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Say bye, bye productivity!
So for those who haven't heard our latest casualties:
- 2 fleet managers - 2 deputy chief pilots - 1 chief pilot - 100+ pilots - senior instructors - senior examiners From the little man with all the wonderful ideas. We are now an airline composed of 2 bar pilots and 6 month training Captains with thousands of VP's. Any guess as to why we are having near crashes on a monthly basis? Our pilot count is back to 2016 levels and dropping. Instead of the pilot package improving, the rumor mill is suggesting we are about to lose productivity pay, why? Because we are just glorified flight attendants and don't need it! Unbelievable. |
Does it surprise anyone then to read some gems from the LSManager:
.... the crew found themselves unexpectedly having to deal with subtle changes in environmental conditions .... .... crew found the aircraft floating after encountering performance increasing updraft .... .... in all cases the winds were light and variable .... Decision made, i have to leave that amateur outfit asap, it becomes beyond ridicule. |
So we loose productivity and basically they can make us fly any amount they want. No limit on monthly hours except as legally limiting...... wonderful !
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They have form, when it comes to productivity pay.
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Any new or existing CP would have to resign immediately if the above rumor is true to have any credibility - a line must be drawn by those that take the responsibility- otherwise complicit. |
Originally Posted by fliion
(Post 10222614)
Any new or existing CP would have to resign immediately if the above rumor is true to have any credibility - a line must be drawn by those that take the responsibility- otherwise complicit. |
Thats why the current CP quit!
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Originally Posted by desertbob
(Post 10222654)
Thats why the current CP quit!
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Originally Posted by glofish
(Post 10222277)
Does it surprise anyone then to read some gems from the LSManager:
.... the crew found themselves unexpectedly having to deal with subtle changes in environmental conditions .... .... crew found the aircraft floating after encountering performance increasing updraft .... .... in all cases the winds were light and variable .... Decision made, i have to leave that amateur outfit asap, it becomes beyond ridicule. |
The company seems to be having difficulty recruiting new pilots. Starting to reduce pay to attract more bodies would be brilliant! :ugh:
let's wait and see. |
Sounds just a wild rumour, if they don’t pay don’t work simple. |
Who starts these rumours.... |
Originally Posted by Schnowzer
(Post 10223029)
Sounds just a wild rumour, if they don’t pay don’t work simple. |
Which Fleet Managers?
The CP allegedly resigned because the O2 thief 2 levels above bollocked him in front of subordinates, a cultural no-no. Near crashes on a monthly basis - BS. subtle changes in environmental conditions - yup, subtle being the one that sneaks up on you when you're tired and/or not expecting it! floating after encountering performance increasing updraft - laws of physics dude, what were you expecting. Unless you have superhuman powers to predict it, you have to react to a change. May not be a native english speaker so "found" might not be the most enlightening phrase. There's plenty to complain about, for sure, but there's a heap of hot air here too. |
“Overtime” is UAE law. They might be able to change the time for when it kicks in,as they have done in the past, but it is not going anywhere. |
It’s also against UAE law to hold an employees passport yet I saw EK doing exactly that and flat out refuse to give back a Canadian passport to a leaving employee. They basically used it as blackmail for said individual to sign an amended EOS statement on his LDS which surprise surprise was worth a lot less after EK had done its “adjustments”. Its also UAE law for the company to pay for all visa related costs of the employee and family yet EK doesn’t do that either. If if you believe EK wont do it your either naive or have been here to long. |
A lot of labour "law" also "doesn't apply" because HQ is in Dxb Airport Freezone... yeah convenient
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Originally Posted by pilotguy1222
(Post 10224394)
“Overtime” is UAE law. They might be able to change the time for when it kicks in,as they have done in the past, but it is not going anywhere. |
Originally Posted by fliion
(Post 10222614)
Any new or existing CP would have to resign immediately if the above rumor is true to have any credibility - a line must be drawn by those that take the responsibility- otherwise complicit. What will it take for pilots to have responsibility here? |
Originally Posted by RK Blue sky
(Post 10229173)
Does that mean every pilot should resign also out of principle if they take another item out of our package? We have all been complicit over the years but the majority of EK pilots aren’t leaving no matter what they take away from us or do to us. What will it take for pilots to have responsibility here? |
Originally Posted by gearlever
(Post 10229194)
Some have balls, others don't.
It's a catch22! |
Originally Posted by glofish
(Post 10229472)
Well, the ones with balls have kids ...... and many are therefore stuck.
It's a catch22! Folks will stay if they choose to stay, others choose to leave, its not a complicated choice. Your Sh...t bucket just isn'f full enough yet. |
Originally Posted by The Outlaw
(Post 10229594)
I call BS on that glofish, no one is stuck. I have 2 kids and left the sandbox 2 months ago.
Folks will stay if they choose to stay, others choose to leave, its not a complicated choice. Your Sh...t bucket just isn'f full enough yet. it doesn't mean we are happy or unhappy and last time I checked I still had a pair, but it is sometimes easier (and smarter) to manage the devil you know rather than risk jumping from frying pan into fire. Emirates has issues and it is probably going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. But am I really going to quit on a matter of principle when I can quit in 2-3 years and retire early? |
So you’re basically saying your “Stuck” here Bananas. It is going to get a whole lot worse and it is never ever going to get better here, ever, so why stay? It is so much better elsewhere as another posting pointed out with LH and I know Delta is leaps and bounds ahead of EK. Its not a matter of principle it’s a matter of your health and sanity and with most other airlines paying more and working less hours you would be far better off leaving even if you only have 2-3 years left. |
Originally Posted by RK Blue sky
(Post 10229670)
So you’re basically saying your “Stuck” here Bananas. It is going to get a whole lot worse and it is never ever going to get better here, ever, so why stay? It is so much better elsewhere as another posting pointed out with LH and I know Delta is leaps and bounds ahead of EK. Its not a matter of principle it’s a matter of your health and sanity and with most other airlines paying more and working less hours you would be far better off leaving even if you only have 2-3 years left. I am not 'stuck' here at all. But when I compare the financial costs, disruption etc just to go somewhere else for 4-5 years (v 2-3 if I stay at EK) prior to retirement it makes sense to minimise the overall frustrations by staying at EK. That doesn't mean I am happy or unhappy at EK. It simply means that there is minimal overall frustration (or maximum overall satisfaction) by staying here for another 2-3 years. I can manage the health side of things quite easily. If I am sick or fatigued I don't fly. My 'productivity' can't be great but no call for a chat yet. I'm not sure I can simplify it any more than that. |
I would suggest that only an idiot lets his balls override rational decision making. I hope you guys don't operate in the plane like that........
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How do you manage your sick time each and every month to fly 75-80 hrs like regular airlines do? You call in sick 1-2 trips every month? You’re berating me when I’m actively trying to leave this dump while you choose to stay and put up with EKs numerous imperfections, safety and health concerns. Enjoy your 2-3 yrs here. I hope you make it all the way to the end. |
Originally Posted by RK Blue sky
(Post 10230164)
How do you manage your sick time each and every month to fly 75-80 hrs like regular airlines do? You call in sick 1-2 trips every month? You’re berating me when I’m actively trying to leave this dump while you choose to stay and put up with EKs numerous imperfections, safety and health concerns. Enjoy your 2-3 yrs here. I hope you make it all the way to the end. We each have different personal situations, financial goals, personal goals, capacity to manage DXB/EK etc. If it ever gets too much we will leave and not look back but so far it has been managable. Not great but managable and certainly better (or less bad) than the disruption, cost and stress associated with moving jobs, house, country etc. i hope it works out for you. You have made your decisions, I have made mine. |
RK, Bananas has been a Capt in a few Expat jobs prior to this one. His unemotional response is something you need to understand . Only you can decide your future. If you are not happy move on to somewhere you will be .This place is not worth wasting agro on.
Bananas has made a decision, like many of us have, and we take responsibility for that . No-one is stopping you from leaving, if that's what you want to do, other than yourself. For some a few years extra mean we don't need to find another job . Even if that other job was with Delta, the pay cut, and extra years required wouldn't be worth it . Our goals or timeline is different to yours, and that's OK. I hope it all works out for you. |
It has changed in my time here from being a rewarding career to being a figure on a sheet that lets me escape. Jumping to another airline with its associated faults (and they all have them) takes a minimum of 18 months to break even cash wise, and thats assuming it pays more. If it pays similar then you have lost 18 months for 'life' at the end since you need to retire 18 months later. I have a target and a figure, the second that is reached I will be pushing 2 and will be out of here. Such a shame it had to go this way, as I say it used to be a career.
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I am in the same boat as Bananas.
RK, it depends on how old you are and if you have time to absorb a layoff or bankruptcy. Those of us who are close to retirement have less time to recover from events beyond our control. Everything looks great right now, but a single "event" could change that in an instant. An example I can offer is that I basically got hired by a large brown box carrier 2 months after I arrived in Dubai the summer of 2007. I was assigned a class at brown box in early December 2007. They were supposed to hire 500 guys in very short order. Of course the economy slowed and hiring at brown stopped the end of December and 350-400 pilots were put on the street in January 2009, for about 4 years. As much as I wanted the job, common sense at the time prevailed. As a result, I was a captain here the entire time versus being on the street during the financial crisis. Pure luck. Stuff happens and you have to think about how bad things could possibly get.......and it is not just all "Blue Skies". |
At the risk of thread creep, can a few posters give an idea of what age the are planning on retiring? How large would the retirement fund have to be to hang up the flying helmet for good?
As a pilot in a European flag carrier, I'm interested in the perceived advantages of the ex-pat flying career . |
Originally Posted by hunterboy
(Post 10230541)
At the risk of thread creep, can a few posters give an idea of what age the are planning on retiring? How large would the retirement fund have to be to hang up the flying helmet for good?
As a pilot in a European flag carrier, I'm interested in the perceived advantages of the ex-pat flying career . |
To give up for good $1.5 million US and house paid off
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Originally Posted by hunterboy
(Post 10230541)
At the risk of thread creep, can a few posters give an idea of what age the are planning on retiring? How large would the retirement fund have to be to hang up the flying helmet for good?
As a pilot in a European flag carrier, I'm interested in the perceived advantages of the ex-pat flying career . |
You will need a minimum of 25x your expenses to retire but preferably more, I’m aiming for 35x so I have a buffer. I’m attempting to get there by saving hard and not wasting money on unnecessary items. Eg. No shiny new Porsche on the drive, no 700 dirham champagne brunches, no 2000 dirham dinners at Nusr-Et, no weekends at Bab Al Shams etc |
You sound like a lot of fun frequent flyer. Good on you for planning on leaving a huge inheritance for those you leave behind.
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Originally Posted by donpizmeov
(Post 10231973)
You sound like a lot of fun frequent flyer. Good on you for planning on leaving a huge inheritance for those you leave behind.
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I guess most posters are planning on retiring at 60+? Must be difficult to save 1-1.5 Mil before that? My own sums show a seemingly healthy fund equivalent to a couple of Mil, but appearances are deceptive. With various govt surcharges and income tax, it works out at a few thousand a month for 30 years ish. Not actually a lot to show for a 35 + year career. Options include staying abroad in a low income tax country, but I guess most ex pat retirees are looking forward to returning home? |
Hunter like everything it depends on luck. Some got commands in 12 months of arriving some years ago. Others arriving several years later had to wait 7 yrs on one fleet while it was 3yrs on the other. All of this is beyond the individuals control . I know some that have the majority of their provident fund in cash and bonds, and they will be working to the age limit to fund retirement. Others did well with property here and retired at 50 . Others lost all savings on property deals that went wrong .
For some, depending on when they joined, it could be mid late 50s. For others it will be later . Of note, those over 17yrs in will more than likely stay here and leave when they have enough to retire. Those with less time leave to work elsewhere. Well seems that way with the fellas I know anyway . In my time here my seniority has moved about 300 numbers, when those that joined a decade later have moved 2.5 times that. Not sure that will continue though as conditions seem to slide rather than continue. But not paying income tax is a very positive thing when it comes to investing. Some countries will tax you when you send that lump sum home. Others luckily don't. |
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