EK Salary Review Time Again
It's that time of year again for the annual review of pilot remuneration at EK.
Expectations seem to vary from highly optimistic to nothing at all. What can pilots look forward to, if anything? As I see it here are the potential elements for change:
Inflation is already biting hard in Dubai as it follows the rest of the world. Food prices are soaring leaving many reluctant to spend on travel. Interest rates will rise fast making loans harder to pay and making travel a nonessential expense. Fuel prices are high which is never good for aviation, particularly with a fleet of 4 engine jets. There is a strong chance of recession around the world. China seems to be intent on lockdown forever, disrupting supply chains thereby contributing to the inflationary effects. The fact that the Chinese cannot travel will also dent loads and yields. And of course, the devastating war in Ukraine will have many knock-on effects in relation to energy and food prices. All in all a grim outlook and IMHO unlikely to foster generosity for a pay review. While there is a steady stream of resignations, attrition remains below 5% with pilots and on the other side, there is a steady stream of new joiners and rejoiners. Most however have a very short horizon to stay as they look for jobs closer to home or seek to go back to a different life they discovered having been made redundant. Many pilots are simply jaded with the profession, as it offers little security, much fatigue, loss of family life, and ever-diminishing rewards. In real terms a pilots take home in the Middle East has decreased by 60% in the last 2 decades and the trajectory is ever downwards. Perhaps something to consider before uprooting the family to come here. But then there are not a lot of choices as the trend has been industry-wide. In fact more and more seem to seek an exit from the profession completely. I know one thing with almost absolute certainty: In a year’s time we will be 5-10% worse off in terms of purchasing power and saving potential than we are before the imminent Salary Review. Nonetheless, we can live in hope that the Review will offer some respite. |
Will be less than I hope for and more than I expect. For sure will be less than I am worth.
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Unfortunately, They can get plenty of qualified captain with 50% pay cut at the moment. Not to mention pay increase.
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I think you’ll find its the same situation in most countries in Europe also. Still many more benefits financially in EK than most EU “big” airlines post covid. Our company has had a pay freeze for 5 years and with the highest inflation rate in most Western Europe has no intent to offer any rise (not even 0.5%) . The grass is all brown.
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Originally Posted by lostinspace89
(Post 11221855)
I think you’ll find its the same situation in most countries in Europe also. Still many more benefits financially in EK than most EU “big” airlines post covid. Our company has had a pay freeze for 5 years and with the highest inflation rate in most Western Europe has no intent to offer any rise (not even 0.5%) . The grass is all brown.
Except for U.S.A, crazy hiring and pilot shortage. |
Originally Posted by Frankym
(Post 11221850)
Unfortunately, They can get plenty of qualified captain with 50% pay cut at the moment. Not to mention pay increase.
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Emirates/Qatar Contract
Hey guys im a CX FO looking to jump ship since CX massive paycut. Does anyone have a copy of Emirates or Qatar contract so I can compare the package? I am happy to share CX "toilet paper" contract for those who is crazy enough to move to hk. Thanks.
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They don’t use toilet paper in the Middle East.
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You must be pretty desperate to return/apply to EK nowadays.
Europe’s massively picking up and U.S. running into a pilot shortage. If you have not managed to get a decent job outside the Middle East yet, something went wrong, seriously! Whatever, been there, done that, got that T-Shirt - good luck to all of you… |
I don’t think so.
Europe is still quite a bit down on 2019 levels. Companies still not recruiting in droves. Legacy’s definitely not this year just taking back those made redundant and those that are in hold pools. RYR and Wizz only companies flying more than 2019 but they have just filled gaps from carriers gone under. RYR crews still on the 20% pay cut and flying max hours again and have been for a year now. Inflation rates going to bite and slow things down again. 7.8% average Euro zone. Netherlands at 11%!!! Others more. Turkey inflations at what 60% currently!!! I doubt salaries are going to go up anywhere outside of US. |
Originally Posted by paule737
(Post 11222391)
You must be pretty desperate to return/apply to EK nowadays.
Europe’s massively picking up and U.S. running into a pilot shortage. If you have not managed to get a decent job outside the Middle East yet, something went wrong, seriously! Whatever, been there, done that, got that T-Shirt - good luck to all of you… yes and no If you look into the names who are going back and can’t wait for, I assume most of them have a big time Problem to go somewhere else by the terms of their licenses as UK lic holders you can only stay in UK or go back to ME If you don’t have an EASA lic or FAA lic ( and if you have a FAA lic, you still don’t have a green card - which is a lengthy and costly thing to do) you are not going anywhere else then back to EK |
Originally Posted by paule737
(Post 11222391)
You must be pretty desperate to return/apply to EK nowadays.
Europe’s massively picking up and U.S. running into a pilot shortage. If you have not managed to get a decent job outside the Middle East yet, something went wrong, seriously! Whatever, been there, done that, got that T-Shirt - good luck to all of you… Theres an 8% inflation record in the UK and there are no airlines hiring even though flying had picked up. Many airlines still on covid contracts or pay freezes. Yes you’re right things are picking up but salaries or opportunities are down. |
Mercifully, unions are banned in the UAE. Without threats and intimidation to unnaturally disguise an employee's value, what is revealed is the market value of any employee.
Whatever Emirates is offering, it is the current value of a widebody pilot based in Dubai. You can't argue with market economics. |
Originally Posted by lostinspace89
(Post 11222754)
Can you provide proof of the MASSIVE opportunities in Europe?
Theres an 8% inflation record in the UK and there are no airlines hiring even though flying had picked up. Many airlines still on covid contracts or pay freezes. Yes you’re right things are picking up but salaries or opportunities are down. |
I know people recently employed by DHL, Ryanair, Norse, Vistajet, OneAir ……. So not quite a fantasy.
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Same situation here in Indonesia, as i work in biggest LCC in the country. Massive pay cut ranging 70-90% starts in 2020 without any information about the payback. LOFT and OPC seems to be harder it's planned to be held once per 3 months. I think they're try to squeeze the pilots here, so we can break the contracts and pay the penalty. Clever enough 😬
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Originally Posted by felixthecat
(Post 11223397)
I know people recently employed by DHL, Ryanair, Norse, Vistajet, OneAir ……. So not quite a fantasy.
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Originally Posted by felixthecat
(Post 11223397)
I know people recently employed by DHL, Ryanair, Norse, Vistajet, OneAir ……. So not quite a fantasy.
EASA Intial C1 £800-£1k, has to be done with a registered EU EASA medical place, in the UK that’s either Birmingham or London. EU it’s easier, outside of that good luck. Skills test. Name your price. (£1-3k). EASA English test (yes even if a native speaker) £200. CAA fee £45. EASA licence fee, varies £400-£600. These fees are the basics so without travel etc etc. Say £3k minimum. That’s just to be able to apply to most of the companies on your list. Oh and some now asking for ability to reside in EU land. UK passport/licence holders are extremely limited now. I hold EASA and UK now which has opened many more doors. For UK peeps it’s very limited. Flybe have started operations again (operating Q400) after going under March 2020. FO salary used to be £29k starting and could add around £10k to that with duty pay etc. Capt £71k with again £10k added. Same aircraft I have heard they are now offering FO £25kish without all the extras. Captains around £50k. Welcome to 2022 post COVID. |
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123
(Post 11223556)
I have heard of a few employed by those companies and also heard of a fair few who were at the interviews from EK and didn’t get positions. Not forgetting for UK licence holders there isn’t anything. Getting back an EASA will set you back ££££.
EASA Intial C1 £800-£1k, has to be done with a registered EU EASA medical place, in the UK that’s either Birmingham or London. EU it’s easier, outside of that good luck. Skills test. Name your price. (£1-3k). EASA English test (yes even if a native speaker) £200. CAA fee £45. EASA licence fee, varies £400-£600. These fees are the basics so without travel etc etc. Say £3k minimum. That’s just to be able to apply to most of the companies on your list. Oh and some now asking for ability to reside in EU land. UK passport/licence holders are extremely limited now. I hold EASA and UK now which has opened many more doors. For UK peeps it’s very limited. Flybe have started operations again (operating Q400) after going under March 2020. FO salary used to be £29k starting and could add around £10k to that with duty pay etc. Capt £71k with again £10k added. Same aircraft I have heard they are now offering FO £25kish without all the extras. Captains around £50k. Welcome to 2022 post COVID. Ryanair are looking for Learjet pilots with UK FCL DHL UK wanted UK FCL Norse wanted UK FCL OneAir wanted UK FCL Vistjet is the only one in that list that needs EASA |
Originally Posted by felixthecat
(Post 11223579)
That’s just to be able to apply to most of the companies on your list.
Ryanair are looking for Learjet pilots with UK FCL DHL UK wanted UK FCL Norse wanted UK FCL OneAir wanted UK FCL Vistjet is the only one in that list that needs EASA Anyway let’s look into more detail. For Norse you can have UK FCL but complete the transfer to EASA before starting your position. Of those DHL the best. OneAir my friend was offered a start date months ago but still hasn’t started. They keep delaying. I think Captain salty at OneAir was what £90k? 747 Captain £90k? Seriously? The RYR Learjet position is horrible. You only have to go on to flight radar and look at the type of flights it does. Lots of sitting around at airports on standby and most of the crews want to leave. And all of them hardly airlines with massive fleets taking 100s of pilots. edit: To add the OneAir needed 747 TR to apply as well. From all the pilots made redundant from flybe the ones with jobs I know either: 1. Have an EASA licence 2. Gone to Asia/ME. 3. Had connections within Private Jet sector. 4. Managed to get back into Flybe 2.0 but on a package far far worse than before. Great airlines to choose from. With EASA you have many many more options. |
So to add yet more detail for you….
I stated FR, I didn’t state if it was for 737 or Learjet until I added more information. I didn’t state if it was captains or FOs either but the Learjet position is for captains. OneAir have taken several EK pilots who have started already and the package is more than 90K. Even if that was it, its better than driving a supermarket van on minimum wage. They have also taken many pilots without 747 ratings. Norse don’t require you to have an EASA licence if you are going to be UK based, only if European based. And DHL is still on a UK FCL if you want it. If you wish to split more hairs feel free…. No not the worlds best options but there are jobs out there, but it is indeed easier if you have the EASA licence, and all in all its much easier than last year. |
Originally Posted by paule737
(Post 11222391)
You must be pretty desperate to return/apply to EK nowadays.
Europe’s massively picking up and U.S. running into a pilot shortage. If you have not managed to get a decent job outside the Middle East yet, something went wrong, seriously! Whatever, been there, done that, got that T-Shirt - good luck to all of you… |
Thread drift again.
Thought this was supposed to be about EK salary review! any other EK salary review rumours ? |
Originally Posted by DentBuckle
(Post 11223437)
Same situation here in Indonesia, as i work in biggest LCC in the country. Massive pay cut ranging 70-90% starts in 2020 without any information about the payback. LOFT and OPC seems to be harder it's planned to be held once per 3 months. I think they're try to squeeze the pilots here, so we can break the contracts and pay the penalty. Clever enough 😬
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Originally Posted by aviatorLeo
(Post 11223700)
if that's the case we should see a massive exodus from EK considering how ****ty things are over there right?
Most expats seem to be miserable but try to focus on the good things (wine, Legoland, APC, karak, Expo) otherwise insanity will win. |
So I guess no one has any good rumours about any pay rise / bonus?
just about sums EK up at present! |
I don't think anybody has any expectations to manage anymore.
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I believe it is best to expect nothing. Then everything else is a bonus.
To make this work, you do have to forget the halfpay and perks which were taken away the last few years. At least the laundry service is still for free. What to do. |
The lure of the Middle East will be stronger than ever is my guess.
Yes T+Cs have been eroded but back here in UK it’s hardly a bed of roses. Ignoring way of life in Dubai and culture which is personal preference when you crunch numbers still some serious money can be saved or enjoyed. Comparing Dubai to London. City to city I found prices are pretty even. When I was there last year a meal out with family was around 300-400AED. Same as in London at a local pub however the portions were more in Dubai. After every meal we would take food away with us. When you start adding tax in Dubai becomes attractive. Ok so FO EK Earns 30k AED a month To earn that in UK you would need £130k a year at least. That’s not even adding accommodation. Start adding up all the extras and how much can you save? Say you work at LHR for BA. Spend £300 1500 AED a month in fuel but you need to earn £600 before tax to pay that £300 fuel bill. That’s just one example. Not saying you shouldn’t be given a pay rise. Whole industry needs to bump up but compared to some salaries in EU/UK land ME carriers looking attractive. |
The lure of the Middle East will be stronger than ever is my guess. I'm not a moaner and I often defend the company here against some of the rampant bs that people spread but i would be lying if I didn't say there were some realities to living here. It's a fine job, but after 16 years, I am desperately seeking the motivation to stay - it would just be nice to see some 'give' from management after all of the 'take'. Otherwise I'm gonna pull the pin on my covid escape plan and they can pay for 2 pilots' training to replace me. |
Originally Posted by Kennytheking
(Post 11226510)
You are not wrong about that but I would counter that there is going to be a retention problem rather than a recruiting problem.
I'm not a moaner and I often defend the company here against some of the rampant bs that people spread but i would be lying if I didn't say there were some realities to living here. It's a fine job, but after 16 years, I am desperately seeking the motivation to stay - it would just be nice to see some 'give' from management after all of the 'take'. Otherwise I'm gonna pull the pin on my covid escape plan and they can pay for 2 pilots' training to replace me. Is a legacy worth it? Is it better to go with a LCC smashing out 4 sectors day after day? Is it better to go ME carrier be sensible and bank some ££€€$$? Have to choose what feels best for me right. I know a guy who did 15 years at EK and only stopped because he had to. Loved every minute of it and goes back to Dubai almost every other month. Others last a year and can’t cope. Run away never to return. Back to salary/packages I can’t see anywhere bumping up much if at all. Jet2 crew have been given some sort of raise but that’s the only one I know of and still below inflation. |
AIMINGHIGH123,
I can see your reasoning. Ever considered to invest a few 100 bucks and try the NIW-Visa-Route for the US? If I would have to start from scratch, that is what I would try. And the US will have to open up at one point, they are simply running out of guys with the necessary 1500 hours, and it is easier to play with immigration bureaucracy than to change a law that has the public perception of having made aviation safer. All the best. |
I have been watching these threads for 10 years and still haven't figured out how much the provident fund actually is for each rank so if anyone could clarify how that works I would appreciate IT. How much every month and how long to qualify etc. I gather an FO salary of around £6k but what is a Captain getting?
I'm currently a Captain in the UK getting around £6k into my account and £3.3k into my pension every month. Could go into training in a year or so but their lifestyle isn't great in my company so weighing up a ME move for 5 or 10 years once this impending recession is over in a couple of years. All the best. W |
EK pays an extra 12% of your base salary into the provident fund scheme. There's years of service required before you can leave and take it. It used to be 15% for those over 10 years, but don't mention the war..
Captain pay is 10 steps more than FO. A step is 3%. We used to get a pay step every year. There has only been 1 step increase since 2016.. There I go again.. mentioning the war.. |
Originally Posted by Shazeem
(Post 11225618)
I believe it is best to expect nothing. Then everything else is a bonus.
To make this work, you do have to forget the halfpay and perks which were taken away the last few years. At least the laundry service is still for free. What to do. |
Allaru and VP thank you for the excellent responses, in that case I'll hang on and watch my kids grow up and reassess in another 5 years.
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Sorry those white monk figures don’t add up to me?
You getting around £130k a year plus £3300 into your pension from company? That would mean your company is paying in 30% pension. Not in UK. £130k based on 15% contribution which is the most I have heard of in UK is around £1700. £130k gives £6400 take home plus £1700 say £8kish. Unless you mean you are getting £6k but adding more of your salary into your pension to reduce tax hit on £100-£120k tax bracket? Even still from my calculations you on slightly more that EK FO but less that EK Captain. EK FO is 42k (£9k) AEDish with added housing allowance. |
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123
(Post 11227377)
Sorry those white monk figures don’t add up to me?
You getting around £130k a year plus £3300 into your pension from company? That would mean your company is paying in 30% pension. Not in UK. £130k based on 15% contribution which is the most I have heard of in UK is around £1700. £130k gives £6400 take home plus £1700 say £8kish. Unless you mean you are getting £6k but adding more of your salary into your pension to reduce tax hit on £100-£120k tax bracket? Even still from my calculations you on slightly more that EK FO but less that EK Captain. EK FO is 42k (£9k) AEDish with added housing allowance. |
Originally Posted by Whitemonk Returns
(Post 11227451)
It's the last example, company contribution is 10% and I contribute 20% to try and stay below 100k but I'm probably going to have to up that to 25% to keep it under
From a financial point of you just looking at those sums staying put looks better. |
I’m in a very similar situation to you Whitemonk, and have been having the same thoughts for a few years.
The take home salary for a new EK FO is approx £6.5k pm, plus an accommodation allowance of £2.5k pm, so considerably more than we are currently receiving, but this is inflated by the current £/$ exchange rate. |
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