One Captain told me a while back that the managers will just keep rotating in their seats until its its their time to retire and this is what I see now.

By the way, I am not the ******** you have to sit next to, I am an Airbus FO and I know how I feel about things. I have never been a Captain and that is just the way this career has gone for me. I did joing EMirates and they did say that it would be between 3 and 4 years, but I have been upset so many times that all I could think was it will happen when I pass the upgrade course and getting my extra salary. What these people tell you is just what they want you to hear so I do not listen anymore and the people that you can talk to cannot make any decision anyway.

Sorry again if I upset any of you I am just trying to make sense of things.

Good sources are telling me the extra 777's secured by Emirates to cover capacity shortfalls are not coming cheaply. Not that this has much effect on the emirates budget with plummeting gas prices but it may play into the Airbus/Boeing/Direct entry command argument.
Surely airlines such as Virgin Blue and Jet Airways where many of EK's commanders are speculated to be interested in, will opt for the cheaper alternative (Airbus). If just 20% of the Airbus Captains who say they want to leave go ,there will be enough new commands for everybody.

Dunno Fluke, I heard that TC bullied Airbus into giving us the 777s until the 380 comes. He reckons the 346 just is not competitive. If true, it is a helluva coup, have to grudgingly lift my cap to the Boss.:D

Someone will the 346s for sure, guess we'll just have to go there and hope we get treated better, but somehow doubt it.

Why would Virgin want to take the Airbus as well after EK has knocked it back. I believe VB has already sourced a few 777's.However I imagine the ER's are in scarce supply.

EK tried to get 9 777ers waited a day and only got 5 managed to get another 2 ,dont think any off them were free and not coming till late 08.So there is nothing to fill the short fall for the next 2 years unless they get some cheap buses (346s) and who cares if they burn extra gas EK wont be paying that fuel bill airbus will.Same as RR payed EK a bunch for the engine problems on the 500s

L1011

I don't know who is paying the leases for the extra 777's (Airbus or Emirates), all I heard that the discounts Emirates normally swing were not in place. Whether the 346 is competitive or not was a decision asked before the A380 delay was announced. That decision (to not confirm the A346 order), would surely have been reassessed with the latest developments.

Dunerider

Again I don't know why you would select an aircraft type when it has been openly critisised by other carriers and prefered 777 option exist. There are always other factors though : getting the a/c on the national register, ETOP's approval for a company that cannot maintain it domestically, leasing/finance costs, parent company influence, availability, manufacture incentives or payments like EK gets for the A345.


Who knows everything is political these days!

A380...outright cancellations?
 

It was announced today on the local news in Seattle, that a middle eastern airline had cancelled their order for at least 20 A380's, and had decided to buy new B747's/777's instead.

Anyone know which airline?

Atleast 20 A380's means that its a company with an order of more than 20. And there's only 1 in the ME who have oredered more than 20. Doesnt take a genius to figure out which one it is. Would be interesting to what we can do to fill up for the delays....:confused:

Emirates cancelled some A340's. Might that be what you heard?

As they have just sent a team to audit Airbus before making any more A380 decisions, I doubt they will cancel just yet.

Emirates cancelled 340-600 and will lease 777 instead.

Emirates urges Boeing to consider longer-range 747-8I
 

Well Timmy C. is definitely looking for other options.....

Source: Air Transport Intelligence news

Emirates is urging Boeing to continue studies of the longer range 747-8 Intercontinental variant incorporating the original shorter fuselage stretch, if it wishes to retain the prospect of an order from the Dubai carrier.

Emirates has ordered up to 20 747-8Fs for its cargo arm, and the airline’s president Tim Clark says the 747-8I is being evaluated to meet its requirement for a 400 seater to operate on direct services between Dubai and Los Angeles.

However Emirates is only interested in the “140in [3.5m] stretch” first proposed, says Clark, as the larger version with the “220in” (5.6m) extension which has now been adopted cannot carry a “meaningful payload” on the route.

Boeing revealed the 747-8I rethink last week, when it provided updated specifications confirming that it had standardised the fuselage extension of the passenger variant with that of the Freighter. This means that both aircraft have an overall length of 76.3m, which increases the typical three class capacity of the 747-8I from 450 to 467 but results in a range penalty of around 300km.

Speaking to ATI at an event to mark the opening of Emirates’ new lounge at London Heathrow’s Terminal 3, Clark said that while the larger, shorter range variant suits most the requirements of most 747-8I prospective customers, it falls short of Emirates’ needs, which are more focused on range than capacity.

“By our rules, the aircraft would seat 400 people on the Dubai-Los Angeles route and will only be able to carry around 70% of its passenger load,” he adds.

The original 747-8I had a 2m forward fuselage plug, while the new version’s plug is increased to 4.1m. The rear plug remains the same at 1.5m. Clark says he has suggested to Boeing that it should consider building both versions of the 747-8I “to increase the product spread within the family”.

He adds: “Why don’t they offer one version with the short forward plug and one with the longer plug?”

Boeing has previously made it clear that it only intends to build one version of the 747-8I, but says that despite now settling on the length, it is "still in discussions with airlines about what the optimal performance for the -8I from an operating cost and economics perspective”.

Clark says: “My thinking is that if we went to Boeing and said we’d order 20 [of the shorter fuselage variant], then they’d probably go for it.” Clark envisages that if a 747-8I order was placed, the aircraft could be in service with Emirates from around 2011.

EK Half Year profit up 29%
 

Emirates airline profit rises; offsets fuel costs
Posted: Monday, November 06, 2006
Dubai
Emirates said first-half profit rose by 29 per cent after the Dubai government-owned company offset higher fuel costs by carrying more passengers and cargo.
Net income in the six months to September 30 climbed to $323 million, compared with $251 million in the year-earlier period, Emirates said in a statement. Operating revenue rose 30 per cent to $3.67 billion, it said.
'Emirates has been in a strong position to tap into the robust demand for air travel globally by expanding its route network with new high-capacity aircraft,' Emirates chairman Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum was quoted as saying in the statement.
Emirates is banking on long-range, high-capacity aircraft to tap passenger and cargo traffic from as far away as east Asia and North America through its hub in Dubai to compete with global carriers including Qantas Airways and Singapore Airlines.
The International Air Transport Association has said Middle East passenger traffic in the first nine months of the year rose 15.4 per cent, the fastest of the world's regions, according to an industry association which represents 260 airlines.
The number of passengers Emirates carried in the first six months rose by 20 per cent to 8.39 million, compared with 6.98 million in the year-earlier period, it said.
Passenger revenue rose 31 per cent and load factor, the proportion of seats filled, to 76.4 per cent, it said, without giving comparisons.
Fuel costs climbed above $1 billion, equivalent to 30.7 per cent of total operating costs, it said, without giving a comparison. Revenue from cargo operations rose by 29 per cent to Dh2.7 billion ($735.1 million), Emirates said.
The world's airlines will cut their combined losses this year by half to $1.7 billion, offsetting a 26 per cent increase in fuel costs by raising passenger load factors, and on higher passenger and cargo demand, according to IATA. It will be their sixth successive year of losses, according to IATA.
:D :ok: :)

Why not? Biz is biz... Wouldn't you do the same?...

Well, the first domino has fallen, FedEx said goodbye to some (but not all) of their A380F orders...I wonder who will be next?

FedEx cancels Airbus A380 order, switches to Boeing By Paritosh Bansal
 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061107/...ex_boeing_dc_3

NEW YORK (Reuters) - European plane maker Airbus (EAD.PA), which has faced a series of production delays on its high-profile A380 superjumbo program, suffered a major blow on Tuesday when FedEx Corp. (NYSE:FDX - news) canceled a roughly $2.5 billion order and switched to rival Boeing Co. (NYSE:BA - news)

FedEx Express, the express package delivery unit of U.S. shipping company FedEx, became the first customer to terminate an order for Airbus' flagship plane when it scrapped an agreement to buy 10 A380-800F aircraft.

Instead, FedEx ordered 15 Boeing 777 Freighter aircraft and took options to purchase 15 more. The previous agreement with Airbus included an option for another 10 A380 planes, a FedEx spokesman said, but those options are now invalid.

FedEx said it expects to take delivery of four Boeing 777s in 2009, eight in 2010 and the remainder in 2011. At a list price of $232.5 million to $240 million each, the order will be worth at least $3.48 billion to Boeing.

The Boeing 777 Freighter, launched in May 2005, is the world's largest twin-engine cargo aircraft, but smaller than Boeing's new four-engined 747-8F Freighter.

The cancellation is a further blow to Airbus and its majority parent, EADS (EAD.PA), which have been plunged into financial and political crisis after a string of wiring delays on the A380 pushed the world's largest ever commercial plane two years behind schedule.

FedEx's decision cuts the number of outstanding orders for the A380 freighter to 15 from 25. Last month, FedEx rival United Parcel Services Inc. (NYSE:UPS - news), which has 10 A380s on order, said it had set up a team to evaluate its purchase.

The switch to Boeing is a boost for the U.S. planemaker, said Morningstar analyst Chris Lozier.

"It's definitely a good sign -- both the order and the cancellation," Lozier said. "I'm guessing that certainly they have those slots promised and they should have no problem making those deliveries."

EADS shares closed down 3 percent on the Paris stock market, while Boeing was up around 5.4 percent in afternoon trading on the New York Stock Exchange. The Standard & Poor's Aerospace and Defense index (^GSPAERO - news) was up 1.6 percent.

"The decision to purchase Boeing 777s was taken after Airbus announced significant delays for delivery of A380s," said Maury Lane, a spokesman at FedEx Express. "Global package demand continues to grow and we need the appropriate aircraft to meet that demand."

FedEx, based in Memphis, Tennessee, said it continues to be Airbus' largest wide-body airplane customer and will add new and used Airbus wide-body aircraft to its fleet in the coming years.

An Airbus spokesman said the company "regrets FedEx's decision, but we understand their need to urgently address capacity issues."

The spokesman added that Airbus remained committed to the freighter program: "We still expect the A380 freighter to be a successful program from the outset, although we did not expect demand to be very high at the start."

A Boeing spokesman said the company is prepared to meet FedEx's delivery schedule: "We are very pleased to meet the needs of such an important customer," spokesman Jim Proulx said.

FedEx shares were up 83 cents, 0.7 percent, at $114.77, in afternoon trading, while Boeing was up $4.21 at $84.69, both on the NYSE.

(Additional reporting by Chris Reiter in New York, Nick Carey and Kyle Peterson in Chicago and Nick Antonovics in Paris)

More EK A380 "Good News"
 

A380 costs, delays causing headaches at Emirates

Thursday March 15, 2007
Emirates President Tim Clark told ATWOnline last week in Berlin that the operating costs of its A380 fleet will be higher than originally planned.
"There are still an extra six tons of weight we can't get out of the A380. That will cost us extra money in operation for the next 10 or 15 years," Clark said.
Emirates' 45 A380s, which constitute a $15 billion investment, each should generate $200 million for the airline annually. The weight issues are compounded by the money EK is losing because of the program's delay. "We will get our first A380 in August 2008, 21 months later then scheduled," Clark said. "By that time we should have had 18 A380s already in service, with each vehicle flying 15 hours a day and transporting 500-600 passengers. If you count that together, it is a lot of money." He did not estimate the expected costs of either the operational issues or the delay.
He did say that EK and Airbus are nearing a delay compensation agreement; "We are too important for them, and they don't want us leaving for Boeing." He said a Boeing sales team was in Dubai about two weeks ago to discuss the 747-8 Intercontinental, which Clark said he likes but which would not be able to fulfill certain missions important to the carrier, like nonstop Dubai-Los Angeles service with 400 passengers and a full cargo payload. He also said Airbus will present its final A350 XWB version to EK next month.

by Kurt Hofmann

Virgin Blue getting big jets, now this. C'mom guys why are you still hanging around in the desert. Things really looking up in the land of Oz.

Tiger Airways gets Australian approval

Friday March 16, 2007
Tiger Airways was given the green light by Australia's Foreign Investment Review Board to proceed with the creation of Tiger Airways Australia (ATWOnline, Feb. 12).
Tiger said FIRB found that "the creation of Tiger Airways Australia was consistent with the government's foreign investment policy and did not place any specific conditions on the creation of the new airline." TAA now will now work toward securing its AOC.
Tiger CEO Tony Davis said he was "very encouraged by the support received from so many communities across the country," adding that TAA is in the final stages of negotiation with a number of Australian airports for the location of its principal operating base. Brisbane, Melbourne and Adelaide are frontrunners.
Interestingly, TAA was the popular abbreviation for domestic carrier Trans Australia Airlines, which was renamed Australian Airlines and then merged into Qantas ahead of the latter's IPO in 1994.

by Geoffrey Thomas

WEll....Everthing but the WAGES that is...:rolleyes:

Still want to fly the A380 ? (Emirates considering low-cost arm)
 

Out today -

Not exactly new - Tim Clark was talking about that publicly in Nov 2005, suggesting a A380 with 780 all-Y seats serving UK-Australia, and as I recall also serving the Indian routes which I think are limited by the UAE bilateral in frequency, but not capacity, terms.

UK and Aus I can understand,

But I seem to recollect that the indian routes are in fact limited to the number of pax onboard (and not just on frequency). I remember a while back, a request for the jumpseat was put through but then shot down at the last minute because the total number of pax onboard had exceeded the maximum allowable according to the indian traffic rights. ie all cabin seats where taken, and the poor staff traveller who had tried so hard to get home on emergency leave, had to wait for the next available flight.

This would not of been a problem if the staff pax was on the gendec, but since he had a revenue ticket, he was included in the total pax count.

This may of changed......

SN

What's a jump-seat SN????
Remember, you're on a EK thread here and EK (TC) uses their jump-seats just to mentally kick their employees in the b****. Even if it would create some revenue they still refuse, now that's a stunner for the greedy b******! They only give these seat to control us via LOSA, and are subsequently surprised when we refuse.
Just proof how much they despise us.

ek orders 3 a380's
 

just been on dubai 1 tv ek is ordering qty 3 more a380''s.

Make that 4:

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Aviation/10123568.html