To the EK chiefs reading pprune.....
 

So there are not enough ASR’s, VR’s, CSR’s and CHFR’s drippin’in? Well, why am I not surprised? Apparently our VPF and DVPFO will shortly address this issue.
If you read this, dear chief Indians, spare your effort. We would know perfectly well how to use these tools and to what benefit – we just don’t want to. The story about the B-skipper having used this tool correctly, but then being incorrectly (“locally”) shafted, is only too present.
Here’s a better address to work on, dear chiefs: EVPFO and P.
The use of internal reporting systems, it’s decline, refusal or propagation depends directly on corporate culture. Such culture is set up by and depends almost entirely on in house leaders. Therefore this lack or decline of communication “bottom up”, is a brutal mirror of poor leadership.
Any attempt to address this solely “top down” will fail and make it even worse. We first and foremost have to feel that our leaders want to change this blaming and @..covering culture. And by the way: Stick to what was on and promised (ie. productivity pay). Or nothing will change.
Up to you chief Indians to hold this mirror in front of the big chief Indians, or spare the ink. :cool:
china

View from the Date Palm
 

I get the feeling the blame game or cover my arse has all ready started.

Fairly obvious why we are not putting ASR's and CSR in given the on going company culture and some of the ludicrous responses we get.

The recent email from Long Range Eddy over the GCAA AIC on holding in Dubai or why the company got it correct and the CAA has it all wrong is further example.

And what purpose other than self promotion does the Fatigue and Sleep Deprivation Article serve in the recent November Fleet Facts.

Ask any one who has done the 4 sector night pattern followed by a Long Range flight.Rostering is and continues to be the issue on the Bus Fleet...Better still how about rostering the Author on this pairing a couple of times for Research Purposes .

The solution is to sort out these pairings rather than sending guys to the clinic for debriefing. More buck passing from the Top

Emirates staff suffer terribly from a lack of responsible management, particularly when faced with perceived problems with said staff members.

Sometimes you could be excused for thinking that there is some kind of bounty being offered by upper management to middle management for every employee that can be exposed, accused, framed, shafted, screwed, frightened off, or threatened. Got to keep the staff under control somehow.

The emphasys is on sometimes, but when it happens it is generally quite dramatic and it will be evident to all crew eventually just how poorly we can be treated within the company.
A major contributing factor is the fact that we are on our own with no recognizable support structure to ensure that proper investigations are carried out and proceedures followed. It does not have to be a union but there should be a panel/body of our peers who can add support for all of us if required. THe well over used line from your manager of you can count on me for myfull support just doesn't cut it. Most will drop you right in it if they have the slightest fear of any flow on recriminations.

The list of examples of poorly handled issues is extensive and covers all areas of flight ops and training. When any issue is refered to HR or management, the perception is that absolutely anything could happen, even if you are totally innocent of the alleged indescretion/crime/stuffup.

The resulting company culture is :- Accusation and punishment.
There is simply no in between process or transparency..

If you are lucky they will fire your ass, then you can go home and sue their ass and live comfortably ever after off the winnings.

The One With The Comical Facial Hair
 

Would that manager be the one who had to beg to pass his command upgrade assessment?

:}

Don't need a prof to tell me that.. I'm all the time drunk.. with hapiness that I an fly for this wonderful outfit!! (Or is it just drinking my misery away???)

MR8

Up to you chief Indians to hold this mirror in front of the big chief Indians, or spare the ink. :cool:
china[/quote]

While I must agree with most of your comments, I would prefer to write to the bosses directly; it could be more effective :ok:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlie Murdoch (Post 2973323)

Would that manager be the one who had to beg to pass his command upgrade assessment?

---

Holy cow!

I didn't know people needed this begging process :O

While I must agree with most of your comments, I would prefer to write to the bosses directly; it could be more effective :ok:


My guess is that you haven't been here very long.

Writing to EK management, in the hope of effecting positive change, is probably the most futile pursuit I can think of right now.


But by all means try your hardest.

V

P.S If you want evidence of this, log on to the crew portal and read the responses to the guys that have asked questions about transferring to the 777. I have rarely seen so much written that says so little (i'm assuming its from Mr Ed.)

You must be from Down Under, liking boomerangs ...........
I've done it once, a very unpleasant experience. EK only wants "top down" changes, adopting the Arab way of doing things. At first it's a easy way of managing, but very soon you're confronted with passive resistance. Nobody gives a damn, no more reports, your leading capacity runs through your hands like water. Then you might try pressure, but water is incompressible, like passive resistance. That has been proven over and over again. It's definitely more effective than standing ostensively in the way of some fat tank or dumb dictator.
Our leaders, especially AAR and TC, will never listen to you, you're way too low in the food chain. They need to suddenly realise that they have created a workforce that simply does as told, but does not think any inch further than "when is block on". They will only react if it hits the polls and the sooner it does, the better for us. Anyone working on days off, going into excessive overtime, going the extra mile for anything or anyone but for himself, is just emphasizing EK in believing they're doing it right.
Submitting more reports or writing to our bosses merely tells them you actually read their crap and you actually care.
I would care for the company, and finally for myself, if there would be a two way street, but the one in EK today looks about as intelligently built as the Al Barsha crossing to the Greens road. And there's about as little concern about both shortcomings among any of the respective bosses. :ugh:

Countless CSRs & genuine technical Qs, all of which have gone unanswered, give me little incentive if any to waste precious d/o time to write anything. However, having signed a voyage report in the wrong place then I'm guarenteed a response from them.

4.9% resignations, 86+ pilots, the year ending Nov, more resignations submitted to be included in next years figures and more to come; what more feedback do these idiots want before they actually see that the emperor has no cloths?

If TC wants 650 aircraft then he & AAR better start learning to fly because they will continue receiving more and more resignations (personal feedback forms) until the the aircraft get parked by the nice new terminal that they will no doubt take all the credit for building.

And as their current recruitment policy of picking the carcasses of failed airlines begins to fail to attract sufficient replacements for the experienced pilots they're losing, with any luck they could be looking for another job like most of us are doing now.

Not complaining... but I've been seriously tempted to sign the new look VR with my staff number, (and would anyone notice?) as my name appears nowhere else on the form.

Someone a lot more cynical than I am might be tempted to say that if anyone suspected they were something more than "just another number" in today's EK, the new nameless VR form proves otherwise.

Most (if not all the big shots in the Gulf carriers and elsewhere) read PPRuNe. PPRuNe is also read in many offices. Many people do not participate in order not to be “spotted” red-handed and prefer to do it elsewhere.
How many times did I see people’s screens with it on it? Given the subject, and cause there are some good ideas in PPRuNe sometimes, I wished many top guys use them to implement some new policies and procedures in order to improve quality life in the office and at home for the many guys and girls. I'm really talking about the big (£,€,$ and others) guys.
Shortly, you'll have PPRuNe in the cockpits and galleys.:cool:

I fly for NWA and all I can say is that ED is an arse and a back stabber. Be careful with that a-hole!

Specific ident removed. Welcome to the site Jam-Yo - I get the feeling you're going to be a veritable font of hot gen. But I like your style, sniping with a howitzer. :ok: 4HP

Thanks Jam-Yo, but we'd already figured him out. I believe he is already being sidelined judging from his recent communication attempts.

Mister Ed (Long Range Eddy)
 

Thanks Jam-Yo, your conclusions coincide with the general opinion here.

However, the profile you have described is the ideal profile for an EK Flight Ops. manager. The upper echelons don't want flight ops. managers compromising commercial decisions with pesky annoyances like regulations. Look how frangible the Flight Operations Manual has become under TCAS's reign, any time that a Captain makes a stand on an issue related to the FOM, TCAS is quite happy to issue a "dispensation" knowing full well that should something happen, the Captain would take full responsibility.

Seems that when TCAS did his cadet course, he was away the day that they did regulatory compliance.

Long Range Eddy is simply another in a long line of EK flight ops. management seat warmers.

:mad:

[quote=chinawladi;2975681]You must be from Down Under, liking boomerangs ...........

Noooo, I am not from that part of the world, Thank God !! :)

Our leaders, especially AAR and TC, will never listen to you, you're way too low in the food chain.

You should try the "lower" bosses next time, such as Mr. ED or TCAS. Those mentioned above, really, wouldn't give a damn to whatever you would say.

:)

Dear Ed and TCAS

[I]aimscabinet[I] says that if we write to you nicely you will turn this flight ops department around by:

1/ Returning to a fair and transparent seniority system.

2/ Binning the DEC program.

3/ Reinstating the previous productivity and credit system.

4/ Addressing roster issues, in particular the mix of long haul/short haul duties.

5/ Implementing a realistic payrise.

6/ That's it.

Do these things and your recruiting problems will be over.

You know it makes sense.

mtc.

Well said, Montecee.

Plus we want the jump seat back!

Oh, and a realistic pay rise in my books is between 50 - 70 %, dont waste our time with anything less!

Thats it, ''good night and good luck''

And Check Six!!:cool:

And to add my bit ...
Don't forget the outbases. And let's not again try to "nickle and dime" (ie:short change and insult) -the fortunate few able to hold those precious basings, with a "reduced" package for the "privaledge" of such basings. Remember, Dubai is a "world class" city in the likes of London, New York and Paris and with the cost of living the same, we shouldn't have less disposable income to re-establish ourselves in our prefered domicile. We promise to carry closer to "your" minimum fuel then, -operational considerations taken into account of course! FOM 11.1.1, -second bullet is the most relevent. Your book, not mine... and we'll save the sandwiches for the next crew if we don't eat them. :) + :ok:

The last time a colleague lodged an ASR he was summoned to the office to recieve an abusive and irrational hour long tirade by a meglomaniacal fleet manager where he was threatened with disciplinary action and demotion amongst other things. This "manager'' would be considered a joke outside of the UAE, however, wields power in the EK organistaion. Unfortunately, if you have an issue he's the sort of moron you have to deal with at EK.
Why would you submit an ASR ever again after that sort of response?
Better still, why would you work for these arseholes?

long range eddie says if you experience difficulty in reaching a crew scheduler to volunteer to fly open time, you should contact your fc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well me thinks that the lines are so busy by scheduling trying to crew the many open flights (sometimes two calls a day), that the only idiot among us can't get through to them ...........

Man, have you tried getting throught to ANY department in EK recently....Tried to call transport to find out why the car was 1 1/2 hours late... engaged, Crewing... answering machine, Payroll....answering machine, never will call you back, Accomodation.....well why even try! Call the Fleet manager!!!!!! like, that is harder than crewing.

It's not good enough to be on the phone trying to get some information from departments that are totally uncontactable, imagine if we were uncontactable while we were at work.....

Come on Ek do something about the contactability of people we need to call.:ugh:

Camel, are you talking about EGT???? What an :mad: :mad: :mad:

EGGW

phone calls from cewing!!
 

3 phone calls today from crewing:oh:

2 yesterday one at midday the other 430 AM on a day off a nice pleading message to answer! NO captains for a dxb nce rome milan rome dxb so a phone call at 430am for a 6am pick up on a day off !! is that clutching at straws!!:p

DO NOT answer your phones if you have a suspicion it is crewing 218 or 288 numbers treat with care!!Unless of course you want to earn 400 DHS instead of the longer term positive changes that might happen by not answering.:ugh:

:=

More than 18 flights tomorrow with out crew........ standby those phones!:eek:

Likewise, 4 bleedin' phone calls. What do they not understand about not wanting, wanting.

EEGW

To support the above statements, go look on Captains (all) open time flights and then look on FOs. Capts flights not crewed about 100 over next week and FOs about 10. About 45 Captains short at the moment and a whole bunch about to go in the new year, currently serving their 3 months.
Take it easy guys, that phone will remain hot for the forseeable future, whos helping who out here? :ugh:

HOWWWWwwww lucky they were the A380 is delayed, unbelievable. The lucky bucket is quickly running dry now and maybe deep pockets will help to fill it again and help get some more pilots here before we all decide it's just getting too much. A lot of airlines do days on layovers or E or W every other month. The charters work hard for a portion of the year over night, the low cost work multi-sectors. That makes us a bit of everything (except the long layovers or not mixing E and W). How talented we are to operate every aspect of global civil aviation and even though we fly to some well dangerous places, what real reward does one get? Well I think that the massive influx of pilots over the last 3 or so years will see a massive outflow as demand gets better elsewhere and at least 5 or 7 years have passed in EK to take yer cash.

More leaks than a cheese grater at sea, eh Baldrick:}

We are often reminded that the EK package is continually reviewed with regards to other airlines. We are told it is competitive and indeed this is probably true. The beancounters add it all up, see what everyone else is offering and present the data to management who then feel suitably comforted.

Perhaps then the ever increasing attrition rate and shortage of pilots with resultant fatigue and sickness leaves them somewhat confused when flights are not covered. When they are, it is not by goodwill as we are told, its simply because of personal circumstance leading to overtime, call out pay etc.

What the beancounters cannot put a value on is personal time and quality of life. These are being continually eroded with the result that people are either not prepared to put up with the loss unless financially compensated or under any circumstances.

Much of this is not even EK's fault. Dubai is simply not a good place to live anymore. Anyone considering the move would be well advised to spend a couple of days here in a hired car and experience this themselves. The roads are choked almost to the point of gridlock and highly dangerous as a result of speeding 4x4's or badly driven heavy vehicles. This makes every aspect of life from running errands to school runs nerve racking and tedious. Simple tasks have increased three fold in terms of time. General inefficiency often means certain trips must be repeated.

On top of this EK fills the remaining time off with their housework. Groundschool has been offloaded onto personal time via the internet. Company email has allowed every manager to invade personal time with a myriad of tasks for one to fulfil in ones own time. The FOM statements on ensuring one is suitably rested are simply a joke. Even trying to get hold of EK's own internal departments can take several hours of listening to menus, recorded messages and praying you will be phoned back. Good luck to the new joiner who simply wants to speak to someone in Accommodation, for instance.

Combine all this with a falling US dollar, rampant inflation, stealth taxes, pollution etc., to mention just a few, Dubai is decidedly unattractive. Every aspect of living in the city is laborious and frustrating.

Hence people move on, even for smaller packages, simply to retain sanity and some vestage of quality of life.

I say to the beancounters; forget competitive and start thinking in terms of exceptional - because for many of us that's what it will take to stay in this city much longer.

Brain Surgery
 

Critical Winge is correct....

Is there any wonder there are so may flights in open time after Long Range Edds email explaining why you will not get paid call out pay if you help the company out....

So in a nut shell if you decided to to the company a favour FLEET
now turn around and say we are doing you a favour by giving you back your day off so NO CALL OUT PAY
http://www.synergizedsolutions.com/s...rpointbutt.gif
Wonder what the official line will be on Xmas and New Years Day or will it be unscheduled maintanence with the parked planes...........

SIMPLE really.

DO NOT WORK ON A DAY OFF or ANSWER YOUR PHONES IN YOUR VALUABLE and LITTLE TME OFF THAT YOU HAVE. PAYMENT OR NOT. PERIOD. WE WILL ALL SUFFER IN THE LONG TERM!!!:= DO NOT VOLUNTEER FOR OPEN TIME. ALL MANAGEMENT DO IS TAKE THE PRIME TRIPS OUT OF THE SYSTEM TO MAKE IT LOOK ATTRACTIVE AND ASSIGN ALL THE CRAP TRIPS TO THE POINT WHERE THESE WILL BE ASSIGNED TO YOU EVEN TOP BID!!! WE GAIN NOTHING!!! THE COMPANY GAINS EVERYTHING. A BLOODY ONE WAY STREET!!

DO NOT DO IT GUYS FOR ALL OUR SAKES LONG TERM!!:= := :=

Stop Volunteering
 

The more we volunteer or accept to fly on our OFF DAYS the less chance we have of seeing any improvement on our pay and conditions.

I recently spoke to someone in crew control and this person told me that they have a monumentous task every day to crew flights. I then asked whether this had been brought up to senior management? Pretty obvious question, I know!
The answer from management is, we have enough Pilots. So there you have it!
For as long as we say YES the show continues. I personally answer the phone and simply say NO THANKS, I have other plans, irrespective of what the trip offer happens to be! And let's face it, neither the overtime pay nor the call out pay is worth anything to get excited about!!

If however we all stand together and simply say NO! We stand to achieve a lot more in the future.

Latest rumour has the hold pool down to 40 pilots ONLY. Interesting times!

Check Six:cool:

QUOTE:

Latest rumour has the hold pool down to 40 pilots ONLY. Interesting times!


what does it mean?

Check six,

Good idea, stand together....., but if you are proposing that, then you would have to agree we have to stand together on many more things...

..like DECs, seniority, upgrades, etc....

I don't see the difference between flying on days off, accelerated commands, accepting a DEC position, by-passing your peers, etc... in principle it is all the same...

Right, didn't think so...

My eyes are starting to water... onions have that effect on a lot of people in the Sandpit.

All calling out "stand together" should ask around and ask what happened last time management even imagined some pilots were planning such a course of action.

Any such people wouuld be well advised to be very careful what they say on the phone.



Not kidding.

Actually I heard from a reliable source that the number was 20, what it means AFAIK, is that there is only that number of suitably qualified candidates available for interview, among the thousands of applicants waiting to get in. Ho Hum, we'll just have to drop our standards even more. Just dying to see what spin management put on that one :\

Stand Together
 

Requesting the pilot group to do this is absolutely pointless. It is not as if management can be informed that pilots will be working to rule!
Accept that we are all mercenaries here and everyone is entitled to do what they believe is best for them and or their families.

It will always be that some are prepared to stand their ground and some aren't. Dont judge those that aren't prepared to do what you may percieve to be the right thing.

As it happens, i believe that the way things are heading, it wont take any effort on our part to achieve the aim. The company is doing it all on its own.

I think the greatest thing we have done as a group is bring the facts to this forum. Whilst there is, and always will be, differences of opinions on what the facts are, it cannot be denied that anyone looking at Emirates today is far better informed than say 5 years ago. I think that has a great deal to do with the alleged shrinking pool of applications. And in the end, that is the only thing that will impact the managements thinking on how they should treat us.

V

Southflyer, pretty much it.

Been in this industry 20 years and have never seen threatening to not work days off, taking more fuel to piss the company off, going sick, saying "I'm not going to answer the phone", bla bla bla, ever achieve anything other than to have a few guys get nailed for obstructive behaviour.

This will run a natural course regardless of whether some do or don't go to work on days off, eventually there will be no crew left to legally call for flights.

I wait with anticipation what will happen when the transfers to the 777 take place, pandora has her hand on the box lid.

I assure you southflyer that "checksix" is as straight as they get, and he would not have any second thoughts to stand strong on all the issues you have brought up.

As a general rule though, it is allot easier to move on and do your own thing, than to change the situation you are in, because uniting together is as likely to happen as snow in Dubai (Outside the Emirates Mall).

EK has a diverse group of pilots, with only one thing in common (Money and Career, thus we are all looking out for number 1, (from Ed, to TCAS, to you and me.)

We do it on a different level, Ops management do not care about the pilots, the TREs do not care about the TRIs, the TRIs do not care about the LTCs, the LTCs, do not care about the Captains, the Captains do not care about the FOs, and on and on.

This is not a society based on values, and principles. It is a basic money, and fun culture. Those of us who want to stay in Dubai need to accept it, and those of us who can not accept it need to move on, or be miserable.

What is acceptable to you , might not be to me and vice versa. We do not stay in Dubai because we like it, but because we want it. Deep down we do not mind the abuse because we get something else in return.

Those who have done some soul searching have packed their bags and moved on. Those who have not, stick it out either in a happy oblivion, or in a miserable state of understanding.

Dubai is exactly what it used to be 20 and 30 years ago. It has not changed. Dubai has now become unbearable to us further up the food chain, and not only for the less fortunate from the sub continent and other regions doing the menial jobs. It was never a nice place unless you were one of the privileged. We are not part of that group any more I am afraid.

Our masters see us as workers, just like those building their palms, and worlds, and buildings etc. People with a lot less skill and education are building high rises, shopping centres and fun parks. Why do you think that they should care about those flying their shiny airplanes?

They do not care about any of us here, and what we want, they only care about what they want.

We too, do not care about anything else but what is good for us personally. It is a vicious cycle and the sooner we recognise it, the sooner we can do something about it; leave for a more normal life, stay and be more caring to each other, or stay trapped in "the I wish I could go but I cannot because...."
Things will not improve because we all see this place as a temporary fix to what we want, and our masters see us as a temporary fix to what the need as well. In every industry, the temp guys never get anything improved....

Regards
Cpt K:) :)

Hey Southflyer, you dont know me from a bar of soap, nor do you know what is important to me! So keep your personal attacks to yourself or to someone who will take the bait!

I agree with the general consensus above, that the company has primarily done this to themselves. But also a word of gratitude to those colleagues who voted with their feet and actually left the company. In the past I did the same, along with many other colleagues in a different life. Unfortunately (Hind sight is always 20/20) I left to come to this place!

I have 18 more months for our eldest daughter to complete school. And unless they come up with something spectacular (which I doubt) we will leave this place and never look back.

Check Six:cool: