Yes FAB where did you get your type rating, and how much $$$.
I'm a Canadian also but with several thousands of hours. I don't have any type ratings, but would love to learn how you went about it.
Thanks

skud

I did the space shuttle type rating, i have 0 time on type, but keeping my fingers crossed. i hear the baby boomers are about to retire...

:ok:

it's all possible!

I have a Swiss army knife and I passed o level Biology. Can I be a surgeon?
What if I will work for free and buy all the drinks at the golf club?
Okay. I start Monday at Doha general hospital.

Hiring Second Officers
 

Has anyone that sent in their application for the Second Officer program heard back from Qatar yet?

----Has anyone that sent in their application for the Second Officer program heard back from Qatar yet?----

No, was never able to get my email to work on the address provided. Anyone else have this problem???

There maybe some misinterpretation as to the role of a 2nd Officer. In the UK, Britannia (now Thomsonfly) have 2nd Officers who are just FrATPLs. When they hit the 1500 hrs and have the Green book issued, they are First Officers. Their job is just the same.

I read with interest at some of the comments by Rosbif or Global Nomad. What other choices does someone with 250 Hrs FATPL have? Currently it is a buy your own rating gamble where there is no guarantee of emplyment at the end. With the QR scheme, it "seems" like the traditional bonded arrangement where you must stay for 5 years and repay your type rating costs. You can still leave if you can pay the bond back.

If a low hours guy had gained just 500 hrs on type, he would instantly become more marketable with other airlines should the situation with QR be worst than expected.

Well done QR:ok:

It is all very easy for us, sitting at FL410 being fat and ( semi) happy, to say that this is a bad deal and everybody should stay away!

That is wrong! Remember when we where all looking for jobs and nobody wanted us. Just out of flying college with no more then 300hrs....

Hell, If I had an opportunity that is similar to this one back then I would have grabbed it with both hands!

As long as you are aware of the little script on the bottom of the contract I think this is a cracking deal!

So you fly 5 months as an SO for 7000QR/month....At least you are flying! And you are flying a modern airliner! After 5 months max you do an upgrade and you make more money then many captains flying in Europe....again flying a modern airliner!!!!

And yes, you have to stay 5 years unless you have won the lottery, in which case you would not have become a pilot I hope! So what, 5 years means 3500hrs heavy jet. You saved some money and after 5 years you can go and play with the big guys!!!!!

Where exactly is the catch????? Take it guys, this might be a golden opportunity.

I think QR is much better for these unexperienced FOs then for the loads of experienced guys we have just been attrackting overhere!!!
Currently time to command is 8-10 years!!!!!!!!!They have just announced that a maximum of 8 captain upgrades/year will be approved. This together with the rules of min 5000Hr heavy jet and 3 years in the company makes QR a very very unattractive deal to the experienced FO!!! Especially since these rules have been changed 5 times over the last three years and it seems they are only getting worse.

Makes you think, doesnt it?:yuk:

I have taken it from the lion's mouth, QR are currently running meetings to lay down the way they will go about this SOs in terms of the selection process, A) Aptitude tests or B) Technical Questions or C) group exercises. OR all these, I believe that should a simualtor trip be required it will be carried out on a Frasca 242 at a near by flying school. Just to assess the applicant handling skills and his IR skills. I have not heard anything yet but soon we shall all hear something, they are only looking for 12 people which makes sense since the SIM at France will require 2 crew.This is a trial period and if it works and all those lucky people succeed I presume that QR will continue with this deal for some time then stop it 'cos they are required by LAW to hire local i.e nationals of Qatar, a certain percentage of any establishment in the State of Qatar and so is the case in many Gulf states, I do not know however that percentage I think arond 50% correct me if I am wrong.


Keep your fingers crossed and pray to the Almight Lord.

Good luck to everyone.

Give 'em TWO weeks from today's date 2.2.2005

Read your old ATPL manuals and revise your Jepps charts.
<HINT>

That's some really useful information! Thanks :ok:

I have been reading and have gotten a few PM’s from people on this subject asking me what do I think? I have been very busy with flying, the Hajj Season with family and so on so I have not had time to sit and really reply or digest this entire situation.

Here is what I think about the events going on at QR concerning this:

They have been a few first officers that have gone out and bought an A-300 type rating in Jordan I believe and joined Qatar Airways. Some of them are the son’s of captains that are presently here with Qatar Airways. I have to add that they are not Qatari but are from another Arab country (not that this matters I think).
I think they have to go through 80 sectors with a training captain. Out of these 80 sectors, they don’t taxi the aircraft until sector 30 and it is a long tiring drawn out process for them of constant questions every flight. We all know that just doing the initial 6 to 7 sectors when you first join a company is hard, so can you imagine? Anyhow these guys are online now and I am not sure if they are getting paid as a F/O or a S/O don’t know anyway of finding out, sorry.

I think that this program of hiring these FEW guys went well so they are now and will always look for CHEAP ways of filling the cockpit. Most likely one of the bean counters that presents spreadsheets to the CEO has shown him how they can crew the airplanes for less money and is trying to introduce this “low Cost” idea. No offence to the low time pilots out there but Qatar Airways is trying to portray a “5 Star Airline” in the “Major Airline World” and this sort of hiring and way of doing business is a Charter outfit, new startup, penny pinching, fly by night, low cost, way of doing business and not that of a Major Airline in the World that is looking for Global Recognition as such.Yes, I do agree that you have to start somewhere and it is certainly not your fault that QR is leaning towards these measures of filling the seats.

Global nomad wrote, “Line up here to sell your profession.” Well guess what? This profession has been sold over and over again and is getting cheaper and cheaper for the employer and more expensive for the employee. Just remember that when you lower the bar on the this profession, it is very hard to get it back up. (the bar seems to be heading the wrong way faster and faster these days.)

I think that the hiring for this CADET program will be very political, DID I SAY “VERY POLITICAL” and you will be a VERY, DID I SAY “VERY” lucky guy/gal to get in just on your own merits with no “INSIDER PULL.” But please try and give it a shot. As a pilot it is your lucky day to get on this way with a major airline in the world but for those of us that are here already it does raise a question as to why Qatar Airways are going about hiring their pilots like this? Don’t get me wrong on this thread thinking I am saying to you not to take the chance and try to get on with a major airline and build your hours and run, DID I SAY “RUN!!!!” after you can stand on your own two feet and grab the aviation world by the B-LLS!!!!..


Just a quick reminder that is not tied to this post but a good thing to always keep in your heart and mind. “Caution every move in this small aviation world good or bad that you do. It will do a full circle one day and help you or hinder you later in your aviation life.” I have seen it happen to so many people in the good way as well as the bad way.

HM:ok:

I recieved a reply via email from them saying my'' application is being processed'', it's a signed letter which they scanned, any of you guy's reveive similiar letter?

What is the life style like in Qatar?

Thanks:ok:

Hello,
I guess we all received the same letter.

A friend of mine received a negative response 1 week ago but he was above 29 years old. I have 2 friends also rated on the A320 and below 29 years old and we received this letter but no news yet.

Good luck!

Same to you!:ok:

Hello,

I need to know when I can apply to Qatar.
Is it too late ??

I have still not finished my pilot formation
(I have just the ATPL and I started the CPL) and I will have 29 very soon, in September in fact.

So I could contract a debt in order to accelerate my pilot formation and finish it in March.

Then I could send my application before September.

But will they really accept my application if I send it in April.

Thanks for your precious answers.

Best Regards,
Mehdi

Guys, I have been turned down .by QR ..ha ha ha ha ha ha ha......

I got everything and more, but I am
toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo old 32 yrs!!!

hahahahahahahaha


hahahahahahahahahahahaha

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

............................................................

It's been 2 weeks today. Anyone got some good news?

Ciao

Hi guys,

I have just been to see the man incharge of QR second officer scheme, and I tell you he is as sharp as a knife. He told me that even if someone has an ATPL and few hours or even 1000s of hours on turbo-prop he will not be considered ! ! ! if he has no high hours on the jet.

They have lowered the age cut-of ban to 27 rather than the advertised of 28!!! so even if you just turned 28 yrs old all I can say is sorry mate. tooo close yet tooo far.......


no winning with airlines.....



Good luck to all of you .

Do you have an idea when they will give the response, no news yet. Do you think that my candidature will not be considered (23 years old and EA32 rating) because I don't have jet time?

So if I get it right, they only wanna see a lot of jet hours. Or else you're not considered...:hmm:

I am not sure that you need high hours on jet to be considered for the S/O scheme........they put 2 ads on their website, 1 for S/O and the other one for qualified pilots with jet experience....

A guy with jet time won't apply for S/O i guess.

That's exactly what I thought. They had 2 kind of vacancies, both for SO's and FO's (experienced). But this is a thread about the cadet pilot/ second officer scheme, so I thought superman was referring to this option. In fact, that's what he says:

Let's hope that's not the case. Time will tell.

Ciao

Guys this is not AA or DL!!
 

Dear Friends,

Stop thinking for god sake.

QR is not a serious company. And is far from being.

"Money" (a lot) doesn't mean that the company is a great one.

Basically, this selection process will be taken as the chance for everyone with somebody "inside" to get on.

Outsiders, if you have great numbers of Jet and ATP, may be....

The selection as everything over ther will not be serious.

Sorry to be kind of cruel, but is a fact that you're not taking into consideration.

Cheers!!,


:hmm:

What is a serious company for you?

What is your background, are you flying for QR?

Cheers

QR is not serious ...
 

Dear FAB,

How's that?

The only change of every week's requirements makes them not to be serious either responsible at all...

They do play with the hopes of thousends...

If you want to get some more info about QR just get into the forums, and you will see, what is going on there...

I can't tell you that everything they say there is truth, but i've been in there and i can tell you it happens...

If you want I can give you around 50 reasons about it.

And I repeat, THEY SHOULDN'T PLAY WITH WORLDWIDE HOPES if they are not SURE WHAT THEY WANT!....

Cheers,



:suspect:

This is the deal, the cut off age for the SO scheme, has gone down to only 27yrs old and they have had another meeting yesterday to see what other requirments they need to really narrow the selection process. At the moment they are given priority to educated people with degrees, so if you hold an excellent flying record it is useless coz you do not have a university degree...hahahahahahaha...it is true.

anyways logic defies me sometimes, ONE WAY to the right means the other way not right,,,right?

good luck to all those people out there waiting for their break with QR. It is an excellent airline to work for <true>

Let us hope that QR is not putting people hopes high as it has been previously mentioned. I dont think so, they really want pilots " educated with a BSc or a MSc"

P.S. good flying skills not necessary"

Hello,
Could you please tell us how you can obtain all these informations?
You said it is an excellent airline to work for......have you ever been working for QR? If yes why did you apply for the S/O scheme? If you know them so why they refused your application?
What is you ineterest?

The University degree......of course everybody knows that you have to be an engineer to fly an airbus...ahah, seriously, don't you think they will give priority to qualified guys if they really need pilots?

heu, what is your background?

Cheers

How is it superman 32 that you are the only one who seems to know anything about this "program"? I must admit, I know nobody at QR, but you seem to know much, or at least say you do. The other Qatari pilots on this board seem silent on the matter regarding SO's. I must admit, I myself am curious as to what the job description will be as QR do not fly Ultra Long Hull flights as of yet.

Good luck to those who applied. It sound as though it could be a possible way to land that slippery first job. Though it is intersting that they have not responded to anyone yet.

i also want more information if anybody has any. i have heard nothing other than the first email. has anybody heard anything, information on any possible selectees for the inerviews. is what superman says factual, or guesses. fairly odd that no person has any information on this. who knows what they are acutually looking for. best of luck to us all if this is a genuine oppurtunity.

No news.....good news ;-)

Gina35, where are U in Canada?

Cheers

The only thing I know is that 2 friends have already received a negative response, one had Turbine time and the other Jet time.
2 other friends and I qualified on the A320 are still waiting for the response since the letter...
I hope they will tell soon....

The only thing I know is that 2 friends have already received a negative response, one had Turbine time and the other Jet time.
2 other friends and I qualified on the A320 are still waiting for the response since the letter...
I hope they will tell soon....

hello FAB.

i'm from B.C., but i live in Ontario.

why did your friends get rejected especially with turbine hours. too old?

One is 32 and the other 26.

I really wonder when they will give us the response, I obtained the A320 rating (in Vancouver) 3 months ago and I am still looking for a job. As I am 23, I applied for this S/O scheme 1 month ago and also for the qualified pilot ad, no news since that standart letter.
I know that a lot of pilots applied for this position and it should take a long time for QR to choose the candidates.

Do you know how many pilots they need?

Fab

I hear they are only looking for 12 people. Which means very very competitive. I also hear they recieved thousands of resumes, for only 12 positions.:rolleyes:

QR needs +200 pilots next year only to cater for the expansion planned.

Initially this ab initio pilot project started with 6-10 spots available. The amount of applications however was huge! I believe over 15 times more applications came in!

That is why they are looking now for a way to do the selection process. When these initial guys/girls will be flying and all went well then they will probably hire more ab initios.

SO does not mean you are a relief pilot on ultra long haul!

SO is an F/O in training. You will be flying on A300/A320. First you will fly with a fully qualified FO as cover for a certain number of sectors, untill the training dept is convinced you can handle all the failures.
Then you will fly again a certain amount of sectors ( +/_ 6 months) as an S/O with line training captains. After a line check you will be a FO.

So nothing to do with relief pilot like Cathay Pacific for example. You DO fly as SO. Only difference is the salary.

IN QR the in flight relief pilots are F/Os on the A330 with 1 year on the fleet and min 2500Hrs.

Good luck

PS: SO sheme does NOT require high jet hours!!!!! What would be the purpose for that? Min req as in advertisment, preferably with higher education ( why, only HE knows...)

Qatari515,

Could you please check your PM's sir.

Cheers

Studi....

I hate to disapoint you but I think you are dreaming a bit here....

Managment positions are given to qatari or to very few expats with large experience....

The reason why as an SO they ask some sort of an education is that they want some sort of a level ...

Oh I think I know what I am talking about...... the SO scheme is good but only for those who hold a degree in nuclear physics.

There has been a change in the requirements. It is now an age limit of 27 yrs old.

As with many airlines...particularly those who hire non-jet experienced pilots...the degree demonstrates your ability to LEARN....:zzz:

...and, keep your mouth firmly shut, and don't argue.

The road to success for junior pilots.
Always has been, always will be.

in my opinion having a degree is not as necessary as your skills and ability to be able to handle a multi-function job such as a pilot. Do you know that driving a car requires more skill than flying an aircraft? yet uneducated people drive cars. At the end of the day it is only a trasnportaion mode just like a train driver, or a car driver.

With the advances in technology flying has become on of the easiest jobs one can do. The automation has been designed to put the pilot out of the cockpit.

Sure having a degree represents one's learning curve, but everything in life from the simplist action to the more advanced all require a super learning curve. Not all human beings make good pilots in term of professionalism and not all human beings make good car drivers due to thier eye-hand co-cordination.

It is all about ABILITY and the expeditious manner about which one can act in the event of an ensuing accident, armed with laid down SOPs and some common sense.

I know a lot of people I met with high degrees in both the arts and science, yet their natural ability of flying an aircraft is zero.

Having a degree is only to make life difficult for others, who have decided to persue the love of their life i.e. FLYING when they have finished their High school.

P.S. I know of someone who is now a captain on the B747-400 with BA, and his previous job was a MILK MAN. They have tagged him the " Flying Milk man"

Superman 32,

With regrads to your previous posts i have found your comments for the QR S/O scheme to be irrelevant.

You have mentioned that QR have required a high amount of jet hours in order to be concidered for the SO scheme, which is incorrect.

You also mentioned that QR would accept candidates with poor flying ability as long as they have a degree, I can ensure you that QR will choose their candidates from selected flying schools.
i.e (BAE SYSTEMS/JEREZ, Oxford and others.)

By the way flying a fast jet airplane is not like driving a car, and the reason for the automation to reduce pilot fatigue and to reduce human error, not to put the pilot out of the cockpit as you mentioned.

Good luck to all those waiting for a reply


ps most of the successfull candidates will fly the A319/A320/A321 and few will fly A300-622R.


:ok: