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Originally Posted by Nuweiba
(Post 10744597)
Just to digress.... google old pictures of Saudia Tristars and other aircraft of that era. You will find two different fonts for the name Saudia. Apparently it was changed because some bright spark claimed that the older version had a cross in it between the S and the A.
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Originally Posted by Airbubba
(Post 10744880)
Not the only time that's happened in the Middle East or elsewhere for that matter. A neighboring airline had a Quranic verse in its logo which was printed onto the interior upholstery of new aircraft. Someone decided that it was blasphemy to sit on the name of Allah so the interiors were redone.
Really? Where does it end? |
Originally Posted by Mohammed AlShehri
(Post 10744786)
As an unemployed saudi pilot ,I would like to say to all none Saudi pilots whom complaining a lot and talking bad about my country and Saudia Airlines, Saudia gave you a chance to earn flying hours and many type rating such as 777 and 787 and 330 as well while most Saudi National never had the chance to do so,
I wouldn’t be so mean and say you wouldn’t get a large salary like you did in saudia and never dream of being Captain in your countries, just be thankful and now you all have what you came for ( flight time ) (not for loving Saudia neither saudies )you’re not lost go back to your countries with what saudia honored ,you will find jobs , Now it’s time for saudi pilots to fly in their country, (one last thing I WOULD to say thank you FOR your SERVICE) not your business if Saudia can or cannot survive without expatriates it’s our business it is incorrect to say that Saudia gave a chance. Sounds like some people came to the country and got mountains of gold in exchange for nothing. They came to the place were they had been needed in order to perform certain work in certain conditions for certain money. Such relations are normally called "job". Now some pilots are feeling sad as the airline doesn't want to follow its own regulations and Saudian laws. Do they have the right to complain at least in the internet? You are talking about salaries. Guess why the salary in Saudia is better than in Europe? Same aircraft, similar procedures...? This is the market. European guy would never ever go to Saudia to work in the country where human rights are being abused, homosexuality leads to death penalty, etc. I don't want to say that this is bad, it's very unusual for the expats. It is not about politics, it's all about society and culture. They are very-very different. However, neither the airlines nor the pilots offered themselves to each other by force. Contracts had been signed, in a civilized world non-compliance with contracts causes at least disapprobation from people. If pilots violate their contracts, they are normally being punished in accordance with actual Terms and Conditions, and they have only themselves to blame. So may people who have been following their contracts complain and declare unfair treatment when they want? Flying widebody aircraft is not only a privilege, it's a hard work that shall be done by professionals. It's understood by airline management and insurance companies. By the way, why do you think Saudi nationals never had chance to fly that aircraft? Health? Experience? Competence? What's their problem in your opinion? And how do you think, why are EU and the US airlines not hiring Saudian expat pilots? The job market of Europe and the United States is full of professionals ready to demonstrate their experience and competence, so guys with 5000+ TT and jet experience can hardly get captain job of A320/B737. At Middle East they can become widebody captains. What's the trick, how do you think? The expat pilots (like all human beings) are not designed to like something they don't want to like, but they don't become less professional when tolerating East. Excuse me, I'm not sure if anyone said that he is worried about Saudia survival. Honestly speaking, very few care, IMO. People just want their contracts to worth something more than the paper on which they are written. As for me, I would like to hear someday that Saudia aircraft are flown by the locals. But! From you, not from avherald. |
Originally Posted by Mohammed AlShehri
(Post 10744786)
As an unemployed saudi pilot ,I would like to say to all none Saudi pilots whom complaining a lot and talking bad about my country and Saudia Airlines, Saudia gave you a chance to earn flying hours and many type rating such as 777 and 787 and 330 as well while most Saudi National never had the chance to do so,
I wouldn’t be so mean and say you wouldn’t get a large salary like you did in saudia and never dream of being Captain in your countries, just be thankful and now you all have what you came for ( flight time ) (not for loving Saudia neither saudies )you’re not lost go back to your countries with what saudia honored ,you will find jobs , Now it’s time for saudi pilots to fly in their country, (one last thing I WOULD to say thank you FOR your SERVICE) not your business if Saudia can or cannot survive without expatriates it’s our business You need to understand that a lot of the unfair criticism is born of emotion and frustration in a terrible personal situation. It was unfair of you to reply to these guys in the manner which you did. The expats were persuaded to come and work at Saudia by Saudi's. The persuasion included a lot of promises. Those promises were entirely reneged upon. Therefore bitterness should be understandable. I enjoyed my time working at Saudia. I believe 99% of all the Saudi's who I worked with were Gentlemen, intelligent and very capable. |
Originally Posted by SOPS
(Post 10744903)
Really? Where does it end?
A brown cargo operator put its Worldwide Services boast on the side of a new aircraft type years ago. With the main cargo door open it proclaimed 'World vices'. That livery was redone I'm told. |
Originally Posted by polax52
(Post 10744105)
As a Saudi, I wouldn't get involved here. People are venting a lot of stress and emotion.
The big issue regarding Saudiisation for expats: The Expats came from other high quality worldwide Airlines to Saudia. No one hired by Saudia was begging on the streets needing Saudia to come along and rescue them. Saudia management through agencies made a lot of promises. First Officers were promised command within 3 years. Captains were promised a rolling contract with a high salary which would take them to retirement. You have to understand the degree of bitterness when these promises have been reneged upon. Then not only that, Saudia Jettison these Pilots into the worst worldwide aviation situation in history. Getting a job on this occasion is likely to take 5 years or more. These are guys who came from their national carriers to Saudia on a promise. |
Originally Posted by truejoboffer
(Post 10744333)
I think you should avoid as an exuse motivate your crucked behind the scenes mascherading it as BS...it is you guys not BS and it looks like somebody is going to make you all go to
jail!! |
Originally Posted by FinalFixSv
(Post 10744830)
Don’t talk about professionalism when It’s funny coming from expats who steal apples and bananas from the galley after every flight. Some of the expats are so cheap they beg for a ride from the Saudi first officers because they don’t want to pay 40 riyals to Uber despite they heavy paycheck.
if you go to expats’ residence in Jeddah or Riyadh you see their fridges are filled with SV catering from water bottles to Tabasco. Even the tissue box they take it from the airplane. You expats don’t know that we know that you steal even time by playing with the clock and taxi and cruise on very low speed! This is Haram my friends |
This thread has lots of first time posters with interesting opinions :D LMAO
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Originally Posted by metro301
(Post 10745275)
This thread has lots of first time posters with interesting opinions :D LMAO
Originally Posted by FinalFixSv
(Post 10744830)
Don’t talk about professionalism when It’s funny coming from expats who steal apples and bananas from the galley after every flight. Some of the expats are so cheap they beg for a ride from the Saudi first officers because they don’t want to pay 40 riyals to Uber despite they heavy paycheck.
if you go to expats’ residence in Jeddah or Riyadh you see their fridges are filled with SV catering from water bottles to Tabasco. Even the tissue box they take it from the airplane. |
Ponzi Scheme at SVA planners: How it works
The Ponzi scheme how it works: good flights LHR 42 hours, IAD 52 hours layovers, etc.. etc, were hidden under office boys roasters, then redistributed among the Ponzi scheme B777 Captains and F/O the crew got the good layovers and pays the planners the amount of the perdiems, at a rate of SR25 per hour. Deposit at the bank account!!!!! |
All those years in English classes have finally paid off! Looks like the bots are in full force here.
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There is this prevailing attitude in the West and the Far East, oh, and South America too, that Arabs are untrustworthy.
Shame on them all. The Arabs were the original slavers, and they are simply continuing their traditions. UAE building workers, Filipina maids, American pilots. None are treated any differently. It is the custom of the slave owners and overseers. Mind you, flying in an airline flown only by its nationals, that could pose a problem for many passengers once the safety records start being broken. We all have a choice in such matters. Flying for/with Saudia? Caveat emptor. |
Originally Posted by ungrateful
(Post 10745438)
its very funny how people are very brave behind there screens and fake names
there is an old saying : give a man a mask and he will show you his true face i'm not gonna talk about all the benefits that the expats are getting even if they don't deserve half of it and did't dream of it in their wildest dream ever before coming to work for SAUDIA. I'm not gonna say go back to your countries and find jobs as a pilots because if you were a good pilots you will have a job in there and stay with you families. i'm not gonna say how unprofessional expat pilots are, they don't do any thing in the flight .. oh wait they do I'm sorry, they eat sleep taxi and play with the clock. i'm not gonna say how a lot of expat pilots don't know how to fly and the first officers always correct them. but let me simplify things for you: -the whole world is going thru a very big crises -airlines suffocating due to no income -people are dying from this virus -companies are closing -schools and colleges closed -a lot of airlines letting people go for good and you guys crying and wiping abut your 6 months of unpaid leave, you should be thankful for not letting you go because the most important thing for the airline now is to survive I under stand that is a bad situation for you but sometimes bad things happens forces us to priorities the things we need. i'm pretty sure that there something in the contract about force majeure. all the world is suffering not just you ps: I didn't write my real name because I'm as much pu$$y as you :D اذا اكرمت الكريم ملكته و اذا اكرمت اللئيم تمردا 1. I think most of the guys given the 6 months unpaid leave are happy with that but people have questions. Nobody to answer. 2. The standard of all of the expats is high by international standards. This kind of criticism is clearly unfair. 3. Saudia management were aggressively recruiting expats until 2016 then aggressively jettisoning them from 2017. You cannot suggest that this is reasonable. I do understand the Saudi Pilot's argument. It is reasonable. Why hire foreign pilots when there are unemployed pilots at home. I agree. But Saudia did and rather than living with it, Saudia have turned ruthless against their expat employees. |
GS, This is a big joke ,right?
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Great Saudia (handle says it all) forgot to justify forced marriage, marriage to minors, polygamy and female genital mutilation.
It is quite scary to think someone so deluded and deranged is allowed anywhere near aircraft. EDIT: this post may not make much sense now, but it is a comment in reply to a religious and xenophobic rant by Great Saudia - which in turn provoked some home truths from other PPRuNers (all posts since deleted). Read between the lines. |
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RESPECT TO ALL
As a human being, I don’t accept all the insults to any of my colleagues either saudis or not. It was a bad quote regarding non Saudi pilots are taking stuff from aircraft; ALL CREW AND STUFF OF SAUDIA ARE DOING THIS A BOTTLE OF WATER OR A MEAL. All the catering after flights is garbage. So , please we should not accuse our colleagues with stupid stories. I hope this crisis will be over soon. My sincere sympathy to all our colleagues who will go for 6 months unpaid leave. SAUDIA has no choice and I believe and hope it s the best for all. I hope and pray it will be over by June or July and all airlines will start flying at least at 50%. Again my full respect to all my expat colleagues. It s always a huge rich experience with in all aspects of life. WE ALL WILL BE FLYING SOO. GOD BLESS YOU SND YOUR FAMILY.
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Originally Posted by ojwings
(Post 10746633)
As a human being, I don’t accept all the insults to any of my colleagues either saudis or not. It was a bad quote regarding non Saudi pilots are taking stuff from aircraft; ALL CREW AND STUFF OF SAUDIA ARE DOING THIS A BOTTLE OF WATER OR A MEAL. All the catering after flights is garbage. So , please we should not accuse our colleagues with stupid stories. I hope this crisis will be over soon. My sincere sympathy to all our colleagues who will go for 6 months unpaid leave. SAUDIA has no choice and I believe and hope it s the best for all. I hope and pray it will be over by June or July and all airlines will start flying at least at 50%. Again my full respect to all my expat colleagues. It s always a huge rich experience with in all aspects of life. WE ALL WILL BE FLYING SOO. GOD BLESS YOU SND YOUR FAMILY.
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Originally Posted by ojwings
(Post 10746633)
As a human being, I don’t accept all the insults to any of my colleagues either saudis or not. It was a bad quote regarding non Saudi pilots are taking stuff from aircraft; ALL CREW AND STUFF OF SAUDIA ARE DOING THIS A BOTTLE OF WATER OR A MEAL. All the catering after flights is garbage. So , please we should not accuse our colleagues with stupid stories. I hope this crisis will be over soon. My sincere sympathy to all our colleagues who will go for 6 months unpaid leave. SAUDIA has no choice and I believe and hope it s the best for all. I hope and pray it will be over by June or July and all airlines will start flying at least at 50%. Again my full respect to all my expat colleagues. It s always a huge rich experience with in all aspects of life. WE ALL WILL BE FLYING SOO. GOD BLESS YOU SND YOUR FAMILY.
It's the First Officers that need the most consideration. |
About 50 first officers and about 45 captains prematurely terminated in these trying and taxing Covid19 times. With no other airline or company willing to recruit them due to heavy jugular bleeding themselves.
You call this Fair or Just ? I call it CONVENIENCE. Just like everything else that saudia does. Treat everything and everyone on the same platform. Like an unpaid BIT@H.,,!! At the very least I call it HARAM. And someone somewhere shall pay for it. |
Originally Posted by King on a Wing
(Post 10747663)
About 50 first officers and about 45 captains prematurely terminated in these trying and taxing Covid19 times. With no other airline or company willing to recruit them due to heavy jugular bleeding themselves.
You call this Fair or Just ? I call it CONVENIENCE. Just like everything else that SAUDIA does. Treat everything and everyone on the same platform. Like an unpaid BIT@H. At the very least I call it HARAM. And someone somewhere shall pay for it. Well, I think from what I heard that Saudia also is suffering as all other airlines in this Corona Crisis. So, if any airline in the world would think of letting go of employees, of course those would be the expats not the locals because if they chose the locals, the union or the media will criticize that. besides, Saudia according to what I know was used to pay the highest to the expats. Especially, the re-contract bonus, and the kids education to homeland schools that some took advantage of that to earn more. So, maybe the airline decided that enough is enough, especially SAUDIZATION is a must by end of 2020 by force from higher authorities. To all Saudia expats, lets be mature and stop insulting the airline by calling and mentioning bad words, remember that the airline hired lots of jobless pilots and has given pilots alot. So, Stop misleading others by accusing local pilots of being lousy and accusing local co-pilots of being bad and not ready for command. All airlines know what is right for them or wrong, they care about Safety, and High level of Safety was never related to having more expats in an airline. And instead of Mourning your Luck, You better from now on think of solutions for you and look for somewhere else in the world. In brief, It is crystal clear, that all airlines are suffering, so they make pay cuts, they force people to leave, or they shut down and collapse, so take it or leave it. |
Every ‘other world’ airline follows basic humane rules of employment and termination.
The termination clause used to be just a simple formality that was inserted decades ago by bean counters and lawyers. More a myth than a reality. SAUDIA has managed to make it a very stark reality ! And what a sad time to do it. When pilots needed some little form of assurity if nothing else. Something like kicking a dying man on his hospital bed ! Baxo Peace ☠️ |
Originally Posted by Great Saudia
(Post 10747859)
And instead of Mourning your Luck, You better from now on think of solutions for you and look for somewhere else in the world.
In brief, It is crystal clear, that all airlines are suffering, so they make pay cuts, they force people to leave, or they shut down and collapse, so take it or leave it. |
Originally Posted by RoyHudd
(Post 10745674)
The Arabs were the original slavers...
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Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli
(Post 10746222)
Great Saudia (handle says it all) forgot to justify forced marriage, marriage to minors, polygamy and female genital mutilation.
It is quite scary to think someone so deluded and deranged is allowed anywhere near aircraft. EDIT: this post may not make much sense now, but it is a comment in reply to a religious and xenophobic rant by Great Saudia - which in turn provoked some home truths from other PPRuNers (all posts since deleted). Read between the lines. I hope nutters like yourself stay away from aircraft ! |
Nuweiba, get a grip. And read some of your history. The first written reference to slavery is in the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi back in 1860 BC. Slavery was practiced by the Sumerians as far back as 3500 BC. And the massive trade of over 17 million Africans to Arabia and then more widely was orchestrated by muslim arabs from various regions of what is now the Middle East. To be fair, this trade existed in pre-muslim Arabia, going back to the times I referenced earlier.And in Saudi Arabia, slavery was officially banned in 1962, after pressure from Great Britain.
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Originally Posted by RoyHudd
(Post 10748518)
Nuweiba, get a grip. And read some of your history. The first written reference to slavery is in the Babylonian Code of Nammurabi back in 1860 BC. Slavery was practiced by the Sumerians as far back as 3500 BC. And the massive trade of over 17 million Africans to Arabia and then more widely was orchestrated by muslim arabs from various regions of what is now the Middle East. To be fair, this trade existed in pre-muslim Arabia, going back to the times I referenced earlier.And in Saudi Arabia, slavery was officially banned in 1962, after pressure from Great Britain.
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Mate , give it a rest ! ME is notorious for not honouring contracts . Most expats know that before going .
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By far the most entertaining thread on this site... much needed these times ... keep it up chaps!
Joking aside, my commiserations to any pilot losing their job these days - be they expats, Saudi's or others. As Fatbus pointed out, any expats taking on a job in the middle east are fully aware of the risks and conditions - that is why you are being paid a premium for working there. Complaining about it ex-post is unseemly and disingenuous. Personally I enjoyed my time in Saudi, and the vast majority of the Saudi's I met were stand-up people. Although I had my share of "unexpected" experiences, I'm not bitter and I hold the country in great affection. I've certainly met more bad apples on the streets of London, Paris, LA, etc... |
Been an expat for 40 years, including 10 years in JED. One thing I have learned is that stereotyping people based on their nationality never works. Pretty much all humans are equal. Good apples and bad apples come from every harvest.
Living in Jeddah was fun, the lack of alcohol was not an insurmountable problem, the diving, sailing and golf was pretty good and the social life was most excellent. We had fun and really enjoyed our time and still hold fond memories of KSA and our many Saudi friends. The nastiness displayed in this thread does not do anyone any favors. Worse still, it makes the profession look pretty low class. ps... is that old sand golf course (Desert Lakes Golf Club) just north of the airport still there? Please don't tell me its been converted to yet another shopping mall! |
Seems like you were in Jeddah pre dinosaur era lucille.
No offense meant, but after centuries of greedily living off of the hard earned money of poor( sometimes very poor )pilgrims coming to Mecca for Haj and, decades of making easy oil money from the taxpayers of the world, all of this must come to an end. It’s time the hunter became the hunted and the tables were turned. The free oil tap has now been cut off, the fake tourism in the name of religion into Mecca has been shut down and one of their major free consumers of oil ie Saudia Airlines has been brought to its knees. If this doesn’t teach the SAUDI Arab a lesson in humanity and its power, then I’m afraid he will only learn when he has to eat sand for breakfast followed by a stiff drink of the now useless crude oil and then a visit to an empty mosque in Mecca. Combined with stratospheric egos, corruption in their DNA and an unmatched greed for money, this nation settling into the nameless shifting sands vey soon as just another unmarked giant dune is simply inevitable. Nature strikes back and it’s time to pay ! The price may be too heavy for some I fear. I however even now pray that they learn to be humane before the hand of allah strikes them their final blow. Getting bad curses and worse duas from 3-400 expat pilots losing their jobs at a time like this isn’t going to help their cause much I’m afraid. Es hora de sentir el dolor. |
I would agree with that completely Lucifer. In fact many pilots in Saudia are considering international legal action against the airline on grounds of its racist approach towards some pilot communities and issuance of termination letters to some whilst awarding no pay leave to others.
This is a huge tsunami just waiting to engulf the airline now ! |
Good luck to them . I hope they have lots of cash , laywers love cash . You honestly think they have a case . " fine print "
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Originally Posted by King on a Wing
(Post 10768403)
I would agree with that completely Lucifer. In fact many pilots in Saudia are considering international legal action against the airline on grounds of its racist approach towards some pilot communities and issuance of termination letters to some whilst awarding no pay leave to others.
This is a huge tsunami just waiting to engulf the airline now ! Termination versus Unpaid Leave appears more to do with fleet type than nationality. I feel for anyone effected, just not seeing a race issue. |
Originally Posted by metro301
(Post 10769246)
This has to be the best humour I have read all week. A huge tsunami.... LMAO. As opposed to the near total shut down of the airline?
Termination versus Unpaid Leave appears more to do with fleet type than nationality. I feel for anyone effected, just not seeing a race issue. Just curious. |
IMHO... 330 Guys are an endangered species at the airline, they were not flying much before covid.
320 expats were offered UPL, domestic ops shut down last and will most likely start up first. There was high demand before covid. 777 is a coin toss. |
Which compound do the (expat) guys stay? Or is it possible to get the housing allowance?
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Saudi City
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Housing
As far as I know all the expat were transferred to Riyadh in a nice compound called Marvela, even the guys in Jeddah, almost 90% of them, all to Riyadh, I stayed in a Hotel in Jeddah for 1.5 years then the sent me to RUH in Marvela mandatorily.
They tried to offer money instead of accomodation but the process failed because they were offering 400 USD a month only so nobody applied. |
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