well, my former employer was by no means a major world player, but for flight deck, we had upgraded suite, breakfast (when applicable), and one uniform to laundry...so I guess it depends on what your carrier is able to negotiate..

As you explained earlier....

VAMY
Where you a Pilot in a previous life, you're almost coming over as condescending.....

Vamy
In that case try not coming over as a know it all......

I hope Saudia can learn from the current Ryanair chaos. You can upset your crew to a certain extent but if you push it beyond that certain point you're going to get a high turnover of Pilots. An efficient training system seems to allow for a 10% annual turnover but once you hit 15%+ then you're grounding large numbers of flights. Saudia couldn't even manage a 10% turnover.

Saudia have large numbers of cadets in the system to fill slots left by people leaving but I don't think even that'll work. The Saudi cadets are highly qualified individuals who have high expectations, when they realize that Saudia will only disappoint it is unlikely they will stick around.

Guess what the latest scoop is....
they are forcing people to move to Riyadh base !

Well, by what I hear they have already forced over 100 pilots to Riyadh.
With a one liner email.
'You are posted to RUH WEF 1st Nov'
This place is a joke. Time to runnnnn !!

Have they removed the 10 days off for RUH base?

Guess they are planning to but Not yet.

How on earth do they plan to attract pilots to RUH if they withdraw the 10 off?

They have 200 empty apartments waiting for the expats from JED to join the RUH base. My guess is that all contract renewals will be to the RUH base.

They are not planning to remove the 20/10 anytime soon. This " lifestyle " has been offered to Saudis as well for 2018.

Thats the way to chop off all the overtime and extra credit hrs due to D/H. 65-80 max credit is what we are looking at on 77.

I'm quite certain not a single saudi has been offered the 20/10 as yet. Which negates the whole purpose of offering it to expats.
If an expat in he middle of his contract is offered RUH base why would he take it if he doesn't get 20/10. It's quite ridiculous really.

@Top Gun : It has been offered to Saudis in RUH. Half of them are taking the 20/10 in January.
@Flyboy : You're correct.

The A330 CA Lines for NOV do not have 10 days off in a row.

Are you indicating at the Saudis who are originally residents of Riyadh. Are these he ones who have been offered 20/10 in Riyadh?

Bid sheet information page, point #8 says - "(10/20) Lifestyle to be bid by non Saudi only".

320 has these lines still.

Very little confirmation on how many people are actually being forced to move to RUH. Only a small handful will confirm they have received an email.

Looks like it is happening in reverse seniority order.

To be fair, it is brand new base this November, there are a grand total of 9 lines in RUH for 330.

Top Gun : You're right, I should have been more precise. I've only heard about Saudis in Riyadh. I don't know about Jeddah !
Metro : Yes, it says for non Saudi only, but this is the old bulletin. Saudi Capt / FO in Riyadh have been offered the choice when bidding for next year Vacations. Either 20/10 or 30 days vacations.

For the Riyadh base joiners, and until the end of 2017, the lines will be as followed : 20/10 with 5 consecutive days off and 5 reserve days; or on a 25/5 basis. This is because the new joiners had their vacations in 2017, while the ones who joined Ruh base in March were not untitled for it.

I don't think that the 20/10 has only 5 days in a row, most probably it'll be just like every other 20/10 like Ethiopian for example, 20 work days and 10 consecutive days off, or 25/12, otherwise it makes no sense.
The fact that they moved people without any other choice is not the best way of doing things and most probably, the guys in RUH will also lose all the nice long flights like YYZ MAD MAN and others and most probably sooner or later they will leave.

Jack, they cover the 20/10 schedule using accrued vacation days. People taking the 20/10 don't get an annual 30 day vacation. That leave is basically broken up and distributed on a monthly basis to cover the 20/10 schedule. If a pilot has no accrued leave in the "bank", then the company will replace those "off" days with work days / reserve.

The 20/10 roster is another thing actually, let me make the same example, in Ethiopia you join directly with 20 work days 10 off days, accrued leave has nothing to do, in the 20/10 there’s no leave anyways.
If you divide 30/12 is 2.5 days, the rest is 7.5.
It’s a strange 20/10 then, not attractive at all and you still lose the best flight.... We’ll see the result.

Yes... It is strange,

Apparently some were given just two weeks notice. Even those who have the apartments. It would take at least three months for the lines and the Ruh base to get stabilized imho.

The only thing I can say with complete confidence is that if the company does not start 20/10 for the expats IMMEDIATELY on their arrival into Riyadh, there won't be even 10 percent expats left in Saudia within 3 months. IF EVEN 10 percent !
Because the ONLY reason that each and every expat is moving to Riyadh is the fact that he gets to meet his family for 10 days every month. You take that away and you have nothing.
So if Saudia wants to keep the fleet afloat I feel they should hold up their end of the bargain.

But even with the 10 days off we are hearing stories of mass resignations as those with families in Jeddah or those chasing maximum cash are unhappy.

Getting 20/10 if your family is in Jeddah is as useful as an umbrella in a desert.
And by right, all expats posted to Riyadh have to accept 20/10 ( I could be wrong here).
Which means that even though the forced Riyadh transfer may have been barely acceptable, the 20/10 and consequential salary loss would not !
Thus the 50-60 resignations ...

Not true for 320 fleet.

Sorry, I should have added, no one know for sure yet. The 320 folks are more worried on there not being enough 20/10 lines. Everything is rumour at this point, no one is particularly happy.

Time to bail out.
For all ....!!!

Many have, are about to or are planning to!
Not many contract renewals taken up for the non-disclosed; unclear & ambiguous "new contract". Those that have are fully utilising the 2 months notice period. It appears SV are about to have a very serious crew shortage issue but are blinded by their fracture & poor mismanagement & arogance.
Last one, turn out the lights please.

20-10 is offered only to the expats who have leave balance. Else 5 days off + 5 days reserve.


We got to wait and watch the game, local cadet induction, fleet transfers and upgrades are going in full swing though.

Who is going to fly the -8F? Regular crews or contracted?

Any truth to the rumour that contracts are not being renewed for the over 58's? And that any contract renewal now is only for 1 year?

In line with full saudiization by the end of 2020.

The Rumor is a Fact!!!

Now I remember why I hate consultants.

A Yemeni long range ballistic missle fires at the Riyadh Airport.
Apparently intercepted by the Saudi defense system. But pics/bp videos on ground and blasts heard say otherwise.
Looks like it made a hit on the remote bays ... ��
Too army however to tell yet.
But I think this is a sign from the heavens ... ☠️

FIFY

And the Crown Prince has fired half the KSA Govt & the Lebanese PM has resigned ( in Riyadh) ----- we do live in interesting times. Stay safe you guys who have to go there

Seems that there is major turmoil in the country.

Any impact (yet?) on day to day operations