Qr Dec Package
 

Any info regarding interview, package and bond for non fleet rated DECs at QR?
How their offering could compare to EK´s?
Thanks in advance.

Use the search feature, many posts about it here.

Cheers.
SA

Thanks, Stand!

I did it, but did not enlighten me enough as there was a said 'new package' offering at QR.
Not enough objective info on my search as well.

Check your PM!

SA

check out www.ppjn.com

both Captain and F/O packages are on there, however the F/O basic is 14000 QAR (it says 16000 on ppjn) otherwise it is accurate

A330 F/O's are flying about 85 hours a month and earning about 28000 QAR's inclusive a month. The new pay deal has made quite a difference especially if your flying 75 hours plus a month.

The airline is still short of crews on all fleets

AD

pay
 

what is the average capt salary take home in qatar?

Hope you fly better than you observe happie

Let’s look at some FACTS regarding working for QR and AAB, alias the ‘Poisoned Dwarf’.

Pay wise, there are no guaranteed minimum hours. So that 100/75QR per hour figure means a poor pay packet unless you are rostered for 70+ hours. Contrary to what you read here, many pilots are being rostered for 50 hours, not 70. If you are flying 320’s you might be rostered for 60+hrs block, but this means 150+ flight duty. 320 crews have few layovers, 330 and 300 crews are virtually not at home.
Then there’s the time you spend on duty travel, which must be in uniform, without being paid for it, together with the time you spend on standby, again without pay. And as for the overnight allowances, forget them. They are for meals only and cheaply calculated at that.

Start looking around Doha for a decent place for your family. You can’t buy, so you must rent. The maximum total package is 6,200QR with FO’s getting slightly less. Any decent place will cost you 7,500 (and increasing) and that’s unfurnished. Since QR allow you only economy checked baggage allowance when you join, you can bring 10 kg with you on the plane and then a mighty 150 kg by air freight separately. That’s one hell of a lot of personal effects to set up a new life! An unfurnished villa in Doha means TOTALLY unfurnished. You must set up everything, including air conditioning, cookers, etc. As an expat you have to pay for water and electricity which can be around 600 a month.

And then for the really good bit; nothing is allowed! However no Conditions of Service Booklet exists to tell you what is or isn’t allowed? AAB loves to know about everything and he checks the people who work for “him” on a regular basis during surprise visits to the airport or the check-in building. He freely admits to having spies everywhere to report you should you drink the orange juice or ask for a handful of nuts……..even if they’re being thrown out at the end of the flight! You are threatened with instant dismissal for such childish things as not wearing your hat in the bus. Cockpit crew cannot release the jumpseats to cabin crew as “they might distract them from their job”. And on it goes!

Staff Travel is a joke. 3 days to get a ticket. Cabin crew can only buy economy tickets on QR and WILL NOT be upgraded. As a result, if EY is full they are left behind unless some EY pax is upgraded to make room for them! Same goes for FO’s with business class to first. But the cabin crew are in the worst position anyhow. A lot of hard work, continuous pressure and fear of being terminated rules their daily lives. Management tries to hire as many people from poorer countries as possible, because they expect them to work and shut up. Lack of English and general understanding is quiet common. Knowledge is learned by heart, and repetition of the drills has to be exactly as it is written in the book.

Qualified First Officers are not being upgraded. Instead the company hires non rated captains as DEC. The goal posts for LHS training keep changing and when your time does come around, you are subjected to an interview to see whether you are suitable? One comment on your sim file and it’s the sin bin for two more checks. So a further12 months before another interview.

And then there’s rostering; what rostering? Rosters are regularly out a day before the beginning of the month. So-called computerised rosters which have one pilot on 50 hours and another on 90? Return to Doha from Colombo in the morning and leave that night for Manchester is an example of a typical ‘pairing’. Who cares? It’s ‘legal’.

Which brings up FTL’s? There are no relief qualified pilots, so a third pilot is sometimes included in the crew to ‘augment’ it. The crews do not rotate in the seats so one pilot just sits in the jumpseat like an observer, sometimes for eleven hours. This means at the end of the flight there are three exhausted pilots instead of just the two. Moreover it happens that the extra crew positions to do this duty (as a passenger, not being paid for it of course) and then returns on the jumpseat, or vice versa.

Overall the biggest problem in QR is that management does not value its people. Although QR is short of pilots and cabin crew, it does nothing to change the situation. AAB simply doesn’t care. Despite the bonds, etc., personnel continue to leave the company because they’re sick and tired of being exploited by the management and AAB’s stupid rules.

My God
 

Knotaloud man are you working for QR? or used to? as Flight Deck or Cabin Crew? I m merely interested to know just for the fact to get where this perspective is coming from? Your article seems to have a lot of annoying facts irrespective of your background with QR. Im not workig for them but I might be very soon and your article has made me very concerned. My main concern is, if all this is true, and its well know apparently and they must know it, how come the management is not concerned about such an unhealthy environment like the one you described? Simply that the big man does not care does not cut it for me, its never that simple.

Regarding the 320 rostering, do u happen to know the nature of their flying? thats to say where to and how many hours they fly a month ? what about layovers and night flights, how many do do you get on average if you r flying A320 for Qatar?

Thnks

Eagle,

notallowed may be a little angry, but I can't find much wrong with what he/she says.

GB

Why do you think QR have a permanent advertisement in Flight International for Pilots???????????????

Surely that should tell you all something:confused: :confused:

How desperate are you Guys??

Knotaloud,
that was a very very good post. You did miss out a few items but that would of made it a very long long post if you had to say all you wanted to say.

HM

I need info!!
 

Regarding the comments above, I am reluctant of considering working with QR; I wonder if anyone working there have any answers or comments to the following questions. :confused: Thank you.

How can you fly more than the allowed by the aviation authority in Qatar, there should be a maximum number of flight and duty hrs per month, no? Are there any rules concerning minimum rest hours?

Did you sign a contract with QR before you took the job? If so, does it specify the amount of money you get paid and what will be your duties?

What about an operations manual detailing the DH and STBY procedures is there something like this? Is there anything written on refering to the usage of crew uniform on duty?

Do you get a crew meal during flights?

Are there any written rules wrt to staff travel in your contract?

How about details on accommodation, does your contract mention anything about it or anything regarding the shipment of household effects to relocate to Qatar and back home? Did you talk about it during your interview? What was the reply from the company?

I am sure there is no perfect management in any company, not just QR, but how can you be exploited if you have a contract that lays out the working/living conditions? I am sure that if the contract is broken in some ways, you may have the grounds to file some kind of legal action, no? Has this happened? :confused:

Any information will be must appreciated, Thank you.


:ok:

Eagle. Flight Deck. Sorry, but he either does not care or chooses to maintain an environment of fear.

Oryx and Hajj. Thanks.

AM.
I didn’t say they break the Qatar rules, did I? I apologise if that’s how it came across. Unfortunately, the rules employed here allow for what I tried to describe.
Contract. What contract? The one we signed, or the one we work under? Anyone seen the new one?
The contract we signed does not allow for shipment of personal effects other than what I said in my original post. Unless you read this forum, you will only find out the real cost of accommodation when you get here. I can’t remember what was said at interview, if anything?
Staff Travel entitlements are mentioned in the contract, as are rules on DH and STBY in the ops manual. The ‘not allowed’ rules are mentioned nowhere!
Legal action? We’re in the Middle East and most of us are expat workers?
And, yes, they feed us.

Reply from Qatar if not rated?
 

Has any non airbus rated pilot ever received an answer from Qatar?

Above posts are shocking, can't believe Qatar management is getting away with this B.S.

Who the fu*k do they think they are???
:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

Interconti, ask Deske, he has the same qualification, and got hired recently...

Good post knotaloud...the company just doesn't care...we are replaceable .... to all joining f/o's....don't kid your self's guys no upgrade in more than a year ...nor genuine desire to upgrade from within...you will wear two bars like a cadet for 3 years....and there are TWO seniority lists one for CPT's one for F/O's ...if you ever get upgrade you go below the cpt who joined yesterday....housing will go up again since games are approaching....car accident rate extremly hi...nice weather (for 7-8 months) drinks at 5-6 hotels and liquer store..prices ok...sports yes....parties yes...company culture at work ... f/a's and many f/deck depressed and complaining....they couldn't even give us plastic cups in the building you had to wash one that has been used 1000 times.. but things are slowly getting looked at ..it will take time ...good luck to all new joiners

Thanks fellas.

This confirms what an Ansett F/A mate told me after leaving there.

Certainly not worth the time to file an update with them but it comes at an expense... your experiences, written above... and I thank you for that.

Keep the blue up, regardless.:ok:

Not Registered,

Are you telling me that the company has not had any upgrades from right seat over to the left seat in OVER 1 YEAR?

Did'nt know this was the case.

HM:ok:

Yep...no Ug's in more than a year in fact...many guys meet req's on all fleets however no official interview dates ....than you have to wait for one.. for months..then you have to pass one..and then after you pass one you have to wait for TRI's available..they are too busy with non-type DEC's and new hires anywayplus fleet expansion...so you are looking for 3+ years meaning probably close to 3,5-4 years if they decide on you , and if in the meantime you don't get s/b....happened to a guy just a day before he supposed to be sent to the new type conversion...good luck..they realy value us here..and they demand loyalty too..but don't care about providing one...everyone is replaceable...halas...keep the bright side up

I have heard about the two seniority list and to me that is a very huge "SLAP IN THE FACE" to the F/O's that have served the company and been on the property many years to then have to go junior to someone who leaves their previous company and comes to QR as a captain just because he flew 1000 hours on a medium sized jet. ( as they put it in the flight international advertisement)

i would imagine that some of these guys have no world wide experience and don't have the first idea of ETOPS, flying through time zones, glass cockpit or even FMS. Sure they get a 45 days in Toulouse France and are trained to pass the check ride and I am sure will do fine once on the line, don't get me wrong, But you know what, the first officer with the two cadet bars sitting in the right seat that has been with Qatar Airways for 2.5 to 5 years and has come from a job and been in the Qatar Airways job where he has flown all over the world and knows the middle east, Africa, Far East, Europe and Asia will baby sit this guy until he learns how to make a HF call for the first time to Mumbai or Antanarivo.

Seniority is everything to a pilot, He works hard to get over to the left seat and be a captain, this is basic 101 of being a pilot. You come to an airline for a career and to progress through the ranks and to climb to the top of " THE SENIORITY LADDER." some pilots left jobs to come to QR and join as a F/O so that they can progress and be a part of a great airline. At the interview they were told all sorts of different things that made them believe that "THIS IS THE PLACE" and now "THE GOAL POST" ( as knotaloud put it) have been moved and a new playing field is in place with different rules.


To see this Airline just bringing in pilots from other airlines and jumping the seniority list or have two seniority list is WRONG! ( in my eyes) I can see and feel the frustration of the first officers at QR and feel sorry for them.

Sure it is ok to bring in Direct entry captains in a airline that is growing rapidly and you need to fill the seats quickly. Yes, bring in someone with experience and put them in the left seat, but DON'T SLAP THE FACE of the First Officers that have given blood, sweat and tears and have been loyal to your company. WOW! that two seniority thing is BAD!............... Seniority should be "D.A.T.E O.F H.I.R.E" at the airline and when the first officer gets an upgrade (Inshallah) he would be senior for bidding vacation, upgrade to new fleet and also bidding for a monthly roster (if it ever comes)

I hate to go on but if you serve 5 years with QR and then "INSHALLAH" get an upgrade, the guy that joined a couple of days before you and was hired Direct left seat is Senior to you? Well lets do some math here. This guy finished flying school 5 years ago and was hired in an airline in his country the same day you joined QR. he flew 4 years as a F/O on a 737 or 727 at 1000 hrs a year ( 4000 hours). He then gets an upgrade to the left seat of the 737 or 727 for 1 year at 1000 hours in that year. So now he has 5000 hours and gets hired by QR and is senior to you who has been flying not only longer than him but flying longer at QR than he has flown his entire career..... ha ha ha ha ha. What a joke.......

As you put it in your closing line not registered, "things are slowly getting looked at" I hope for the sake of all at QR that the turtle will pick up some speed and get it all straight soon.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL F/O's at QR.

Since May 11, 04 Qatar placed SIX ad's in Flight Intl. looking for pilots.

Cathay places approx. ONE ad per year for the same amount of pilots.

Does that tell us something about working conditions???

Safari Goat,

Well Said.

The Seniority thing is not good here and we can only hope it will change.

I myself have never heard of such a thing but I am new to this Middle Eastern way of doing things.................

Spot on mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very good post...........

hajj Man:ok:

Well said Safari Goat. That is exactly whats happening at QR.
Currently there is a preference for hiring guys from subcontinent they hired dozens from medium sized jet DEC to A300 and roumours are some will come directly to A330.

No experience outside subcontinent, no world experience, no wide body, maybe never used an HF as you put it and some considerably less TT than many of the senior F/O's at QR.

Company F/O's are hired for a POSITION not as a PILOT but as an F/O, this is your designated post. No plans , intentions or willingness to promote from within only talks in the corridors, no written memo's or anything in writting for that matter hence no real policy.There was a memo several months ago regarding upgrades on A300/A320, A330 is off limits for ug's , but it has been swiftly removed after one week and guys were told that it was a MISTAKE !?!

Anyone of the street with nice log book and jet pic time and good conection regardless of the current "written" policy can get in and it is automatically ahead of F/O's Seniority List, that have been with the company for years. What a morale booster.

( btw has anyone actually seen or knows of any official seniority list? It has been covered in a veil of secrecy)

There were guys here that have been hired in the left seat, what Safari Goat said, with no glass or wide body experience, I guess good for them.

Many of our fellows will accept jobs like this but in the long run if the company doesn't value their loyal employees sooner or later it will backfire at all of our fellow pilots regardless of the seat they occupy.

It represents the attitude that you are not welcomed , just a necesity to run the business and noticed by the office only when you ask for orange juice, peanuts or cappucino. So much for the atmosphere here regardless of the seat of course.

QR recruitment
 

Does someone know if there are upgraded pilots at all for last few years?

Very Few upgrades m4141g,

All the direct hires are taking those jobs from the F/Os that have been here for 3 years and the strong rumour is that some guys are coming direct from 737 at Jet Airways in India direct to the A-330 left seat. Lucky guy ( or did you have a contact to help?)

Now this is starting to not only be a bad thing for the F/Os with the upgrade, now it is wrong towards the A-320 Captains and A-300 Captains that have serve time here also.

When you ask any one in the office about this the answer you get is " everyone will be on the A-330 soon. WHAT IS SOON? well lets see, Soon for 13 years period is 3 years, soon for 100 year period is 10 years, soon for 10 month period is 1 month. What scale are they using you wonder?

I guess it is "who you know" instead of the "what you know" these days and it appears that this has all come about with new folks being hired in the offices with friends from other parts of the world that they are helping out. I have nothing against helping your friends out at all, but don't do it at the expense of others that have been here waiting and want to progress.

I am not sure how life works these days and feel that maybe I have looked at Aviation in a wrong way for many a years.

What can we do? Well as always, lets just sit back and watch the events unfold.

HM:ok:

That's true QR is the only company in the world who does not bother to reply. At first I thought that's some kind of mail problem or I am only one who do not get an answer, but now I apprehend a whole situation. Adding to this I had an opportunity to meet one Qatary guy in Touluse, I decided not to apply. Not the pleasest chap he. When things begin so, the quickier to stop the better

QR DEC package, please!
 

Nothing about what originated this post so far...any help, pleae?

Fullforward
you asked for the QR package and ended up with a lot of other info.
Monthly package is as-
Basic- 20000 Qr
Housing 5000 Qr
Transport/utility/furnishing 1800 Qr
you get paid for kids education also not very sure but I think good enough for the place
Hourly rate of 100 Qr/hr. you can look at about 65-70 hrs.

Hajj Man - says Qr taking 737 DEC on 330 I dont think he has got it right lot of QR capts still waiting for their upgrade and many are local. There is no way a 737 capt can bypass the Senior Capts and go on 330 not till date atleast.

Safari Goat - thinks that F/O's will baby sit the Capt and teach him how to make a HF call. Dont if safari goat is a F/O himself and thought that making a HF call was such a difficult thing to do. Though I cant say much on Seniority it is a debateable isuue with many airlines all over the world.

Many other posts talk of DEC being taken into QR but the that is being done at all major airlines and QR is no different.

Belowclouds-you have a valid complain that they dont reply at QR and that can be very painful I feel they must atleast acknowledge recipt of an application but then even airlines like SIA dont reply if they dont consider a candidate suitable- but i guess there can be a better way to it.

"Many other posts talk of DEC being taken into QR but the that is being done at all major airlines and QR is no different."

ALL MAJOR AIRLINES! I'm off to Cathay Pacific or maybe British Airways or maybe Air France or............which one should I go to Mr Weatherman?

Also, this being a rumour forum remember, but I think Hajj is correct. According to the story going around, 737 DEC's are doing courses on the 330 as that is where the current shortfall lies.

Fullforward. Please refer to my post under "To QR/Qatar with wife and baby" for a realistic approximation of what you'll receive here.

Knot
 

Thanks, dear Knot!

Many things said here are unfortunately the truth.....

One thing false though:

DEC on 330 are all captains with widebody experience. No way 737!!!!

Still its very bad that they prefer DEC above there own crews, especially the 320 guys. They have frozen (again) the 320 pilots due to shortage!

With all due respect to the 300 people but I think its only fair that 320 pilots, whi have been flying their a***s off in the gulf and subcontinent, with only few layovers, should get a shot at the LH sectors.

QR is not as bad as people tend to believe here (personal opinion) but everything regarding transfers and upgrades is a BIG BIG BIG mess!

Two seniority lists, no policy, changing rules etc....Do not believe you will get a command three years after joining! BS!

The next months/years will be CRUCIAL for QR....and it will be either survival or total downfall! Safety is slowly but surely going down at the moment, morale is low, experienced crew is running away, indian maffia has total control in HR and flight ops,,there is a shortage of experienced crew ( tech crew and cabin) joining the company engineering is struggling to find qualified people etc etc etc...

I wish QR all the best but i sincerely hope nothing bad will happen.....IN SHA'ALLAH

Qatari515

The next months/years will be CRUCIAL for QR....and it will be either survival or total downfall! Safety is endangered at the moment, morale is low, experienced crew is running away, indian maffia has total control in HR and flight ops, engineering is struggling to find qualified people etc etc etc...

thats a big BIG issue then they should do something about it or wow wow i dont even want to think about it :\

WXman & Qatari515,
I think you need to do your homework a bit before you come to post anything here........Yes this is a rumour page but I spoke to some one that just came back from the A-330 course in Toulouse and he said a DEC is going through the A-330 program now.

when you go into the office next time to go to work, ask the question if anyone is in Touluose France right now from Jet airways going through the A-330 program?



Sorry to tell you this...

Good Luck.
HM

:ok:

Hey, there s so much BUZZ about Jet Air guys joining QR, where do they come from?? And are these the only ones joining QR nowadays!!! Every QR post talk about Jet guys, is there something more to them then others.... just wondering...
Cheers to the rest of em too...

Actually it is not right to pick on the Jet Airways guys coming to QR. But it does help when you have a contact in the hiring manager team to pull all your country men in and give them A-330 and A-300 Left Seat when all you have flown is a 737 locally in India.

We have other DEC coming form other airlines and some of them only flew RJ. ( some RJ outfit in Europe that shut down.)

It just is not right to treat the f/os that are here at QR now and have waiter for their turn to upgrade, were told when hired it would be a certain time frame and then "YOU CHANGE THE PLAYING FIELD ON THEM"

That is wrong,

Actually I think DEC is wrong also. I am from the old way of thinking that NO DEC...Upgrade from within.......

HM:ok:

HAJJ MAn,

NO 737 DEC is joining on the 330 fleet!

Believe you me, I have more then my facts straight!

All those guys join on either 320 or 300 fleets!!!!

330 DEC......only people with international Widebody experience and that my friend, is a fact.
Just to be totally correct, they have hired some A320 DEC on the 330 but these guys where flying 320 LH ops and had previous widebody experience. THis was only to fill in a very big crew shortage that will arrise in the next few months on the 330 fleet! But 737 guys, NO WAY!

If you dont believe me, try to get a hold of any name and send it to me via PM......Il check it again then but ill bet you a crate of beers you wont find that name...

:)

Qatari515,

I will try to find out a name for you and see if my sources are correct.

As for the bet on the crate of beers........... Sorry I don't drink !!!alcohol but I will make any other bet.

I am going on a flight today so I will try to check it out ..

Thanks

HM:ok:

WXman and Qatari515,

I have to apologize to you about the 737 deck crew joining on the A-330 fleet.

I asked in the office today when I went to work and found out I was wrong and I stand corrected.

I also apologize to anyone reading this post about the 737 crew joining direct to the A-330 as Captains. But they are a few direct entry F/o from some 737 operation in Europe joining.

It is a fact though that I know for sure that one if not a few have been hired to the A-300 fleet as you stated.

Please accept my apologies, it looks like I am the one who needs to do the homework here.

Thanks

HM:ok:

Hajj Man
you got it right this time no 737 DEC going on 330, they may if at all only go on 300 or 320. Heard that people with a good 8000-9000 hrs were considered for 300 and guys with lesser experience on the 320 I had a friend do an interview along with some 737 pilots you were talking about.
I also agree with you that a lot of buzz on Jet Airways pilots joining but there is more buzz then the total no. of pilots joining.
Infact there are now more 737 pilots out of the far east airlines.you talk of some contact with the hiring manager to pull his countrymen in but we all know the selection process at QR and the major emphasis is on the interview and simulator check. Who is this new Hiring manager you are talking about sure would like to know I need to try and help a friend get a job as he is unemployed now.