Ek Package increase
 

What happened to "Don't resign, wait until October?"

Ho Hum ho hum ho hum.....................

Under review till January?

I think the "Don't go until October" was more of a plea than a promise of better things to come!

In all fairness though, they didn't say which October.:(

It ain't goin to happen, not now nor in the future.

Keep discovering. :E

Sorry to not dissappoint you Earl you are right...
All 330/340 captains have been offered 777 commands , but f/os cannot do a transition upgrade .
Face it f/o is nothing more then a housemaid for a Captain .
:mad:

Get out while you can there is plenty of jobs now , dont hang around waiting for a miracle or youll still be here in 20 years waiting .......and still could be an F/O , it doesnt matter if you have more hours then most of the captains , fly well , fly bad , just dont give up a command to come here ................

Apparently there was a lot of EK drivers at the thomson fly open day ........ good luck fellas.........

Maybe the reason Airbus Captains have been offered Boeing transitions is to make space for Airbus F/Os to upgrade on the Airbus.
This would keep the upgrades internal rather than employing more DECs.

It really is quite unbelievable.

You’re an expanding airline, and require flexibility, remember that word TCAS and the buffoons in crew planning use it all the time. So the first thing we shall do to give us wider flexibility during the expansion.

1. Lets increase the command hours from 4500 to 6000, a step but I have not quite screwed myself yet. I could have looked at pilots individually realized that cadets need sectors not cruise hours but that would be too hard.

2. Lets stop the practice of Accelerated upgrades and take on new captains from outside and give them full transitions if needed. That should stop experienced guys applying quickly.

3. Just to put myself really in the corner I better also stop transition upgrades, so I can’t have the Flexibility of moving guys between fleets.

4. Just in case better raise the hours for co-pilots applying to 4000 so I can get even fewer people to apply because with 4000 hours they already have a command but wont qualify for command on points 1 to 3 so wont turn up for the course.

5. Well I better tell the guys here if they don’t like it to F off. Good they are going in droves so I really have screwed myself now.

6. No, still a fraction of space for maneuver so I had better sack most of the Training Captains and examiners just in case and take six months to get them to reapply for the jobs again.

Yep that’s it, I have legislated all my FLEXABILITY away and everything is well and truly screwed. Aren’t I a good manager, I said nothing while it was all going on and took my bonus. So Global Nomad what have you got to say to the above.

If I missed anything to the treatise in incompetence please feel free to add.

That is so fuken funny...........................flybystring

:E

Fly By String

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Another point you might have metioned is "If you don't like it, LEAVE!" You touched on it I think but it needed highlighted. Also "You are lucky to have a job." What managers EK has, right Office Boy, I mean Global Nomad.

LHR Rain, a bit of 'kin respect there, GN is now a VP and deserves our undying admiration. After all JH and he saved the company a fortune with their credit hour scam.
He is one of the reasons why Flight Ops is so efficient this year, :ok:

......In the meantime, we await Nobal Gonad's appearance. :{ :{

Sounds like we're going to see ALOT of glass made real soon over there because of the nuclear meltdown that is about to happen at EK....Good luck lads....Management run amuck again, what a shame :(

You know, I could have sworn that Global Nomad was a line captain from the Boeing fleet. I think that other fella you are refering to is hanging out at www.beancounterswhohatepilots.com.

Don

Well at least on the rumour buster it is clear now that we will not be getting another increase for this year. Thanks to the airbus fleet manager for the clarification, for those of you that still had any dought about if it was coming or not. It is to bad because it stops all the good rumours about when the increase would come. The last one that made me laugh, was the one about the 20% on the 25th for the 20 years of the airline. It is just too bad because it was realy funny actualy seing grown up men believing in Santa Claus... The other thing that has also been cleared to the trainers at least is the fact that they will not upgrade 140+ guys on the airbus fleet between now and end of 2006, but instead around 75 guys. (Even on the crew portal it says clearly that the 140+ can change for operational reasons...) The request for fleet transfers on to the boeing fleet that we captains got, in imho, is just a cover up ploy to say to the fo's "that hey we asked internaly for help, but your airbus captains did not want to help out so we are going to hire DECs. Not our fault, blame your airbus captains," like I would volunteer to go fly even further and for more days away than what I do now.... Nobody is going to go back to the 777 not even the guys who came over from it, as their lifestyle is much better on the airbus fleet. Just wait and see an advert in flight in the next couple of months for more DECs, and maybe they will pay them more than what we get as it makes sense... Another management achievement for your list flybystring...

Earl mate,

Where does it say anywhere that to drive the 380 you need to be on the current bus?The chance to go to the 777 is to free up space on 330 for upgrades I guess?

There will no doubt be a "cost neutral" solution to transition from 777 to 380 if you are deemed suitable it is in the companys interest and the rules will change accordingly.

Having just done a trip with 4 from 8 pilots on the rotation removed from their roster to crew the pattern I for one am not certain the required standard of pilots will be in EK if the present self destruct method of man management path continues.

Is it true the 2nd JFK is delayed,with Hamburg due lack of crew?

Not knowing but Im not sure we have enough pilots at the moment to do the job yet alone expand yet further.



QB:ok: :ok:

Hasn't a lot of bitching and moaning been from the 'Airbus' guys due to you all working your nuts off. Now you're posting that life on the bus is sweet and 777 is to be avoided at all costs. :confused:

BYMONEK,

No, that was one person's opinion, not the majority's. But who would want to jump from one fleet to the other knowing that

a. The first B777-300ERs have no crew rest facilities (EK requested that the standard fit be modified to exclude the rest area)

b. That the expansion over the next few years is on the Boeing fleet. Having experienced four years of turmoil as the Airbus fleet grew, why volunteer for yet more?

c. That the possibility of flying the A380 would be in the very distant future.

d. That very few carriers worldwide, other than US majors and flag carriers, fly the Boeing B777, thus limiting future job opportunities.

It may offer some people an opprotunity to get time in other destinations that the 'Bus does not fly to, Brisbane for example, but then destination equipment changes are very common so changing fleet just because you could get to Brissie would be foolish in the least.

Quod Boy,

There is no published Fleet Transfer Policy for prospective applicants for the A380. However, there is a policy that was adopted when the A340 was introduced and that stated that you needed a year's experience on the light twin first. It therefore logically follows that the A380 will require at least a modicum of Airbus philosophy knowledge....

Secure ID,

Ok,point taken in that case then we can expect all the 777 old guard across to the bus prior to 380 arrival in oreder to get th2 12 months on type in?

If so,why are they not here with less than 2 years to go?

I shall venture to suggest a "cost neutral" solution involving seniority and a "waiver" on existing policy may well occur in senirity numbers 1-100.

IMHO of course,keep discovering.Back from pub.
QB:cool:

Secure,

The B777 do have crew rest facilities. The first 10 will not have them and the rest will. The ones with the rest facilities will be the ones going to JFK. The forward rest will not be put in as the weight penalty is one tonne plus. The B777-200LR will comew with the forward rest facility as standard. Having also seen the mock ups of both rest areas it is by far better than the airbus mickey mouse affair.

With regard to the transfer to the Boeing I think it will free up positions for the F/O's on the airbus. Not many places in the world to have a 330/340 and B777 on your licence.

As far as package increase goes - Why do people insist on thinking that every time there is an announcement, a payrise is in the offing. No company will do this. The budget has been set for this financial year and nothing will move 'till April/May. All that happens is people get their hopes up and become disappointed when it doesnt happen. It would be nice to think that we would have a 20% payrise. That is not going to happen and I think the majority know that.

The Airbus guys who have had the offer of a change to the Boeing. Are these the same guys who are working their arses off. This is therefore your chance to change the lifestyle you hate and give your F/O colleagues a chance of a command.

Are you guys kidding!!

of course i would go to the Boeing! 95 hours of 345 am indias,osakas,shanghais,shanghais,osakas,shanghais,osakas,os akas,shanghais,new york,osakas,shanghais,sydney,shanghais,shanghais,osakas,osak as,osakas,shanghais,shanghais,sydney,osakas,osakas,osakas,ne wyork,shangais,osakas,indias,indias,indias >>>>>>>>>>> the end is not in sight!!

But this idea of sending Airbus pilots to the boeing,well what can i say,another permutation of an equation to do everything needed to not have to dig into those bloody deep pockets and PAY UP!!

The company believes that by filling the shortfall of captains on the EXPANDING Boeing fleet they will have more chance of finding A330 rated DECs than B777 DECs therefore solving TWO problems at once BUT how does that now position the Boeing FOs for that matter Airbus FOs?

And how many Cathay 330/340 pilots do you think are close to 55 and have been stung by the property bust just a waitn to get there hands on an Emirates aircraft!! Boyo oh boy!!

This is just yet another reshuffle and policy change to fit the everchanging market environment so as NOT to pay up!!

Cold,calculating,cruel BUT this is MODERN business practices at there finest!! Much much more to come!!

oh and one final thought for all those wishing for the big inevitable PAY RISE (me included) it aint gunna happen!!

Oh and one more thought, here we have an expanding airline pushing the biggest and best IMAGE to the world an airline that needs to be doing its Damndest to attract and retain the best pilots but at same the time when they can least afford to do it they F$%K with us and our terms and conditions WHAT do you think it will be like when they finally stop growing and now have stable numbers. You better be resolute enough then to protect what you have because broadsides will become a common occurrence!!

Hold on to your hats!! The storm is a coming!! :ok:

Hey Ringa,

Dont try to analyse why they are asking for airbus to swap to boeing. If it means you will get a rest and a better lifestlye then take it.

There are delays in the arrival of the Boeings so it means I believe that 5 will come in November. They will need people to fly them.

Simple as that. Take the offer. By the sounds of the airbus guys as a whole, you could all do with a rest. Question is can it get any worse (probably !!!)

Uplink,

None of the current B777s have crew rest facilities other than a 1st class seat. I also said that the first few B777-3000ERs do not have the rest area, for the reasons that you mentioned.

As for having the A330/340 and B777 on your licence, wouldn't that be great on a FAA or JAA ATPL? On a UAE ATPL? Different story...

Well another compound of EK pilots have been told that the rent on their Villas is too expensive, and that they are to move (no choice of Villas given), take the allowance or pay the difference. Perhaps this is the package change that was rumoured to happen!

Always discovering.
Don

Yep,

wait till october and you will definately move out
without regrets???? HAAAAHAAAA:E

Don,

Which compound and what is the rental increase and difference that the guys have to pay?

But how can they get away with it? the website clearly states:

Aaah yes, now I see. They will supply you fully furnished accommodation but can move you at the drop of a hat...

Whats the difference between a DEC with 1 years service moving from Airbus to Boeing , and an f/o with 2 plus years in Ek , lots of Boeing time , including command time , enough for Accelerated with good sim scores ..
Why cant they do transition upgrades its the last link in the chain..........:{

SecurID,

The Villas are within Internet city. The rent went up 20%, its now around AED15000 above the EK limit, so the difference is around AED1300 per month. Some of the fellas had been there for 9years, some for a few months. Luckily it comes 12 months after the last pay cut, so at least there is some consistency.

Don

Scooter the difference is that senior management would have to admit they introduced yet another policy for which the consequences were never considered. Thus an Arabic Solution to an Arabic problem, Save Face !

Can you rememeber the FCI explaining the augmented hours fiasco, no it was never issued because they screwed up operated completely outside the AOC and without the approval of all the countries they operated into.

FACE SAVING RULES THE ROOST, and they have the gall to talk about a safety culture !

What about payrise in EK???
 

Guys, look at this and then you are welcome to comment...

http://www.flightinternational.com/A...pay+rises.html

Time to wake up...

I don't think EK management will shiver in their boots :}

Even with MAS drivers getting the mentioned pay rise, it doesn't even come close to what the Mid East Carriers are offering.Rumour has it that the new ED of MAS (who's a highly regarded beancounter) held back the new deal so he can compare to what the market pays........Let's just say that he didn't need all his accounting skills to know that MAS had a sweet deal......& promptly signed off the deal :E

When rent prices fall , as they inevitably will , is it likely that the

EK accomo will move those affected back into their original or

equivalent accomodation ? . We are talking pennies here, the

solution is that the company should bite the bullet for a

year or so and then sharpen up their negotiating skills .

The question is really, who owns the villas ? , perhaps the usual

money go round is at play .

Terrible this has happened again. One of the guys has just been there for 10 months and feared this would happen. After assurances from accommodation he would be secure he moved to the place they recommended. After paying a load of cash out of his own pocket after his first forced move. Now what is to happen? Once again more money to dish out and the terrible stress of dealing with the accommodation department. Not to mention the usual unrest and disruption to the family. Most don’t give it a second thought as they have not been affected. However I sense that this problem will escalate and cause grief to many. The dreamers think that we have a chance of a payrise.This will never happen. With the spiralling rents in Dubai which will completely gobble up any part of the budget allocated to the pilots package for an increment or pay increase. Emirates will simply refuse to pay any more rent and continually move you to cheaper accommodation at your own cost. They may give a paltry increase in the rental allowance at the next review which will benefit the 7-10 % of the guys living in their own houses however for the rest it is next to useless. I don’t need to keep discovering I have known this painful reality for to long.

Trimotor,

At the risk of sounding pedantic, I think they have correctly priced themselves in the market.

It is an unfortunate fact that at the moment, rents are at a stratospheric high and landlords are cashing in. That is hardly the fault of Emirates, although I do believe they are under an obligation to keep pace with market trends.

It is doubtful that the market can sustain - in the event that it doesn't, would you be happy with a decrease in accommodation allowance?

Journeyman,

at the risk of sounding insincere, yes I would have been happy to take a cut in the allowance because I never have taken it in the first place. I fully agree with your view that the company has to the obligation to provide adequate accommodation for ALL its pilots. By lowering the the standards of the accommodation sufficiently the company lures people into taking the allowance, thereby saving money while at the same time washing their hands of any responsibility. The expatriates who are renting privately are asked to pay for the greed of the local landlords while at the same time the company is unwilling to do so, something does not compute here...

If i need a shipping container it goes straight to home.
The only answer is offshore bases ,or more pilots will leave .
So many reasons not to stay..................:ok:

Has any F/O got any reason to stay cause i cant think of any........

Hmmm, let me think..... The sun is shining!

Not so long ago some very senior pilots were told that their villas were too expensive, with the same options...

1. Stay and pay the difference
2. Move into other company accommodation
3. Take the allowance and move out.

One of the affected told them he was not moving at all.
When challenged by the cucumber brigade he advised that he would not incure any expense from one of their options offered, as each one would.

He also told them that any difference in the rent that they reckon is above their allocation estimates per year could be saved by him in one flight alone. (Not sure of the formula there)

Conversly he could match the same rent difference per annum on every flight he operated, and would.

That was the sealing argument. He stayed.

halas

Scooter

As you can't think of any, let me at least tell you the reasons I'M staying;

A reasonable starting salary net of tax around $5500 month. Those that say they can't manage then save the boat and brand new 4x4 until you've been here a few years.

Not having to wait too long for a Command anyway as it is still 'around' the 3 year mark. Yes, some have had to wait longer and the lack of transition upgrades policy is poor but people must be naive if they think it's their right at 3 years to the day to get the fourth stipe. ( That's when you order the boat!)

A provident fund that, although lacking in performance, will still give you the full balance of the fund instead of being tied to buying an annuity with current appalling rates. Just ask anyone who's joined BA on the new contract and ask them what can they expect on retirement!

Good standard of accommodation with all bills payed including any maintenance.

Flying new widebody aircraft that are well maintained. Not having to do manual loadsheets everywhere we go or the refuelling!

New and varied route structure that offers everything from a 35 min flight to 14 hours.

A bidding system that 'generally' allows you to choose what you want and gives you particular days off if that's your priority. At least on the Boeing anyway.

Leave system that is done at home on computer and can be confirmed within seconds.

Excellent staff travel that even allows you to turn up and go with e-ticket ( 2 weeks notice with my last outfit!). Good deals with almost every other airline going including business class travel for ALL the family on Lufthansa ( and EK if book Cat C firm)

Having a driver to pick you up and take you home after every flight. New Volvo's are nice.

Excellent training facilities especially the Pilot's lounge in the new Aviation building!

Getting to fly with a great bunch of guys. Very few left seat guys difficult to get on with. Operating in a professional yet relaxed environment on the Flight Deck.

And job security. Never had to face it? Lucky you. It's not pleasant facing redundancy, ask anyone who has. I don't wish to again, so here I am....................for now at least!

Oh, and as Secure ID said, the sun is shining. Unlike Quod Boy who's always off to the pub, i'm off to the beach. The pub is later!



:ok:

P.s If non of the above grabs you, time to order that container of yours.

hello guys.

can anybody tell me what kind of schools are there and the money they give is enough also is the bus included . thanx

Bymonek. Spoken like a true Boeing pilot!! Soon it will be your turn to fly 900 hours per year (though fortunately you will be spared the factoring that Airbus guys had to endure). Check back with us this time next year and we'll see if your outlook has changed!
I agree with your list of good points though. In isolation it makes the place look like some sort of Shangri-La! But Shangri-La it ain't!