Qatar Airways Be Warned
 

This would have to be the most bizarre of interviews.

So political did the recruitment procedure become it is rumoured the manager of flight operations was sacked or resigned.

All involved in Qatar interviews vowed to post the woeful events on Pprune.

Many successful candidates will not take up the positions.It wasn't just the threat of sacking if you forget to wear a hat,or Doha,or the woeful pay and conditions.More to follow.

Beware of Qatar Airways!

Karunch - nice one

Mind you did do a few posts advising people of the situation down their BEWARE OF THE FLYING GOAT.

should read other threads on it. its amazing what goes on in that company hear that the CAA are looking into them not before time. Illegal goings on in rostering like give you days off down route 2 weeks after you've been to Munich etc. Very interested to hear wat they will think of them.

Safe and happy flying but not at QR

Karunch, very interesting but not surprising, just how in much $US are they paying? I have heard nothing but horror stories coming out of this place. Definately not a destination to pencil in for the next holidays. Any company that cannot divulge the pay and conditions up front are not worth wasting your time on. Hell Holes like this should be paying big bucks to get you in the door. Maybe it is time for a career change if aviation has come to this. I hear the local OZ backpackers is paying more than this for mini van drivers.

All the best
:rolleyes: :eek:

Yes, Karunch, I think you have it completely nailed! It seems that all the check captains that were there in the last two weeks for interview have turned the job down because of the terrible conditions ( they were given job offers the moment they stepped out of the simulator). And you are right. It is not just the conditions but also the spectre of working for someone (the poisoned dwarf) who has the power to kick you out of the country with 24 hours notice for making a remark or not wearing your hat!
Qatar Airways is about to completely fall on their faces during the upcoming expansion as they will not be able to get quality people. Anyone can run an airline with 12 planes but they want to double their fleet in the next 2-3 years. They are about to die if they don't change things quickly! The way I see it is that you have to be completely desperate to want to work there right now. Some of the guys that turned the offer down did not even have jobs. That goes to show what a pathetic choice Qatar Airways is to a lot of people.
The really sad part is that there was an individual that was trying to turn the company around. He had outstanding qualifications and was the man to do it. I don't know but it looks like he is leaving from what I hear. Oh well, there goes the last ray of hope!

Karunch

Does this poison dwarf that you mention have a name?

Go on QR's website, click on "About Us" then "The Airline" and you will even see a picture of the specimen.

What I heard is different. I understand that the check pilot candidates were given a flying exercise that consisted of a none published holding over a fix followed by a full procedure NDB approach manually flown with birds off /FMGCs off /Auto trust off. The company checks airman demonstrated the task himself before the ride and then asked the candidate to do the same.
Almost none were able to complete the task within the reasonable tolerance required by the Flt.Ops. I hear the same exercise is followed on the Sim. Ride with Gulf Air.

well guys,

like gulfcrew, we are on the other side of the door!

but we both worked for them for a long time as supervisors and know the crap that goes on !

i gave some general infor to some guys going for the interview and to be honest, i am happy that there are crew turning it down...

be cool, be safe, and beware of QR!!!

if the gmfo has quit..well, i am so sorry...he was a gentleman who tried his best...

Doha.......aahhh the memories!

The mention of "snackbar the baker" (alias P.D.) makes me wonder if the snackbar menu has improved in the GF sim?
The choice of sandwiches used to be "chis or yegg" :D

Loopy,

You sound like a PR department of an embarrassed airline."Face Saving" comes to mind.I know Qatar airlines is concerned about the adverse publicity they may get because I was told so!Positions offered will not be taken up by some.This is a concern for an airline that has had difficulty attracting pilots in good times and now faces knock backs from pilots unemployed.

The Sim exercise was not at all demonstrated by local airmen from the A320.The A320 is a beautiful aircraft on raw data and manual thrust,so I question your information regarding an inability of candidates to demonstrate the straight forward exercise mentioned.

The raw data exercise went along the lines as follows:raw data t/o,manual thrust,engine failure and ILS return or non-precision.Missed approach,flaps locked,return ILS with APU fire on finals with an emergency evacuation on landing.Busy yes,useful evaluation?

Pilots should be able to demonstrate raw data skills.The management of an A320`s systems and automation in the face of abnormal/emergency situations is I feel,more pertinent.Mode confusion is more of a risk or problem in this region than an irrelevant raw data exercise.Coupled with the admitted CRM problems of Qatar and you have a potential cocktail/Gulf Air.

The information we got from very nervous serving Qatar pilots was that there was a civil war going on.These gentleman were very apologetic and indicated there was two recruitment lists.One from the English and one from the local flt ops hierachy.Indications were of a senior resignation or sacking last week.

The two lists does explain why some candidates had flight directors,auto thrust and a basic base check exercise.Some candidates didn`t have to complete the exam and some were permitted do answer "don`t know" to recalls.

Good luck to all and I hope others(as promised) publish their experiences with a very unusual airline.

It may be of interest for those guys going for the QATAR interview that Emirates have a no poaching policy with QATAR airways and visa versa.
Though I don't think many pilots from Emirates will be too worried about it.

bulldog69

Well, I work with the simulator on the daily basis, so my source of information can not be that off.
Your Statement “Pilots should be able to demonstrate raw data skills. The management of an A320`s systems and automation in the face of abnormal/emergency situations is I feel, more pertinent. Mode confusion is more of a risk or problem in this region than an irrelevant raw data exercise. Coupled with the admitted CRM problems of Qatar and you have a potential cocktail/Gulf Air”

Very true. Lack of local skills with automation had created the necessity on operating the A/C on Raw data and in doing so it makes it very relevant and practical here, some thing that the locals are very fond of. That is why the Check pilot candidates are required to demonstrate that skill so they can preach it down the line; Something that our “English speaking Gents are not so good at.

And on that “You sound like a PR department of an embarrassed airline."Face Saving" comes to mind”
Please **** off

MTQatar, your words of support for the dwarf may do you good (see brown nosing) but they are very far from the truth. The short guy knows nothing about management, you cannot rule professionals with an iron fist, you cannot rule through fear. Maybe it works with his houseboy (no disrespect to the houseboy) but not with a professional body of pilots and crew.

On many occasions I've seen him drive his BMW like a total moron on the ramp with no sence of safety or respect for people and equipment and act like a 3 year old taking tugs from other airlines so some QR320 can push back. If he did this in any other country he would end up in jail.

MTQatar the only thing this dwarf has achieved is give QR a bad name. One day you'll realize this but most likely it will be far too late.

Loopy,

Don`t understand.Please clarify as you may have an insight into the culture of Qatar Airways.

Mode Confusion on Airbus 320 aircraft,with a reliance to correct with the disconnection of the automation and an inherent lack of CRM skills,is a cocktail for disaster.

When does an A320 have no auto thrust and no flight directors(including the bird) and flying in normal law?

Good fundamental skills raw data.The real challenge with this aeroplane is the successful management of all your assets(including the f/o) ensuring a higher margin of safety in an abnormal situation.

Mode confusion has resulted in four A320 hull losses!I won`t get into your racial slur regarding "english speaking gentleman".

French,French,Indian and Arabic.

Concerned
 

Dear Gentelmen,
I have been always scrolling through pprune pages to find out info about QR and I'd have to say that the impression I am getting is as far as positive as it can get.
I am on the point of leaving my current European employer to join QR as F/O on the 320.
But the more I read about the company, the more concerned I get.
As far as I know the roster is survivable and days off are never contaminated.
The money they offer are about twice as much as I get in my low cost airline in Europe although I know the cost of life in Doha is somewhat higher.
It also seems like that if you do your job and do it professionally you'll have no problems and you can enjoy the very basic expats life Doha can offer.
It also seems like they do follow a seniority list for upgrades and looking at the expansion plans they have in mind, command will happen quickly.
I kindly ask you to give me some reasons for which I should go or I should stick to my current job and enjoy life in Europe.
Feel free to e-mail me for any more personal advise at [email protected]
I need help.
Any comments are more than welcome.
Cheers:confused: :confused:

Aussie "heroes" going Qatar. there is a God after all...

You mean what? Please clarify...
:cool:

Bugs do yourself a favour mate, come to Gulf Air we'll be taking at least 35 F/o's on A320. Bahrain and more importantly the Company much better than QR anyday. Money in GF same as QR and much much more friendly environment.

MTQatar,

You said

Well........seem to recall there was a M****n T****i who DID work for the company.

Nah.......probably just a coincidence that you two have the same initials. ;) ;)

Anyway, if (as you claim), you are:

then you would be best advised to CAREFULLY read what some of the posts say, and NOT comment! :mad:

P.S. A340Driver...........loved the "brown nose" comment amigo! It was absolutely SPOT-ON for my money :D :D

Bugs, I think Fubaar is saying that they deserve each other. Poetic justice, some of those 'individuals' ending up in a place like Qatar... I hope the young AN guys have the sense to look elsewhere.

Mafi Mushkila Saeed Mubarak

Whilst your viewpoint on this subject isn't in agreement with a lot of other folk, I applaud your honesty & frankness - this is a good debate, let's keep it that way please folks.

4Holer

MTQatar if this is the case I see absolutely no need for you to "brown nose" the Dwarf, in fact very much vice versa;)
However I do insist that his only real achievement is to give QR a bad name. It seems QR have lost even good local guys because of his rantings, and trust me I know a few of them personally. His style of management will be effective in the short term but will deter the higher calliber individuals who are looking for a professional attitude and not a dictatorial regime.
From my humble experience in aviation till now I must say that usually the managers that make the most noise and threats are the one's that are hiding their true inabilities to manage and lead a team of professionals. Respect is not a given, it is earned even on the manager - employee level.
As a captain I show respect to my crew and with my attitude and professional conduct strive to earn their respect. That way onboard we function like a great team. My four bars don't entitle me automatically to be respected.

For those that read this thread and don't know, the Al Thani family is the ruling family in Qatar;)

MTQatar,

You are obviously a heavy investor in Qatar Airways.

Last years incident with Gulf would be terrible for business.

Have the lessons been learnt with CRM and good 21st century training?

Or has the easy path been taken?A sixties era flt deck culture with an autocratic flt department.

MTQatar "brown nosing" means "kissing ass". Usually happens in the airline management buisness. Individuals "brown nose" their managers, managers "brown nose" their VP's and so on. Brown nosing is the best form of career advancement for individuals with less skills.
Brown nosing is also related to social status, therefore the higher up you are in the social ladder the more "brown nosers" you have around you.

Therefore my statement of
MTQatar if this is the case I see absolutely no need for you to "brown nose" the Dwarf, in fact very much vice versa means that due to your social status it is the Dwarf that should "brown nose" you.

Anyhow back to a more serious note, at this stage of QR's growth it is difficult to assess the Company performance as any profits (and in general cash flow) are pumped back in, in the form of expansion. The difficulty lies in how much expansion. The formula must be such that the expansion does not exceed market demand.
Load factors in airlines are a strange thing. Cathay Pacific, for example prior to Sept 11th had load factors of about 78% and were making millions, after Sept11th they droped to 70% and they were loosing millions. This is a high cost game.
The US is a great indicator of the global airline market, history shows that airlines that expanded too quickly were soon into chapter 11 protection.
As the great Richard Branson said once when asked by a reporter "How does one become a millionaire?" he repilied "Easy you become a billionaire and open an airline"

All very interesting reading!

Interesting stories of people refusing offers of employment. I get the feeling that those pilots that are eligible to apply to QR will overlook them in favour of EK or even GF to a smaller extent. Can QR continue on its 'type rated' policy or will they ever open the market to non Airbus pilots as well?

Ultimately I see QR will attract pilots who want the ex-pat lifestyle but don't have enough experience to merit an application to EK and then as the hours increase the online application will be sent off to Dubai???

With so many seats to fill and the rather cautious approach being displayed by some fellow PPRuNers, can QR continue as they are?

Bugs Bunny took the words out of my mouth from an earlier posting of his. I am sure QR is a good place to work providing you don't rock the boat and do your job and do it professionally. Qatar is tax free (which speaks volumes compared to some European countries) and their F/O salary is one that few western airlines will be able to beat. Finally they seem to be profitable at the moment which is an achievement in itself in the post 9/11 era that we are in. The order book is quite full and command opportunities must be something that can't be overlooked.

I am not trying to disagree with previous posts. I personally feel that for the pilot that has youth on his side, you could do worse than QR considering their expansion planed and the wealth of opportunities that will potentially arise.

MG:)

qatar airways
 

i think i have very bad news for all of us that capt.david fleming general manager flt.ops. is out of qatar airways .......... :

Be careful if you decide to go especially if Capt Dave Fleming has left. They are unable to get pilots or TRI/TRE's to join them. They are having difficulty in getting volunteers to promote. Why, in an airline that is doubling its fleet in the next few years?
Ask why the ones already there resigned from the office. The Baker gave one TRI 24 hrs to get out of the country because he upset a Qatari pilot whilst trying to teach him about their new performance. The Qatari was continually moaning and disrupting the class and when the instructor tried to silence him, (so he could get on with the training) he left the classroom and went to see the baker. There was no enquiry or interview only a fax from the tower saying "be out of the country within 24 hours". The Q pilot denied he had spoken to Baker when he was confronted.
Their are some very good Qataris but also, some, you really have to watch out for.
The expats are a good bunch of lads but try to keep their head down in case it is shot off. The lifestyle is good and the roster isn't bad. Apart from Peshewar & Katmandhu the flying is relatively easy on the A320 fleet. Money is around £5000 per month but a good house furnished will cost upwards of £1200 per month. Tel and internet are quite expensive, but petrol ischeap. 15p per litre.
I am not saying do not go just be careful if you do. I would advise anybody not to get too committed financially because leaving the country within 1 week is quite normal if you get on the wrong side of the wrong guy. (That applies to both within and without the aviation industry.)
Also try to get a yearly multiple exit visa or they will not let you out when you decide you want to go. To obtain a single exit visa you will have to go around the different departments and collect 3-4 signatures.
Anybody wanting info I would be glad to help and will give an impartial view. Just e mail me.
All the best to those who will try.

GWAPO

Can't send you an email as you have blocked this feature.
Please can you email me "[email protected]". I am a British LAE considering a job with QA but can get no information on what they are like to work for, what terms & conditions are like etc.

I see from the piot side there are many problems but what about the maint side? Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks

Re the training system at Qatari: I am a little concerned that a pilot who was one of my F/O's only two years ago on the A320 and no Command time on type to that time is now a Training Captain at Qatari. To my knowledge he had no previous instructional experience of any nature. Reasonaply good pilot I thought but a Training captain ??????

Have a nice day

Eh where did MTQatar and his posts go to :confused: :confused:

I am not paranoid as such but he claimed to be an Al Thani and now has dissapeared as well as all his posts.

Have the Qatari Secret Police got access to Pprune then :confused: :confused:

I am here
 

Sirwa69,

I am here, I check the forums for something interesting from time to time. I will only reply to posts where I think I might be usefull. But I guess you should get your info on QR from the experts "Taba", "Gulf-Crew" and "A340Driver" who seem to know everything about QR, they will be more of use to you than I am.

I deleted my posts because I saw no use for them in this disscussions. I also made a huge mistake by saying my name.

Qatar secret police?Fascinating,threat of coup d`etat due unequal distribution of wealth?

Could someone enlighten as to the situation in Qatar.Have friends moving their families there.

The odd thing that I found was the huge American presence(F16s target Iraq) in contrast to AlQaeda telivision and Qatar Airways boasting its` soon expansion into Iraq.

Is Qatar a powderkeg?

The extremes of the West and Islam seem to be face to face.

Would other PPruners move their families there?

Hi MT...

Since the 9-11 event, where do you think a safe place is???
Doha can a nice place to leave with family, and hope for the best!
Cheers.

------------------------------------------------------
Flying is not dangerous.......CRASHING is.

MT Edelstone56

Sirwa69 was either being sarcastic or ignorant regarding Qatar. There is no secret police here, and no there is no threat of a coupe d'etat. Qatar, politically is the most stable of the Gulf states.

Yes there is a huge American presence here but AFAIK the aircraft here have only been carrying supplies to and from Afghanistan as well as other regions. What Al-Qaeda TV are you talking about? I assume you are talking about Al-Jazeera which has nothing to do with Afghanistan or Al-Qaeda. Do you remember during the Gulf War when CNN was accussed of being with the Iraqis. Just because Al-Jazeera had the best coverage in Afghanistan doesn't mean they work for Al-Qaeda.

-------------

I can gaurantee that your friends' families will be very safe here in Qatar. Doha, is a nice place especially if you have children. There is plenty to do, I know lonely planet describes Qatar as the most boring place on earth but this is far from the truth. Every year Qatar changes to the better. If you came here 2 years ago and then visited again today you'd be in awe of all the changes that take place. Anyway if you want more info on life in Qatar, I am prepared to send you some printed material.

MT Ed, interesting post! Just wondering if your friends going to QATAR are ex Ansett pilots?If so, do you know how many were offered positions there?

Cheers!

MTQatar,

I'm going for my interview as Training Captain on the A300 in less than two weeks, wondering if you have any good Qatari web sites or else for us to browse (schools, housing etc). I've found Qatar-info.com so far and it's a decent.

Wife and kids (aged 6 and 8) will join some time later.

Appreciated,
Sukran (my spelling ummh!!!???)

Ready,
Like I have mentioned a few times already, only go to Qatar if you are truly desparate. As a 300 checker, an F/O at Emirates will have a better package than you. Everything that Qatar is giving is pathetic. Especially if you have kids-don't expext to put anything in the bank at the end of the month. With a familly you will end up living paycheck to paycheck in the desert with almost no life cause you will not be able to afford any. If they paid a decent salary then it could be OK. But they DON'T. You have been warned!

Ready,

This website has plenty of links that might be helpful.
http://www.hejleh.com/countries/qatar.html

For schooling you might want to try:

The best in terms of facilities, teachers etc.
Qatar Academy
Qatar International School

This is a good school with plenty of British children so your kids will feel right at home but they have bad facilities.
Doha English Speaking School

Montessori is also good but I can't find any links. And there is the American School of Doha which is also good but I also can't find the URL.

Avoid.
-Gulf English School
-English Modern School

For Housing I don't have much more info for know. I'll email you some more info later.

Regards,
MTQatar

MTQatar,

Off topic, but out of curiousity,

How are you related to Capt. Hamad Ali Jabor Al Thani,
presently residing in OMSJ ?

Best regards
A.V.