EK Training department roster
 

Provisional roster for August is out, and just as July, it is a complete disaster..
Do any of the trainers still receive their block of days off? I have a maximum of 2 days off in a row in both July and (provisional) August. I had a look at some random rosters and it seems that I am not alone, there are some horrible trainer rosters out there. Quite a bit worse then line rosters. On top of that, try swapping a training duty: basically impossible.

It's not good at all. Same for me. Happy to have leave this summer but only 2 days off after and zero prior. I bid for the block - denied. Things are really breaking down.

MR8, Why are you still training then? quit.. It is as simple as that.

SpanishFly, because I like training, simple as that. Unfortunately, the cons of being in training are starting to outweigh the motivation, so I'm seriously considering quitting, just as you suggested. Just wondering whether it is just me, or is this feeling widespread in the department?

MR8

It's so bad I hear the line audit gents are being told to go fly and no audits

One reason given for abused partners staying in a relationship that every one else can see as bad is they have invested time and effort into that relationship and just want it to return to the good old days. They hang on hoping it might change back for the better but sadly, just keep getting the abuse....Keep hanging on MR8...

Same here, no block of days off being honored, it's the only carrot that would make us happy. Time to bring it up on the coming STD meetings?

Guess not! Been there, done that! Apathy sinking in, working on exit plan.

That's it!

I left training (not too long ago) after many years in the department. I haven't felt happier in a long time. More days off, more money per hour in the seat, per diems, no reports, no risks, no regrets.


J

GAME OVER boys.. Its only gonna get worse... Resignation is so close I can smell it and cant wait... Only thing keeping me going, that and SK :-)))))

I too have seen some of the new LTC's, and wondered on which experience they actually going to train.. Nothing wrong with a new trainer: everybody has to start somewhere, but I would like to believe that you would need some actual command experience before you can train an upgrade on 'soft skills'.

Conditions for the new LTC scheme have changed dramatically from the old TRI-AO's as in it is now a pay-per-duty appointment. 500 Dhs per training duty vs. a monthly appointment pay. Another erosion of our conditions. Wondering how long it's going to take to have pay per duty TRI and TRE's?

And last but for sure not least, I guess a lot of the line guys who are lining up to become a LTC still have the impression that trainers are in a better bidding position with a better lifestyle. It is clear that these people haven't been looking at some random rosters from trainers lately, this is for sure not the case anymore.

MR8

500 AED per training duty?!!:yuk: About $27/hour for a 777/380 trainer. Unbelievable. That would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

@MR8, seeing some of my buddies Training rosters, when this latest FCI came out, i thought about applying for it for about 5 minutes, then said nah!

One of them told me that the training rosters are sh1t and also told me you do realise that its pay per training duty. Also, when being trained to be a trainer, you get no additional training pay, wtf!! :mad::mad: Plus to be honest, its the Training job with the most risk to your career (Line Trainer), and some of the delightful places we fly to, f**k that.

Only good side, some enjoy the training, not much jet lag, but thats about it.

SyB :yuk::yuk:

SYB

Agree with you, especially on the point of risk. Despite a cultural improvement from the training department, and to some extent fleet, putting your career on the line for 500dhs a duty is madness. Unfortunately, the kudos for many new Captains of adding a star onto their still shiny new 4 stripes is too hard to resist. What they may not have grasped yet is that just one screw up which exposes the brand in a negative light and they're toast.

The Manchester event may have been 5-6 years ago but that was the day I decided to avoid ever becoming a LTC/TRI in this Company. And while I do have sympathy for the many trainers frustrated with their rosters, and who might well be getting more professional satisfaction than financial from the role, resigning on mass is the only way you'll ever change conditions.

Remember, they need trainers to train trainers!

Harry

Harry,

You are absolutely right, but unfortunately in the trainer group, as well as in the pilot group, there is no unity. Too many trainers won't quit because they can't afford to lose the money, or they couldn't stand not having the shiny star on their shoulder, or any other reason. Also, who will find the courage to organize a mass resignation?? It sounds awfully close to a unionized action, and we all know what could be lost doing that.
The sad reality is that the training department will slowly be losing the guys with a genuine interest in giving training, but who can't find the motivation anymore due to the abusive rosters.

MR8

21 days leave and over 42 hours in the remaining. 1 single day off after leave.
Keep writing your concerns to MM and don't forget to copy HD.
Same as MR8.... Love training but not at the current pace... :(

Sat through a training "standards" meeting recently. One "compromise" after the next presented to the meeting. We've moved from a department focused on "industry best practise" to now doing whatever is needed to complete the task.

Now we have turbo prob pilots being trained by out source trainers overseas who may have never operated with EK procedures, or perhaps ground instructors in Dubai who've never flown jets, then they're trained in the aircraft by new trainers who've never instructed on jets and potentially only had six months command themselves. The managers are swamped just trying to keep up with all the changes, so they struggle to monitor the progress of trainees. Every trainer is doing 90-110 hours, far more training duties than ever before. (now running at 14-16 per month). Everyone is completely knackered.

Trainees are being rushed through courses, and it's quite clear more "compromises" are being applied when it comes to pass standards.

Doesn't take a great deal of intelligence to figure that risks are at an all time high.

When are our managers going to grow a set and simply say "we can't do this at this level any longer". Ain't going to happen of course.

As long as the guys going through upgrade are not being rushed and helped through if they are not upto standard because soon you will have guys in the left and right who are not experienced taking people over the N Pole and other demanding parts of the World... Overall its not a good situation and soon something may happen with this and the fatigue issues at present...:mad:

I would suggest at around the same time, line pilots decide they've had it. The reasons are the same for both: No unity amongst the ranks, entirely ego driven agenda and the knowledge if you say no, you'll be replaced instantly by someone who'll have a go at it.

Managers and pilots have so much in common, it's 'funny' how they don't get along better. On further examination, however, it becomes apparent why that is the case: Pitching two massive ego's against each other is hardly a recipe for success.

Don't worry , those TP pilots will be fast tracked into the LHS 380 and become LTCs in 6 months . Just waiting for the holes to all align. Could be why several senior TREs have quit.

Eventually all are assimilated to the Borg!

They do occasionally say it shouldn't happen and exit straight left shortly later. It was about 3 years ago the last manager put his head above the parapet. He got it shot off!