MPL Alpha Aviation UAE - CAUTION!
 

For those that have seen the ad here on this site regarding the Multicrew Pilot Licence program with Alpha Aviation Academy (UAE) and might be thinking of joining - a little word of caution:

That same company has been running the same program in the Philippines (Clark) for the past 2 years now... Not one single cadet has graduated yet!

The initial promise was that the course would be done in one year. It's been double that now for the initial batches (think about living expenses, food, lost revenue if you gave up your job for this) and still no light at the end of the tunnel.

This MPL licence thing is still very much in it's beginnings and Alpha have jumped the gun and started offering it to anyone who is willing to part with some cash.

Please understand this: The MPL licence programme can only be done under the auspices of an airline. You MUST be a cadet and sponsored by an airline from day 1 to be able to complete this programme. It will have to be the airline to accept you and channel you through Alpha, you cannot be self sponsored. Do not believe any promises from the school that if you get on board now they will eventually find an airline to accept you later. It cannot be done.

ICAO representatives have been in the Philippines at the Clark Institute of Aviation the past month assessing the program as offered by Alpha and were not too pleased. They have informed the students there that whoever was not sponsored by the patronizing airline (Cebu Pacific in this case) would not be issued an MPL licence. It was not how ICAO had devised the MPL programme but rather just an interpretation from the school. So most of the cadets there (self-sponsored) will be left with absolutely no licence. Some of them have been there for 2years now and they will have nothing to show for it except 70 hours of flying on their logbooks. They paid 75,000 USD so those were very expensive flight hours...


For more information on how this program has been conducted so far please refer to the http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far...-aviation.html thread on the South Asia forum. Post questions to the cadets there to get an idea on what you will be getting into. Try to avoid the same traps and pitfalls that these guys are going through. I will ask some of the cadets to post on this thread so as to share their experiences with you.

The MPL programme has not, so far, been conducted in the most appropriate way by Alpha. There has been a lot of trial and error.
So please make sure you get answers to any and every question you might have regarding this programme from Alpha, from the Sponsoring Airline and from the licence issuing Civil Aviation Authority before you commit your money.

For those of you who do decide to join the programme - Good Luck.

By starting this thread it is only my intent to help you to ensure that luck will not be a required factor in completing the programme.
I have no ill will whatsoever towards Alpha Aviation Academy and I believe that the MPL, if properly conducted as devised by the airlines and ICAO, is/will be a very valid path.

Salesman are salesman, pilots are pilots. I am a pilot.

Just trying to give you a heads up on some hurdles you might encounter as others have encountered with the same organisation.


Airbusbatics

@ Airbusbatics
 

Hi, Thank You for the information, I have some more info to add, AAA UAE is 51% owned by Air Arabia...& as I hear from some sources...Air Arabia will be recruiting from this school Plus providing their cadet pilot program in that school...but nothing is confirmed yet, so we're back to square 1.

I will be starting my flight training at a different place that is DAE Flight Academy & would like to know more about your impression/advice of that Academy!!!

but nothing is confirmed yet
 

& never will be.

Alpha Aviation Academy .. in Philippines has tie up Cebu Pacific but no one graduated...:=

I'm amazed to hear that all those cadets, or most of them, are after a non-sponsored/self-sponsored MPL training! That school must have exerted all the efforts to market its failing product. I'm not against MPL, but it shouldn't go this way though.

Greedy schools took advantage of the heedless enthusiasm of wannabes, while ICAO officials didn't do much to raise the awareness of the airline-specific/tailored new type of licence. I think this is where the problem lies.

I am not sure ICAO is to blame for anything here....

As far as I know some ICAO Officials have visited that academy and were not so happy with the way things are going over there. May be it's not their legal responsibility, but they still carry some ethical responsibility, since ICAO is the "authority" endorsing and encouraging the MPL concept at first place. I think they are only partially blamed as they could have dealt better with what they've witnessed. Don't you think they should have made themselves very clear about where do they stand from this tryout rats academy?!
Sorry to cadets! no offense.

As previously stated, ICAO do not do audits of Training Academies. If what you say is true they would have been doing an Audit of the Phillipines CAA (CAAP I think) and it's supervision of training.

Any points that they raise will be findings that apply to the CAAP.

Anyone notice the Alpha Aviation Acad. banner in the ME forum??

Its advertising the MPL and 40 sectors on the 320. I assume this initial operating experience (40 sectors) is with an agreement with an airline...air arabia?

not a bad deal...

Ax

ax,
are clark offering time on the a320 as well or its just alfa in sharja?

LomSeeWak
 

Clark has some sort of an agreement with Cebu Pacific...I ASSUME its a conditional hiring agreement, if so the new hire will get line training anyway but how many sectors will depend on the Philippines CAA BUT as mentioned before on this thread, no cadets have graduated yet from Clark.

Ax

heard all cadets at Alpha UAE will get 40 sectors with partner airline....can someone confirm if its Air Arabia?

Ayla..you are talking about legal responsibility, and I agree with you..but that wasn't my point buddy!:ok:

AAA
 

Guys,

I've met the guys at Alpha Aviation and the setup is pretty good. I spoke the students as well and they've been guaranteed 40 sectors on the A320. It's no one's guess that its going to be Air Arabia for these sectors.

@ netfreak
 

Thanks for the info...I wanted to join their training program in Sharjah...but, I was really afraid to get into the problems that the Phillipino guys went through at Clark Aviation!!!, so I went to the Ab-Intio training to get the F-ATPL...lets see if they graduate on-time & get a JOB after graduation.

I just heard that MPL carriers would last longer as FOs than that of the F ATPL holders, is that right!

Great- you get 40 sectors in an A320- but do you get a License that will be acceptable to get a JOB????

Wake up..it's MPL!!
 

It seems that there are some people who still don't get it. MPL is an Airline-specific training course. The training provider should formulate the training needs of a certain employer into the course offered to the SPONSORED cadets under the general outline of MPL concept. So if some1 gets the MPL in a self-sponsored manner, then he is putting himself in a serious risk as his training was based on the needs of NOBODY!:ugh:

This type of licence is still far away from being an alternative to the fATPL course. And even those few airline companies who have showed the interest in MPL, still didn't take any serious steps forward implementing it as such in the near future. MPL carries lots of critics which make employers up until now suspecious about it. Only few systematic Beta-versions, with limited number of cadets, of the MPL have been tried in few countries (Australia and Denmark I guess).

So unless it is 100% guaranteed that a valid recruitment agreement between Alpha and Air Arabia or any other specific employer is there, then going for that course must be a practice of gambling hobby no more.

malirm, you've done the right thing anyway.

Cheers

Air Arabia
 

If what Malirm says is true that AAA is 51% owned by Air Arabia (pls confirm anyone because this means this academy is therefore majority owned by Air Arabia, and not the other way around), isn't it logical to assume that Air Arabia is the partner airline for this MPL, which in turn fulfills Airbusbatics' main apprehension for the MPL (must have sponsor from day1)?

as for Clark, i guess no one should take anyone's word in this anonymous forum at face value. that ICAO report should be damning, if it is true, but since CAAP is the one who should be enforcing the CAR, everything has to be cross checked with them guys. last i heard, they are very close to doing Base training and licensing, but this is another rumor that needs to be checked.

@ Mt2007
 

I am 100% sure of my info...I spoke with them on the phone + my Avionics Teacher (who worked for Emirates Aviation College) works there after all, he was the one to invite me to that Academy!!!, but no one (even some employees) can say that MPL is the best choice at the moment! (but it will in the near future, say in 2011).

Sharjah CAA
 

Has Sharjah CAA (sorry not sure what its name is) included the MPL in its CAR?

'Has Sharjah CAA (sorry not sure what its name is) included the MPL in its CAR?'

that's the UAE GCAA...the MPL is currently being worked on by them to be implemented in the near future.

Ax

Clark update
 

guys some things are developing over on the philippine islands you may want to check it out in the link provided by Airbusbatics. heard that some 10 cadets have been cleared by CAAP to do base training, and that the partner airline is now making preparations to do it before end April. this is pretty interesting news.

I cannot believe I am reading this.... you people are insane.
40 sectors, that's 20 flights, even at 5 hours per flight, that's a whopping 100 hours on type, if you are lucky you might just have got rid of the safety pilot, let alone a line check. You think that can get you a Job??????????????????????? Really. good luck then.
Also the MPL is airline specific, you need to have a job. Are there any written guarantees you will have a job????? I very much doubt this.
I know you will all tell me you know better, well good luck, just trying to give a bit of advice from someone who has been there.
Good flying
FC

'40 sectors, that's 20 flights, even at 5 hours per flight, that's a whopping 100 hours on type, if you are lucky you might just have got rid of the safety pilot, let alone a line check. You think that can get you a Job??????????????????????? Really. good luck then.'

....why the shock?? why the drama? Sorry but I really don't see any advice in your post. Did you ever hear about a govt. organization called NASA that sent 2 men to the moon, about 40 years ago!!?? :eek: ...without any prior actual time in space...thats a 'whopping' 0 hours on type (read lunar module).

ok, maybe the above is an overkill...but the 40 sectors is highly do-able, as long as the trainees are motivated and the infrastructure is in place...by the way, they fly 40-45 sectors AFTER they get hired by the airline as a second officer. Furthermore, Air Arabia recognizes the MPL program and prefers to other syllabi. This reduction in line training is granted due to the quality of basic training these guys receive from day one. Its nothing to get worried about Cortina, we humans can pull off even higher functions than just flying an A320.

PEACE
Ax

well..
 

alpha aviation UAE is a quiet good place though, i have been to there initial training facility and its quiet good until their new facility gets ready next year. What i really think is that if they keep on with the schedule they'll be alright. Now for UAE nationals at a successful graduation they are garunteed a job, for the expats after graduation they are garunteed an interview, and yes after these 40 sectors they will do other 40 - 45 sectors in the airline which is fair enough! 70 hours on a single engine, though having less actual flying hours at the end but the graduate will have the type rating + lots of knowledge which have been an exchange for the less hours for the multi rating or whatever..thats what they say. After the 70 hours flying the students will sit for nearly 6 months of simulators, FNPT2 and Full level D sim, it is a real good replacement for a normal CPL/IR then you have to fund sim and whatever.. they will have there own facility equipped with these simulators and they are on the way, and the facility is 80% built.. its good over here, the situation in cebu maybe different.. because of managerial issues maybe? but what i say.. they will be fine over here, and it is confirmed that alpha is 51% owned by air arabia here..

What is the cost of the whole MPL course? I heard its nearly half a million dirhams!!!! :eek:

AED 450,000 as tuition fees only! Doesn't include anything other than the course cost :mad:

BTW..I think MPL is supposed to be less costly compared to the conventional fATPL course.. Obviously Alpha aviation is considering the value of the cadets waiting in sand pit!!! :ugh::ugh:

About the MPL
 

HI Guys, I am scheduelled for the Screening at AAA in Sharjah, I do confirm what emiratesson said, about the expats part...I think that even though you haven't got a guaranteed job...the airline will accept & hire a large number of the expats as they are trained to Air Arabia's standards & have flew with them (while training), in general, I have changed my mind about DAE flight Academy in RAK (f ATPL) & will go for the MPL at Alpha Aviation...where I think that 12 + 40 sectors is a good experience (say about 120 hours minimum on average).

I was told from one of the captains/Instructors in the academy...the point of Air Arabia & Alpha Aviation Academy to open this program is to get a constant supply of QUALITY pilots & get paid for doing so...he also told me that they are providing such a program so that I can get a job at the end, they just don't want to guarantee you the job so that they don't get screwed or Sued !, bytheway...Air Arabia ordered 49 A320s that are going to start the delivery by mid 2010...imagine every 6 weeks a new aircraft arrives & an average of 8 Pilots are needed per aircraft to run it around the month :ok:

Hi malirm, i hope you do well on your assessment today, sunday 12th, what you said is absoloutly right, i met you over there last week if you remember, you had a discussion with them, and its good that you've changed your mind, but about the cost, yes it is high to be honest, even themselves say its high..but as i said, if they stick to their schedules for the lessons AND flying, everything will be alright, and there is no chances for delays becasue the sims will be there soon as i heard.

High MPL Cost
 

If i remember correctly in the last APATS 2008 the notion that MPL is a) a cost saver and b) a short cut have been blown away. As a couple of beta tests around the world (and some still in the planning/ budgetting phases) have shown (including the favorite whipping boy of MPL haters around the world, Clark Aviation) the MPL requirements actually could mean training time is comparable to the normal fATPL + Type Rating course, while the cost could actually be higher due to the cost of doing sim training (more hours compared to normal Type Rating) plus the TAGS on the actual aircraft. Time-wise, if any savings will be generated at all it will only amount to a couple of weeks/months, but definitely not years. In terms of money, it is actually going to cost more so Silver5 you are totally inaccurate in your assumption.

So it begs the question: Why would the airlines want to invest in an MPL rather than the conventional route? Because in theory, and I admit this is a potentially explosive idea in this forum, the MPL is supposed to produce First Officers who are better trained in cooperating in a Multi Crew environment managing the systems of a sophisticated aircraft but who is expected to assert to the Captain if something is going wrong. In other words, when MPL was first conceived, it was supposed to address Safety issues especially concerning TEM and MCC/ CRM. Admittedly i may be guilty of oversimplifying the Training issues concerned but my point is that if the MPL is turning out to be a workable alternative to the fATPL, then it can only be good for the industry first in terms of safety, then later on in terms of money and time.

quote:

"the MPL is supposed to produce First Officers who are better trained in cooperating in a Multi Crew environment managing the systems of a sophisticated aircraft but who is expected to assert to the Captain if something is going wrong. In other words, when MPL was first conceived, it was supposed to address Safety issues especially concerning TEM and MCC/ CRM. Admittedly i may be guilty of oversimplifying the Training issues concerned but my point is that if the MPL is turning out to be a workable alternative to the fATPL, then it can only be good for the industry first in terms of safety, then later on in terms of money and time"


thats what they concentrate on during training, the simulator sessions will be full of emergency procedures or whatever concerns TEM, MCC and CRM. In my opinion i say that the course is worth the cost, they will do what the have to do to teach..

So if a person goes for A320 rating after CPL, won't he go through the same "emergency procedures", "MCC environment", etc? Or is it something special for the MPL cadets? I still don't understand the reason to pay such a high amount for a course that doesn't guarantee much. Anyhow, my best wishes to the cadets.

I called to get some info regarding type rating and line training opportunities as I'm already fully licensed and experienced. They said that they were not offering anything else than MPL licenses. Since all companies are recruiting with TR and minimum of 500h on type and that old guys are always blaming people paying for their trainings I wonder how corporate guys like me can step-in and compete with cadets/MPLs...

S.F.L.Y.. its worth a competition ;)...

I am joining the academy next month, and will go through the courses, until now the guys from the first batch are doing really well.. so lets see how it goes because i think it's good to have an MPL despite of the price...

@ OMDB
 

i think you need to compare the number of hours in a typical A320 TR program versus the equivalent in the MPL. the MPL supposedly has more hours, thus training is more thorough.

With my full respect to all of MPL/Alpha Aviation Enthusiasts, you guys just want to take the risk anyway!

Now consider this:

MPL is an airline-specific training.
In this case it's Air Arabia needs, SOP,s and SEP,s (or at least supposed to be so!).
Some of you are telling that there is no guaranteed job that is formally offered to accepted cadets, but the job is there at the end with Air Arabia.

1. Can you give me just 1 good reason for Air Arabia not giving a job guarantee?

2. If Air Arabia wants MPL cadets, and Alpha Aviation is offering MPL training, and also Alpha Aviation is owned by Air Arabia, then why the hell should the accepted cadets pay for their training? Not even training agreement bond by which the airline will pay back the training money once the trainees are hired?!!!

It's like an airline is telling the its own pilots this "We want you to get the training on this or that. But hey, you are paying for it"! Non-sense!!!

MPL should not be self-sponsored..ever! That's the way it goes with Flybe MPL cadets in UK..that's the way it happened with Sterling Airlines MPL cadets at CAPA Denmark (although the graduated cadets were thrown in the sea having no place in the airline they have trained to work for!!) that's the way it went with Alteon-Boeing cadets from Chinese Airlines in Australia! Simply you should not pay extra money to get a seat in the cockpit. On the contrary, the airline should pay you!

So at these circumstances if I were you, I would go for Alpha Aviation and MPL training...but only if I have half million Derhams and don't know where to spend them. Even with such imaginary situation, the last thing I want to do is to give my money to the people who never reply an enquiry via email.. not after 3 weeks now! This is not a professional attitude at all.

Finally, you should be prepared to the worst scenario. What if you one day want to leave Air Arabia for good and shift to another airline for whatever reason. Who will be hiring you?!:suspect:

It's not MPL world yet, is it?

Hi Silver,
Good post. I am not convinced with the MPL way either.

But one point! who gives a guarantee???? Do we get a guarantee going by the CPL/ATPL/IR +Type Rating + etc which costs the same as MPL.

I think there are no guarantees in aviation at all!:sad:

@ LomSeeWak
 

Yes, you are right. There is no job guarantee to fATPL cadets (unless with few FTO,s worldwide). But on the other hand, this is an issue with MPL.

Because cadets under MPL training will receive a tailored training to fit certain employer, they have been selected by that employer to fit the training they will deliver at first place. You can think of it like an airline company that is selecting some pilots from the pool to train them on a new type or send them for a bridge course. Talking about employers' point of view, there is no such a thing that says "MPL fits all". Unlike fATPL training which is almost standardized and well-defined for both FTO,s and employers.

I'm not against MPL, guys. I just don't think this is the right way to do it.


Cheers

Apparently Air Arabia is more interested in low time MPLs than experienced but non type rated fATPLs... and that seems very wrong to me.

So what happens if Air Arabia doesn't consider the MPL cadets at the end? Where do the students stand at that point and what options do they have? They can apply to any airline seeking A320 pilots, no? I mean all that A320 rating and sector training shouldn't be a waste of time (and money) I think.