In my last reserve month was originally scheduled 99.4 hrs, five xx days and the longest sector was seven hrs. A ripper! Ended as 92 hrs and seven xx days, though I spent one day in Dubai in the first 13.
This month the guys on reserve are being allocated the ULR flights that were taken from the bids to reduce the days off of the guys at the top. Instead of having the ULR manned, they allocated all the short flights and used reserve coverage to cater for the rest.

Well I'm on reserve this month - done 2 trips making 30 hours so far.... 5 days xxr already and nothing on the horizon...
I'm not sure how crew control are working this if some of the other 'bus guys are flat out:confused:

Restrictng the roster in this manner is inappropriate under the circumstances of trying to recruit and retain pilots. It does not encourage or support team participation by the pilot group and fails to establish any common goals with management...... If these words don't sound familiar then have a look at the EK Pilot Assessment Markers (PAMs) under "leadership". It equates to a score of "1" ie a FAIL.

Yup - Its all about increasing productivity and lowering cost per pilot/hour.

A productivity hour costs the company about 50% of what the normal roster hour costs.

Do the math.
A) Salary + Accom + School Fees(Avg 2 kids) + ALT + ERP, Profitshare + Uniform + Medical etc.
B) Yearly hours = 820 hrs (10.5 months at 78 hrs/month) (1.5 month leave approx)

Divide A by B to get cost per hour.
Answer is: Much more than the pathetic rate paid for productivity.

So EK makes each pilot hour cheaper, requires less recruitment this year, which in turn lowers the pressure to increase salaries expecially in a recession.

Training load is reduced and more may turn to training. Training costs are reduced. Currently a training captain in productivity is cheaper than a line captain!

There are more subtle implications. Once the initial shock has been swallowed the days off can be manipulated around the following:
Days off post leave. Currently some pilots use small chunks of leave which has the effect of increasing days off in a year. This can now be counted out of the system by including them in the maximum.
Days off downroute. Already happening on a small scale. Expect more of this when the roster requires it to maximise productivity.
There are a few others...

Like everything else at EK, this is not a random bright idea from one individual. There has been a thorough cost analysis showing large savings.

No-one will leave, there will still be new joiners. (EK's PR and recruitment is still well presented and appealing to the uninformed)

Ed got the job of presenting the system. As usual it was done last thing in the week to give everyone time to absorb it before acting pre-emptively.

This is another big move, similar to the "cost neutral" scheme that lowered cost per pilot/hour a few year back. This is the first of a number of moves.

Standby for the changes to minimum qualifications for recruitment and maximum hours permitted in a year. Both are required to give weight to the new changes. When they are effected, we will be working for considerably less per hour, there will be less commuting and any idea on basings will drift into oblivion as it will never compete economically.

I would enjoy reading the full proposal that was drawn up to present to management. The numbers, options and possibilities must be impressive.

Pilots must accept that every change is to ensure only one thing. Increased productivity at their expense.

I have put in my March bid and look forward to finding out how things turn out. I've bid heavily for Ultra Long Haul, and normally would pick up two in this bid group.

I really can't see that happening with the the new rules. Not to mention all the other rules that are already in place. The pilot must be current in this region, that region, ULR, turnarounds, the ridiculous "variant" rules (which essentially allow the company to break their own FTL's), must have flown such and such a variant within the last blah, blah. It's impossible to second guess. It feels like a complete waste of my time bothering to bid at all.

I have a feeling the pilots who are doing "Sweet FA" on their reserve are B777 FO's. I have talked to a few who had it easy recently. We must be a bit top heavy there. I had reserve recently, 98 hours in one month and managed to fly from one side of the world to completely the opposite side in just over a week. Needless to say I wasn't sleeping well nor at the appropriate times.

The CRS bidding system has worked very well at other operators but EK must fiddle...... Whilst Rome burns.

I'm Leaving. There will be others.

The Rev

Sure you are Rev.

My point is that if everyone who threatened this on Pprune actually did leave, EK would be in trouble.

The fact is the attrition rate has slowed recently, not increased. Hence the bold new moves from management.

Supply and Demand. Pilots are essentially doing business with Arab Traders. Historically they have always been excellent at this game and will squeeze a much better bargain than anyone from the west.

Attrition has slowed but it usually happens in pulses and I believe it will increase.

There are going to be other options available and the way EK 'manage' they are making it much easier to leave.

just press 2

Attrition of course has slowed. We are just three months away from getting our "huge" bonus (not profit share, MPBUH). This wonderful rostering has just come out so guys/gals are starting to take stock of what is available. Also, the three month notice will start kicking in after the bonus is paid. With the IAH ULH fiasco, the rostering changes, inflation and loss of buying power in DXB, general deteriotating conditions of living in Dubai-Yes this summer there will be attrition issues. And this will be felt where, primarily? B777 3-6 year captains. Their bond is down to zero, their hours are competitive and the age of the pilots relatively young compared with N.A. B777 skippers. Guys over 6 years have settled in with their families, their money is fair, and guys under three may still have a hefty bond to pony up.

Will this wake anyone up? Only when metal is parked-not one minute sooner. As long as flights arrive and depart on time (same day for EK), and metal is not bent, then our managers will see themselves as doing a masterful job with the assests they have.

Just my 2 fils:confused:

Looks like the Kool-Aid jug is running dry, eh?

Southie, the Kool Aid ran out a long time ago. Just a few of LRE's buddies drinking the drips from the A/C and thinking it's bubbly.

My crystal ball is similar to TU's. I reckon a handful of senior TRE/TRIs will go to V Oz with resignations going in after the May paycheck has been banked. Some line guys will follow, probably in the 3-6 year range mentioned.

A few more will go to basing deals with FE carriers. But not enough to start a panic. However recruiting will start to dry up and with lots of Factoring the sickness rate will creep up. Around the second half of the year there will be serious crewing issues. Then we'll see what our 'managers' are made of.

Probably have to park the 310 fleet and send those guys on the 777. That will help for a few months if it is done early enough. Unless they screw the 380 guys and make them fly the 340 as MFF, the Bus will get very ugly.

Have been wrong many times before - let's see how I do this time.

TU and 1011 are on the mark. Its normal for the rate of resignations to slow up leading into the bonus and pay rise announcement. If they were to base the pay rise on current resignation rate it would be a grave error as there will be an exodus to the places mentioned above. I also suspect the reason they stopped the 777 transfers from the Bus is they figured out exactly why almost ALL of the guys are actually doing it:cool:

The problems with attrition and recruitment are not limited to the pilot corps. They are having a lot of difficulty attracting and retaining personnel in all areas - this directly from HR. It isn't hard to see why when your grocery bill doubles in the span of a year, and you don't have company accommodation to shield you partially from inflation. It used to be you stayed until you could afford to leave. People are leaving now because they can no longer afford to stay. More than a subtle distinction, no?

Attrition slowing? On the contrary, as noted above it has to be examined in the context of both the three month notice period and the time of year. Month over month alone is not the whole picture.

But to bring it back on point, making regressive changes to rostering is hardly a wise move when trying to recruit for an expansion.

If you are right about the bonus causing the crrent drop in resignations, stand by for the rush on or soon after the 28th Feb. 90 days notice means resigntion tendered 28 Feb = end of service on 31 May, and as long as you're still on the payroll on 31 May, you are eligible for the bonus.

If you are right about the bonus causing the crrent drop in resignations, stand by for the rush on or soon after the 28th Feb. 90 days notice means resignation tendered 28 Feb = end of service on 31 May, and as long as you're still on the payroll on 31 May, you are eligible for the bonus.

Calling in fatigued for a duty is marked as SKF...just FYI

SKV8, would that mean "sickness due to fatigue?"
Interesting, they made sure to include the SK.

As a matter of fact, for a few years now all the ASRs reporting fatigue are handed over to this FR ... something group at the EK clinic. Obviously, nothing changes and the fatigue-inducing patterns are still there.

Does anyone believe that the fatigue group would advise the commercial department on this or that pattern?
I believe people should address the ASRs directly to the GCAA, if that would do any good.

Emirates is out there for a profit at all costs. The owners, would not settle for less and we are all here to be used for that purpose.
With no western-styled labor laws, very little would be achieved by the employees in terms of getting these patterns changed.

More time off
 

If we are soo tired in our bottom bid groups why not target a MINIMUM of 12 days off in a month . Thus increasing moral and recruitment . Yes I live in a fantasy land , Im also hoping when we move to the new CBC beer will flow from the water fountains .

Profit Share date
 

Correction to my earlier post.

Took the trouble to look up the HR Manual (Groupworld>HR>IncentivesProfit Share...if you are bored enough)

It says: So...if you are going to leave make sure you are here to pick up the June paycheck - 26th usually. Think MTOW said 31st May which is not correct.

Not that it will be much anyway. If the company makes $1 Billion then we get two weeks. If the profit is greater, then 25% of the surplus.

Happy flying to those who leave - I've got the handcuffs on will be here sadly.:{

SKF is management speak for Skiving F**ker :E:E

EGGW

Can we still call it a bonus or Profit share?
 

The 2 weeks and the 25% of the surplus has been changed last year since it is now only applied to your basic salary. If you fly 75 hours a month average you should be very very close to your 900 hours and maybe more if you count the hours factored.

Depending of your position as Captain or F/O you will have reduction of your bonus this year. If we get 4.5 weeks like last year. Take your basic + your flight pay salary for the year divided by 52 weeks X 4.5 and this should be the bonus for your work for the year. So depending on how much you've worked dictates your bonus. If your worked a lot you get a smaller bonus. If you worked less and be unproductive you get more. Why? Because you don't get the bonus applied to your flight hours. What a funny way to reward your employees for their work... probably a manager idea. Work less get more. Work more get less. Can you be more :ugh: then that? Greed greed greed... Thinking about it, let's start a thread about this subject.

Keep discorering :ok:

My point is that if everyone who threatened this on Pprune actually did leave, EK would be in trouble.


Dude there is like 20 of you?? What difference would it make?

cadidalhopper - dude (if that's the term to use) you have way missed the point. All these little things and not so little things add up. Yes guys will threaten to leave, a few will, many are looking for other jobs at this moment. Eventually everyone gets to the point where they have had enough of the back stabbing, decreasing pay (in real terms with spiralling inflation - 36% at last look), changes in rostering, increasing levels of fatigue, lack of management support, bonus not reflecting profit made by company, lack of leave, pitiful pay rises no matching inflation, lack of communication between managment and pilots, decreasing morale etc etc. The list grows by the day.

As for the bonus I have almost reached the point of apathy, unfortunately as much as I would like it to be a good bonus and be followed by a good pay rise I know that it will not be what we expect, it will not be what we want, it will be considerably lower, lots of cabin crew will leave, flight crew morale wil drop further, more guys will get the 'who gives a !!!!!' attitude, more guys will call sick. The spiral downwards will contuinue, managment will keep their heads firmly stuck in the sand believing we are the best.

PS Why have I not left - I am waiting until my kids leave school then I'm off, I stay purely for stability for them, no other reason - I get job offers regularly. However this rostering change is getting me very close to leaving, I will have to see how it works out for me!!!

Mini

You reflect very accurately the greatest part of EKs workforce. I think a lot of FAs and groundhogs will leave after the "bonus", feeling that these idiots can now shove it up their own other "#nus". Those stuck with kids or other obligtions will adopt eklawyers attitude and compensate with sickies or at least the "i don't give a s#*t" work attitude.
Someone finally has to look after your health, the company declared war on your body, so there is only yourself left.
It will be interesting to see what happens after the first generation of major graduations ..... My kids done ... i'm gone.

Take take take, that's the new EK way
 

In the past 2-3 years, they took away our credits for leave (making it now guaranteed days off, not paid leave), took away the credits for reserve and simulator, the ground school is replaced by CBT on your own time, and now they limit the days off to increase productivity, what's next? The airline wants to increase it's pilots work force by 25% this year. It took them over 20 years to achieve the 2000 pilots status and want to grow by that much in a single year when they are cutting and cutting and cutting while achieving record profits....Good luck. The inflation is a record high with a currency at record low, so bad that the government employees get a 70% pay increase to compensate, we get a net salary decrease year after year.
Keep on discovering (or recruiting! would be a better word)

"Day Off" strings will be reduced to a maximum of 5 days, so they say.:zzz:

Can't wait for the march rosters.

Rosters are out, nice, isn't it?

Of course. They had to get them out on Thursday. That in itself is proof that they have been tampering and know that many will be very annoyed at what they see. They always publish bad news for Terms and Conditions on a Thursday so everyone has the weekend to digest it and accept it.

Got my March roster also....
Being in second bottom group all I can say is that I am pleasantly surprised with my March roster
(Feb was not toooo bad either....)

Told my wife it were my superior bidding skills at work... :hmm:

Honestly after 2 months I'm quite happy with the new bidding rules. :ouch:

5 Star Well Done.

Disconnected, absolute rubbish !

Poor us, just got optimized again and some are happy...
 

That's is how it will be. The guys in lower bids will get better rosters for a while of course. Since you can't get more then 14 days off in the upper bids you get more flights assigned. But wait a minute. What is going to happen in the long run? More planes, more flights, more hours. No problem there is now room to fit much more flights with much less pilots available and for cheaper. If we have to create rosters with more than the monthly hours no problem. Make them all do 100 hours and more. This way we pay them less for those hours, because after the monthly hours you don't get 12% or 15% in your provident fund, And if you are senior the money they give you doesn't cover your hourly rate... for those who can calculate it. So for now it looks like the bottom guys have nice schedule. I am top this month and can definitely see an flight extra that i never had to do before this change. You guys have no idea... they did not do this change for nothing i promise you. It will hurt in the long run that's for sure. There will be no planes grounded here as long as there are people. They will make us work 140 hours a month, and find a way to say we work less. Just before the pay review! You really have to be an idiot to think you will get more money. If you work 10 hours to get 100$ you don't get more if you get 120$ and work 12 hours. Wait and see the new changes that will come with the pay review. It's written all over the walls. Last year was the flight pay. This year? Some will still be "happy".

Keep Discovering:ok:

If you are augmenting you only log the hours you are in the seat- if you are the operating crew you log the whole block time.

Flight duty starts one hour before departure, even for ULH flights, and finishes at the on blocks time. There is no allowance for post-flight duties.:=

EK Lawyer - Spot on.

Its all about more hours out of less pilots. "Productivity Pay" is another way to say you get paid at half the hourly rate you actually cost on a normal roster.

This change is simply setting the foundations to extract more hours in future.

We can all look forward to higher average hours per month.

As for the pay review, the idiots will all say "Its great, I'm happy" because they are too stupid to figure out that they are actually losing.

Quoted from 5star:

"Honestly after 2 months I'm quite happy with the new bidding rules."

The new bidding rules were only applied starting March rosters.

New rules mmmm I have no doubt that a big thanks should in large part go to the Prima Donna TREs and TRIs who would constantly whinge and moan at there regular little get togethers about how unfair it was that worthless line pilots could get 10 days off in a row but we can't:{ ...... this amongst all the other sookie laa laas they carry on with.

So of course management respond to the only group they get to hear from in the only way they know how......bring everyone down to the same level.

Thanks a lot fellas.:yuk::mad:

Bird On, careful what you say. I heard the trainers fought the line pilots case at the last meeting, I think you ought to retract your statement. The Company want a crap roster for you so you join training !!!

Bird On, You are wrong. I was present at our "last little meeting" as you put it.

Quite a few of us challenged Ed on his decision. The first question that was raised, over this particular issue; Why was the pilot group not included in this decision? And then we stepped up the debate on this issue and many others too, like profit share,general pay rise and inflation etc... So, wind your neck in sparrow!!

Check 'Six'

Know about the last trainers meeting thanks. Its nice you have a forum to discuss such issues, unlike the line scum. Thanks again for raising all those issues. Not much in the way of answers though was there!!!!!

For months and months now trainers have been bending the ear of management with all their woes. Scummy line pilots getting better trips, better rosters, more days off, more productivity pay(as if they hadn't worked for it) etc etc.To improve their own conditions trainers have continued to hold up what little perceived advantages the line pilots had as some kind of easy yardstick to springboard off.

In this case the complaining backfired. Instead of bowing to the trainers and saying "your right to be fair we're going to give all you guys 11 days off in a row too", management just took the option away from everyone. Of course their was some reaction by trainers after the event. Now when they go back to the line either forced or voluntarily(as many will end up doing) one of the few benefits of flying the line has gone. So please don't get all altruistic on me. Of the many trainers I have spoken to at Emirates, not one has ever said they decided to get into training because they actually want to help and contribute to the development of other pilots. ( I think we all now the usual answers by now)

Of course its not entirely the fault of trainers, but seeds get sown, watered and grow in the minds of endearing managements such as EK's, so one thing we don't need any of is white-anting, not even just a little bit.

Anyway enough....your an incredibly talented group and I really do Luv Ya's.