@ Eric Carr,
I would NEVER have thought that SQ lost even one pilot to EK. This is news to me. Unless it is an expat looking for permanency. But even then...

SQ to EK
 

More then one has moved to the desert and they were not expats.. in SQ anyway

Indeed.

One of the few (so far) direct entrents onto the A380 was from SQ, and already rated.

TOGA

Thought we were talking 'EK pay review' primarily... :D

Delta
 

Have you seen the new Delta pay rates proposed by the company? Puts EK to shame.
B-777 12 yr captain would make almost $270 an hour! Yes you read that right. Plus you know it will go higher because that is what the company is proposing. The Delta boys will undoubtedly ask and get more money having something to do with Big Balls but most Emirates pilots probably would not understand that concept.
You can bet your bottom dollar that they won't have to fly 95 hours a month either.
This is the beginning of the so called pilot shortage. If we as pilots can stick to our guns we can demand what we are deserved. Let's stick it to them.

I've actually flown with an ex singapore airlines pilot who is FROM singapore, so now he's an expat but there he wasn't.

AC, be careful what you wish for. :=

$270 an hour? For a 12 year 777 Captain? I hope EK don't stoop that low.

900 hours per year = $243,000 less $64,718 tax = $178,282 (from the US gov tax site)

$178,282 per year = 54,525 Dhs per month.

It has been well pointed out in this thread that a 12 year captain here on 900 hours will earn significantly more.

If $270 an hour is not the end of the remuneration story then feel free to fix my numbers. I'm not suggesting I wouldn't have liked a pay rise, I am just sick of hearing sensationalist bull$hit about how fantastic everyone else is being paid.

Let's see what the Boys sign for Visual.
Don't forget the Boys that carry theirs' around in wheel barrows only fly about 800 hours a year and work 8-12 days a month MAX. Their quality of life is leaps and bounds better than ours. I know I have worked at both places.
While we work 15-18 days, don't get credit for the bunk (some of us go well over 900 hours a year), through the night etc etc they enjoy their jobs.
They also have in their contracts concepts practically no one at EK has even heard of much less experienced. Green Slips, Trip Credit, Duty Regs, Min Day and on and on. That means they can work less and boost their hourly rate, something that is sorely lacking here in the sand.
I know we will never achieve that here mainly because pilots here think EK is a good job and won't push for what is theirs.
Oh yeah before you Kool-Aid drinkers start Delta made over $450 million last year.

Ac...bear in mind that most of the 777 Capts in US have at least 25-30 years of seniority..so you can't compare a 30 years capt with DL to a 12 year Capt with EK.

Comparing apples with pears... And if Delta is so marvellous why are you still here? Oh yeah, you'll need to do 20 years there just to get a 737 command:{:{

Have you not learnt that 'pushing for what is ours' in the Middle East is not quite the same as back Stateside? You need to pick your battles here! Simple as that. Some we win, some we lose, but the company is not going to give us a pay-rise because you think it should!

I don't see many picket lines in EGHQ:rolleyes:

PS. What is a 'green slip'? Must be some yankee thing:ok:

Kinda makes ya'all wonder why so many Delta boys came to the sandpit if life was so good. And what was your glorious background AC?

As for big balls, don't suppose you've had the time to write to JA or AS with your grievance yet? Or are you just too busy slogging through those 900 hours. Wonder why you put up with it really! :rolleyes:

No wonder there are underpaid Delta refugees at Emirates. I typed my gross from my EK payslip into a US tax calculator which informs me I will need to make $442,000 annually in the US to come out even. When I find the Delta man making that amount and we compare our slips I will ask him:

-what he pays for life insurance
-what he pays for medical insurance
-what he pays for loss of license insurance
-what model of car he is driven to work in
-what his annual bill is for the private education of his children

Green Slip is when you pick up a trip on your days off or when the company is desperate you get double time, 2X. So the boys with big balls will be getting almost $540 an hour although that is not an everyday occurance.
Keep slogging off the Yanks White Knighty. You wish you had 1/2 their contract. This just goes to show you how ignorant Ek pilots are. How do we ever have a chance of getting what is ours when pilots don't even know what they are missing much less what to fight for?
As I have said many times leaving a major US airline is the biggest mistake I ever made and yes I wish I could rectify it. There is just not that many DL pilots in the sand and ask the ones that are still here and most will tell you they wish they could back for sure.
What "Glorious" airline did you work for bymonkey? It couldn't have been that great if you think EK is a good airline. Are you one of those EK pilots that could take a 30% pay cut here and still be better off than your previous airline. With post like yours you have already answered my question.

Tax calculators do not account for many of the deductions a typical pilot can make. My effective tax rate last year was 5.57% after deductions!

My mine was 11.3%.
And I paid far less for cars, food, education, staff travel etc etc than I do in Dubai

... Well I believe the US regionals are hiring, AC.

But I didn't - then again I'm not from the US! UK is very, very expensive. Mind you, I did having a ruddy big salary there:} Sadly the taxman saw fit to relieve me of 18,000 GBP the last year I was there! Just on earnings:{:{

Like I said - apples and pears. And we all make the choice to sign on the dotted line; hopefully having done our homework first, although I fear many didn't:ugh::ugh:

ac

I worked for a good UK charter in the left seat. The Airline has been the longest and most established independent airline to survive under it's original name and is over 40 years old with an unblemished safety record. I left because of a lack of roster stability, numerous night turn rounds and future prospects.

I joined EK as an F/O and took home what I was taking home after deductions in the UK. 9 years later I have no regrets other than not coming here earlier. My quality of life, despite working an average of 150 hours more per year is greater than before. My financial situation and what I can offer my family is superior than I would have achieved had I stayed in the UK. F class travel, variation of holiday destinations and private education are just three perks that were not acheivable previously.

I've been civil enough to answer your question, let's see how big your balls are by answering mine.

Proves my point excactly. You made as much as an FO here as you did as a captain for that "airline" back home. Translate that to my friends at DL that are international FOs and they make almost as much as I do as a captain. Yeah that is same. 30% pay cut and you will still be happy here.
As I said before we will never get what is ours when "pilots" like you think we are making good money. Them compound the days we work with the conditions we work under and we are a long way from Industry Standard but you are happy though.

AC,

So, what are you going to do about it? Strike? Leave?

You are here pouring contempt on your colleagues while not appearing willing to do anything different than what they are, except moan about the position you put yourself in.

BYMONKEY pointed out why he moved here, to improve his life, and I did likewise. Are you saying we should have stayed in worse paying jobs?

If being here is NOT the best option for you, why are you here? (And please note I asked you the same question around three years ago- and the answer was "I won't be for long").

I also note you're a Captain these days- Would you be if you hadn't come here, and what would you be earning?

AC if you are here less than 10 years zip it, if you are here less than 8 shut up cos everybody knew then how EK treats its staff and that conditions are in decline, if you are here less than 6, I rest my case then you are just an idiot

I would expect nothing less from the Emirates pilots and the posts do not surprise me in the slightest.

GMC1500. WRT your post #53. This pilot from sq, who joined ek. Are we talking fo or capt. Just that you jingled my curiosity. Me with a whole bunch of friends in the far east.

AC,

But aren't you ONE of the Emirates pilots?

I'm wondering if AC was the young foul-mouthed American F/O I flew with about 3 years ago. Guy had a gob and an attitude that was vile! He was told to can it...

Apologies AC if I've mistaken you from someone else! But he was from Michigan too:cool:

Definitely at least one ex-SQ on A380. When I flew with him he was F/O, but I don't know if he was one in SQ as well, if that's what you're asking? He didn't seem 'old enough' to be a capt in SQ but maybe he just looks young for his age... not, of course, that there is any specific age for a captain... :}

WK , was he a "Check Airman", there seems to be a few of those around. Also, AC just go back to DL 777 Capt ,or was that an RJ

What about setting up a pilot council perhaps through Epc? At least we would then be able to talk with one voice rather than just moaning. It's in all our interest for the company to do well so maybe we could contribute it doesn't have to be a negative thing for ek. Even If they don't listen it would give us a platform.

First flight home for you! Last few guys that tried to set something up (what? Nine or tenyears ago) where just about given their marching orders!

Don't even tar EPC with such a brush - the guys had enough difficulty setting it up originally; having to persuade 'management' that it was not in fact a u****.

Bunk time

Both were FOs on the A380 with SQ and DEFo onto EK A380.

@King on a Wing,
I've heard at least two guys that came from the 380. And both are supposedly nationals, at least the one I met.

As for SQ mainline expats didn't they all get fired a while back and the only expats left are the ones on the cargo fleet. If not so sureley they won't be hireing any DEC expats any time soon to the mainline:confused:

@AC, even if Delta/Northwest would start hireng long haual DECs there's only about 300(US citizens) at EK who would be eligible to apply. That's why I try to compare with jobs I have a realistic chance of getting. SQ cargo might be one of them. EY, QR, KE, FR, TK and a bunch of F/O jobs in Eouro-zone. In that comparison EK's contract, for one like me with two children is one of the best...

The US does not hire Scabs, I mean DECs and for good reason. Have you seen a good airline that does not respect senority?

wet vee two

No, not at all. I just can't comprehend why people have such an obvious axe to grind against the Company yet still remain here. ac is a classic example. In fact, I too know exactly who he is having had the displeasure of sharing a car into work some time ago. He stood out for all the wrong reasons. 20 minutes of constant whinging and moaning from start to finish and several times a referral to all EK pilots as 'pussies'. Thank god I wasn't flying with him that day or else I would have off loaded myself.

ac

The fact that you consider yourself as an entirely separate entity from your EK colleagues merely confirms what a sad and bitter individual you are. Whilst you knock the majority pilot group for working here and being generally content, the irony is completely lost on you that you continue to endure such 'oppressive conditions' despite the ability to leave at your free will.

And no, I would not 'still be happy' if I received 30% less pay. If the pay had been that much less, I would not have come in the first place. For the record, my overall remuneration package is still greater than my peers at my previous airline although, unlike you, money is not my sole motivator.

Whilst we can choose to ignore your posts on these forums, the poor F/O's who have to endure your constant bitching in the cockpit can't. I pity them, almost as much as I pity you.

Not to defend AC, but what he could be trying to say is, that the ENTIRE pay package and benefits fall way short of some of the legacy and other major airlines out there. To say that the EK is one of the top pilot packages in the world is off the mark. And AC will probably say that it was a huge mistake to leave DL/NWA when he did. Even with a full captain's monthly pay (say 12 yrs) and a full utilities allowance....it still falls short of being a leader in our industry. EK has made some of the top profits in the last few years in comparison, yet the package lags (including flying anywhere from 85-90 hrs/mo) with all leave not alocated and sick leave returned in ADs. Oh well.

Now what choice do we have? None, plain and simple. To call the EK pilots p*****s, is way off the mark.:= What do you propose we do AC? It is a love or leave it situation we are all in. If we had a crystal ball, many would never have left from where we came. But we don't so we are here, and all we can do is grin and bear it. But please gents, don't think this is one of the better deals around. The problem is, for many of us, it is the best deal available because of senority, etc.

And finally, being from a European country just 5-8 hours away changes the game in comparison to those from N/S America and the Pacific islands. So it really is a perspective type of deal. A pilot from Zim., is going to have a different perspective of EK than if one is from the US. It really is apples and oranges.

So from my perspective, AC you're wrong in calling the EK pilots spineless and p*****s and I think you other guys are wrong in the love or leave it mentality and saying we have an industry leading deal. I'm the only one who is correct, in my perspective:E of course.

TU,

I don't actually see anyone here arguing that EK is a world leading gig. It has some huge advantages for a lot of us, and is better than is available in most of the world at the moment.

ACs idea that the reason we don't earn the same as a US lgacy major pilot is because we're spinless

Does he think US REGIONAL pilots are spinless whimps, when they work harder than us for a fraction of our pay?

US Legacy vs EK.
Just done upgrade training with some 30 something lads who have the potential of 20+ yrs in the left seat in EK, no direct taxation(yet!), free housing(if you want) etc etc.

Yes without doubt the headline salary figure for Legacy(read cp11 etc!) is higher but by the time a pilot achieves the Legacy mega bucks he will only have maybe 7 years on it maybe. minus tax , housing etc etc

So you take the money, you make your choice.

One thing is certain though, if you spend your life with anger and vitriol in your soul it will kill you early.

Keep it safe guys.

That is the truest thing written in this thread so far:ok:

Thanks for the thoughtful words TU. After staying up all night reflecting on another Red-Eye flight maybe the term of the female's atatomy describing the Emirates pilot group was harse or over the top. There is a preponerance of pilots that think Ek is a good deal and I in a frustrating way try to enlighten the Kool-Aid drinkers that there is a whole another world out there. Maybe my methods were not PC but I hope the message got through.
Wiz is a piece of work. I don't know why he keeps refering to the Regionals in the US. Maybe that is his skill set baseline or he is use to that kind of salary but there are just as many airlines in OZ similar to the US regionals however there are plenty more airlines in the US that pay far more than Wizo is use to. And yes the US regionals need to raise their game and demmands before that becomes the New Norm.
I fully realize that some of the pilots are stuck at Ek through either career decisions or false assumptions, I being the latter. But to defend a mediocre airline just because you have had nothing better or can't go anywhere is not in your profession's best interest. Who among us would not want $270 an hour plus the perks? I sincerely hope I can count on one hand how many EK pilots would not want to make that kind of coin. I try to make plain what the EK pilots are missing with terminology and contract itmes when compared to other international, wide body, legacy pilot's contracts.
Although I have been into TCAS' office more than the average EK pilot has ventured I am not optimistic about our chances of getting anything like a DL contract hence part of my frustration. Compound that with the usual suspects at Ek drinking the company Kool-Aid and not wanting to rock the boat and we will never get close to Industry Standard.

AC,

With such a strong post ...we are all looking fwd to wishing you well @ your new gig at Delta...and good luck on the 777 upgrade in 2035...

The only way I am drinking your "kool- aid" and paying homage to the DAL pilots testiculos...

Is when they get the following..

...777 upgrade at 4 yr seniority

... 1st $100k tax free

...silver Chauffeur sedan to and from Atlanta airport from my house

... $50,000 per year to pay my mortgage

...a smile from the FG 1 more than once a decade

...cash per diem, envelope local currency on check in at hotel.

... Virtually free healthcare

How long have you been here? Lets say 4ish years...

YOU!(not us kool-aid drinkers) Signed a contract for 3% For three yrs

And in the last four yrs YOU have had a pay raise of 29% and bonuses of 29 weeks since May of 2008 which was not in YOUR contract (12% of pay raise was if we use 3% per year).

So grab your wheelbarrow, the one used by your Delta buddies, stick your nuts in it and enjoy the 1st class seat back...after all Nything less just wouldn't be ballsy ...now would it.

f.

AC,

What would a year 1 FO at Delta make compared to a year 1 FO at EK if they both signed up today..?

Forget for a minute what a 30yr Delta 777 skipper makes. The world was a different place back then.

You can factor in the benefits that EK FO's get that the Delta FO's do not get, as per fliions' post, if you like.

Can someone also point me in the right direction of these great deals to be had..? because I just rang up Lufty and asked if I could join on their 380 fleet at year 20 seniority and they told me to kcuf off..!