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I'm not negative : for example, I usually have excellent rosters, which make for a great time here.
I didn't use the word "rubbish" first, please read again. |
Two different sides of the same story, EK is what you make of it, as simple as that. The same applies to Dubai.
I would never tell anyone not to come to EK simply because I know a big numbers of guys who are happy here. Personally EK and Dubai worked well for me, I was mostly happy about the way I was treated by the company during my time here, except for some occasions while in training events . But the time passed and now I'm tired and after over 30 years flying I need a lighter job. Boeing rosters are good when you talk about the top bid months, mainly with a reasonable seniority. But they can be horrible in your bottom bid months. I don't mind flying 90 hours if I have 12 to 15 days off plus a few rest days or arrivals just after midnight. That's the Big Bus life every month. But I'm Boeing and flying 90 hours with just seven days off is something I can't do it for long anymore, and I had that recently. Besides that I have to admit that after over 20k hours of experience in airlines I want to have piece of mind when it comes to my recurrent PPC's. I'm tired of having to regain my job every six months. The uncertainty of how your sim rides will be is what makes me unconfortable. My two last PPC's were amazing, really positive experiences, but unfortunately you just know that for sure when it ends. I had other ones which were quiet painful and even though I managed to pass they were simply horrible experiences. Money wise as it was already said here is quiet good, but it's becoming harder and harder to save money due to the escalating prices for anything you need. FO with children saving money? Well done Aviation enthus, this is really not easy. Company accomodation isn't bad at all, lot's of internal space and not the worst areas in town. MS and MH have small garden areas, but still have very generous internal areas. I don't think too many pilots could afford to live in villas of the EK average size before coming to Dubai. The building standards are not great, but acceptable, and at the end of the day it's not yours and EK pays for all maintenance. All your bills related to the villa are paid by EK as well, even the gas for your BBQ. So it's definitely not "rubbish" as Kobus mentioned. By the way if Aviation still saves money with four children you should tell him he's a magician, if you want, but not hit him hard. I left company accomodation for a much better standard a long time ago, but this isn't viable today. Even you manage to buy something really nice the bills and the interest will kill most of the alllowance, if not all. The option now (my opinion) is to buy a 3 bed townhouse for just over 2 million dirhams and make every expense fit inside the allowance. By doing this you just spend the down payment and then EK will pay the rest. Once you leave you sell the house and take all the money back home. But keep in mind that this choice means a downgrade in terms of space, though not necessarily a downgrade in terms of community standards. Savings are possible, but it depends a lot on your choices in how to spend your hard worked for money. I was visiting a friend in the Meydan South a few days ago and I've seen a Ferrari that looked quiet new parked in a colleague's garage next to his villa. That's a good example of someone that most likely don't save much, cause that toy probably costs him more than 4 children. Ferraris are not very common in company accomodation but Porsches are everywhere and they're not cheap at all. Fancy sport cars are the most common way of burning your money, mainly if you buy a brand new one. So my advice to all that are planning to come to EK is to look at YOURSELF and YOUR family and decide if it's going to be worthy for YOU, considering YOUR priorities and YOUR future plans. Don't let others decide what will be your future life. Unhappy people use to come here more often than the happy ones, keep that in mind as well! |
As for the EK skipper who went the Cathay Dragon, well done that man. He's not the first and won't be the last to go in that direction. |
Good post Desert Peregrin, I agree with your post and sentiments. Every airline around the world has its issues, no job is the perfect job, but for some EK might be the better option than your current outfit.
EK and Dubai are what you make of them. If you want to moan and feel bitter about things, then you will probably do that wherever you lay your head. Hi Dan, good to see you lurking in these forums, your fingers accidentally tap the wrong forum heading haha. Now I must go take out the Bentley and hope I don’t scratch the Ferrari on the way out to Brunch, oh it’s a EK Pilots life for me! Happy Halloween J |
Desert Peregrin seconded!
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I’m guessing none of you happy souls have been relocated to the MS labour camp and who are enjoying the delights of the South Americans and their 5am “samba”parties, like my mate is.
Being happy because you are used to being treated a certain way and housed a certain way is not the same, theres a city in Sweden that’s named after that particular affliction. |
There is a pretty simple solution to that. Take the allowance and separate yourself from EK accommodation. Why anyone would want to live out there is beyond me :yuk:
Spot on desert, couldn't agree more! |
Originally Posted by falcon
enjoying the delights of the South Americans and their 5am “samba”parties, like my mate is.
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Originally Posted by Desert Peregrin
Besides that I have to admit that after over 20k hours of experience in airlines I want to have piece of mind when it comes to my recurrent PPC's. I'm tired of having to regain my job every six months..
Originally Posted by Desert Peregrin
FO with children saving money? Well done Aviation enthus, this is really not easy.
Originally Posted by Desert Peregrin
I left company accomodation for a much better standard a long time ago, but this isn't viable today. Even you manage to buy something really nice the bills and the interest will kill most of the alllowance, if not all. The option now (my opinion) is to buy a 3 bed townhouse for just over 2 million dirhams and make every expense fit inside the allowance.
So in simple words, you just said that what was possible some years ago, is no longer affordable - have we been collectively punished for something ? Pprune readers considering the move will be delighted to read that should they come, they will have to live in an improved labour camp. |
Guys what's the deal on this emirates offer? Nearly finishing up my ATPLs in europe on a cadet programme with employment on a 320 soon ... what are the chances of succeeding and getting the 777? I'd imagine over the next 3 years it will be the 777x we'll be talking about. There's lots of negativity here but I've also heard many people are loving it and so I'd love to take the plunge and head east for a few years, one guy I'm following on instagram even bought one very fancy looking sports car after just over a year there ... can't be that bad!!
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Couldn't agree more Kobus! And these young ones need to prove themselves that they deserve their job by trying to teach you something they still don't know for themselves! And the "peace"(no corrector this time) of mind will never come while these guys are still there...
I don't know Aviation saves like that with four children. Anyway happiness doesn't necessarily come together with how much money you spend. Property markets change worldwide Kobus, Dubai is no exception to this. Anyway the cost of living here is becoming a big problem for all of us, even more when we don't even get our step of 3%! Regarding the town houses when I first bought in Dubai it was a town house in the Ranches. It was a confortable house in an amazing community. So I have to disagree with you Kobus, many of the town house communities are nice places to live in. And remember, we're pilots, we're not at the top of the salary levels.:= |
Not taking the bait :rolleyes:
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Millennials...too lazy to even bother crafting a believable troll! :}
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Not sure where the trolling is, it would be a lie to say i (and without a doubt many others in my position) haven't got one eye wondering over that direction with something of a wish to go there. I've been an observer of these threads for a long time and the negativity is obvious, the only other views of the job at EK are via instagram, and in all honesty the cries of negativity here do not play out on there. So I used a thread which seemed suitable to ask the question. And over the next 3 years it does look like the 777x will be coming in. Never mind I'll find another way to get my information.
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momo - no issue with your question.
But I would be interested to know how instagram, essentially a photo sharing social media site, can provide any meaningful information? Not forgetting that many like to post their 'hero' photos - big airplane, destination, flight deck etc. I like taking the same photos once and while, though without the need to constantly post them to prove how good my life is. There is good and bad at EK. Anyone with half a brain can go through the posts and come to a logical conclusion about conditions and whether they would suit the individual. Looking at pretty pictures on instagram is not a through investigation. You are new to the business - not even fully licenced. We were all there at one time and had the same dreams - big shiny airplanes, flying around the planet, pretty cabin crew and illusions of grandeur. I would even suggest that most of us, when we came to EK, during the times when we were experienced new hires, STILL came (at least in small part) due to the big, shiny airplane. The difference today is that the conditions are different. Which is why they can no longer find anyone with experience. So, yup, if you can get here in the next few years with low time it might be a good bet. Some time in the future the hiring boom will stop (it always does) and it will be interesting to see then how the conditions will be perceived. If conditions are bad when they can't find pilots imagine how they will change when they have an ample supply. But then again who cares right - cause you're flying a big, shiny jet. |
EK, at the moment, reminds me of the (allegedly apocryphal) conversation between the Executive Financial Director and Chief Operations Officer of a large airline.
EFD: 'What happens if we invest in the pilots by paying them what they are worth and they leave?' COO: 'What happens if we don't, and they stay?' |
momo, you'll find that a fair few of the 'popular' EK instagrammers are on the company payroll- if not actually being paid, getting perks in return for posting about how amazing it is.
I would take it with a pinch of salt. One of the more... how shall I put this... 'selfie obssessed' CC instagrammers who regularly says how amazing the EK life is, actually couldn't wait to leave the job after 6 months and was banging on about how much they hated the pax and the job was beneath them... until said crew realised that posting about how glam their life at the airline was would start netting them promo flights, press freebies and expensive gifts from 'admirers'... the account is now little more than blatant cross promotion and photos that would get anyone else posting them fired. EK has a stable of CC and FC 'grammers who basically get free reign to post whatever so long as it portrays the company and the job in a positive light (while not being able to post about anything negative) It's all part of the promo machine |
momo... don't get me wrong, I like it here at EK. BUT.... what you see on Instagram is pretty far from the truth. You can make EK and DXB work for you, but coming here and buying fancy cars isn't the way to do it. It might be fun for a few years, but when the shine wears off and you only have a couple of dirhams to your name, then reality is going to set in. I think a lot of new joiners are going to learn that lesson the hard way.
If you want to make it your career goal to come and work for EK then good on you, but I hope you are doing it for the right reasons :) |
Quick question guys, I have almost 3000 hours on the A320, do someone knows what are the chances of being send to the 777?
This may sound stupid, but do HR ask you if you have a "Favorite" aircraft? Regards. |
They will assign you to any fleet they need you at the moment. Many guys with airbus experience are in boeing fleet.
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How times have changed when cadets, not even holding a freshly minted ATPL, are at the stage where they are Emirates hopefuls.
Things have certainly changed and those posts prove it. |
It does seem an ok job for the short term, live for the moment type lifestyle.
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Exactly that, Tango.
Unfortunately, Emirates (and most other airlines, to be fair) are run by HR bean counters who are entirely focussed on chasing this years results, cost cutting target and bonus payment. There is therefore no difference as far as they are concerned between a 1500 hour ATPL pilot and a 20000 hour ATPL pilot. Same licence and each can only produce 900 factored hours a year towards the bottom line. You and I know that is a very dangerous policy to follow but, hey, its legal. I have nothing against inexperience at all, we were all there once, but if you lower the recruitment experience bar as much as Emirates has (rather than increase terms and conditions to maintain experience levels) then not only are there reduced experience levels coming into the airline but the decreasing terms, conditions and qol drive many experienced pilots (and many not so experienced too) out of the company. When incidents then happen on the line the management fix is to penalise the entire remaining workforce with no notice line checks, etc etc rather than deal with individuals in a fair and just manner - thereby driving yet more experience out of the company. We currently have 12 B777 parked at DWC but even with this reduction in capacity, crewing are constantly calling pilots who are on days off to ask if they will give up their day off and fly. Factor in the ongoing evictions throughout DSO and the introduction of GST in a couple of months time and I can see things getting a whole lot worse if Emirates management does not alter course. |
I am generally pretty close to the legal limits these days with regard to 1 in 7 and 2 in 14. I would rarely be able to give up a day off and fly legally. With so many aircraft grounded and yet pilots flying so much and close to limits, it begs the question as to what would happen if they suddenly needed these aircraft to fly again.
When things are not working then you need to do something about it and change. That's why pilots are leaving. To stop the attrition the other side of the equation, EK, needs to change or we continue the downward spiral. |
Just applied to emirates
So guys, little help here, I applied a week ago and oh boy were they fast in reacting. They called me early in the morning. I have about 5 K hours, still a rightseater on 320s. I mainly want the wide body experience and get the upgrade there hopefully. To date, I don’t know anything about Emirates. It was on a whim I applied and they have been frantic. I didn’t do the video interview. They said it s ok, we ll fast track you. Now I have got all this scary package of assessment process. I feel like a test subject. I was on upgrade tract but things seem to have slowed down for now and I was thinking instead of waiting another 5 years or so to fly wide body, I could go to them gulf companies to fly more on the right and eventually get the left seat proper. Now I am not so sure. I see so many negative posts, I think I am gonna continue my semi-miserable f/o life here, things will turn up hopefully and I ll get an upgrade.
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Originally Posted by viperburns
(Post 9944469)
So guys, little help here, I applied a week ago and oh boy were they fast in reacting. They called me early in the morning. I have about 5 K hours, still a rightseater on 320s. I mainly want the wide body experience and get the upgrade there hopefully. To date, I don’t know anything about Emirates. It was on a whim I applied and they have been frantic. I didn’t do the video interview. They said it s ok, we ll fast track you. Now I have got all this scary package of assessment process. I feel like a test subject. I was on upgrade tract but things seem to have slowed down for now and I was thinking instead of waiting another 5 years or so to fly wide body, I could go to them gulf companies to fly more on the right and eventually get the left seat proper. Now I am not so sure. I see so many negative posts, I think I am gonna continue my semi-miserable f/o life here, things will turn up hopefully and I ll get an upgrade.
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Originally Posted by viperburns
(Post 9944469)
So guys, little help here, I applied a week ago and oh boy were they fast in reacting. They called me early in the morning. I have about 5 K hours, still a rightseater on 320s. I mainly want the wide body experience and get the upgrade there hopefully. To date, I don’t know anything about Emirates. It was on a whim I applied and they have been frantic. I didn’t do the video interview. They said it s ok, we ll fast track you. Now I have got all this scary package of assessment process. I feel like a test subject. I was on upgrade tract but things seem to have slowed down for now and I was thinking instead of waiting another 5 years or so to fly wide body, I could go to them gulf companies to fly more on the right and eventually get the left seat proper. Now I am not so sure. I see so many negative posts, I think I am gonna continue my semi-miserable f/o life here, things will turn up hopefully and I ll get an upgrade.
What I suggest you is do what you think is the best for your family or carrier or whatever is your top priority Don’t do it base in pprune comments, in 30 years I herd ALWAYS people complaining for somthing Maybe the same people that before joining were flying for couple of thousand dollars on shi..ti planes in shi..ti places Take all this as info then make your choise |
No offence viper but why did you apply if you don't know anything about EK? People coming in here blind is half the reason the place is such a disaster now.
Anyway.... come and do the interview, why not? You'll get a free 4 day trip to DXB. See if you like it. Then go home, you will have about 2-4 weeks to think about it before you get a YES or NO e-mail anyway. So plenty of time to discuss with the wife or whatever. Good luck |
Moving to the Middle East “IS NOT” only a career change, “IT IS” a lifestyle change for the whole family.
Be aware that if the family are not happy with moving here then your career move will be a bad choice as you will return to your country, perhaps in a worse place than where you left with a family who are now less settled everywhere. It’s not just you and your career, it’s the culture, education and happiness of your family you have to consider the most. For those without family’s, there are plenty of unattached girls here but then you are potentially locking yourself here for 10 plus years to get your command and potentially a foreign wife with added complications. Moving to the ME should be your primary consideration and flying the Big shiny stuff second. As an Airbus pilot it is very likely you would end up on the 777 at this time. Why have EK jumped at your application, that is an answer you have to answer and understand why you are not in a long queue of applicants. Good weekend to all J |
I would airbus to airbus . Still can't get enough on the 380!
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Originally Posted by jack schidt
As an Airbus pilot it is very likely you would end up on the 777 at this time.
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This week an FO hinted that the bottom of the pile on the 4 are being considered for a move to the light twin, up to 20%!
Rumours roumours J |
Well, I'm still doing 90+ hours a month on the big bus so I don't see how we can lose 1/5 of the pilots on that fleet.
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Almost right, mmmbop, old chum :8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG0ochx16Dg But well put, nevertheless :D
Originally Posted by mmmbop
(Post 9944998)
Viperburns,
Take a look at what you wrote: You don't need to listen to what anybody else says about the place, everything you need to know is in your own post. There are enough indicators for you to be screaming "*Warning Will Robinson, Warning*!!" ;) |
Originally Posted by BigGeordie
(Post 9285273)
I have recently been asked via Private Message if EK is really as bad as it is painted on these pages. Surely people exaggerate or even make things up for their own nefarious ends? It can't be possible for a major international airline- and wannabe major international brand- to behave in such an uncaring and cavalier fashion towards its employees. Can it?
Well, I have plenty of time to write a reply at the moment as I'm on a flight back to Dubai from my home country. I had six days off in a row, which is a reasonably rare event but not unheard of, so I went home for four days. I got downgraded to economy on the way out, despite having a waitlisted ID50 for business class. On the way back there was only one flight in two days where I was fairly confident I would get on at all and this is a destination with three flights per day. This is in late February, not school or public holiday time. Here is the first lesson- do not think it is easy to use staff travel when you do get days off especially with low seniority. Flights are very often full and, especially travelling with a family, it will be a stressful experience. It also starts to get expensive very quickly. Even ID90s are far from free. More observant readers will have noticed that, although I had six days off, I only went home for four. This is because after my days off I am rostered for an ultra long haul flight and the company demands that I be back in Dubai for three full nights before such a duty. It is very common to have such flights rostered after a block of days off and it can often completely prevent travel. It is worth mentioning that the majority of pilots I have spoken too believe that the company's interpretation of the flight time limitations is not correct and there is no legal need to be in Dubai so early. However, only the company's interpretation matters and it is not negotiable. This is lesson two- having days off does not mean you are free of the demands of the company. It is also worth mentioning at this point that the company, being a government entity, does not have to follow any employment laws. Even in Dubai, where the employment laws tend to be biased in favour of employers, that is worth having a good think about but before you sign up. My wife decided to stay at home for a couple of weeks. Or possibly months. As she pointed out, I am only actually in Dubai for 12 “useful” days in March. “Useful” means days when I have not just got back from a long flight at 6am and am either in bed or exhausted for the rest of the day. I am flying 100 hours in March and the last three months have all been between 95 and 105, with a similar number of days in Dubai. Not surprisingly my spouse is getting sick of effectively living on her own as I am often away for five or six days at a time. Everyone's marriage is different and I leave it up to you to speculate on the effect living like this is likely to have on yours. Lesson three. The job is a marriage wrecker. The irony is a lot of people bring their families to Dubai for a better life, then never see them. Or the wife gets sick of being a one parent family and goes back home. With your children. You will see them even less then- see lesson 1. I actually did relatively well for leave this year and got some of what I wanted. However, I still have 7 days of “forced leave” allocated by the company at a time of year I certainly wouldn't have chosen. This 7 day block finishes only three weeks before a period of leave I actually asked for. I have no doubt, based on past experience, that I will be flying for 90 hours during the month when I have this week “off”. As that is almost a normal month's roster the leave is actually only the days off for the month compressed together. Lesson four and five- you don't choose when your holiday is, the company does and it isn't really holiday at all as you still do the same amount of work that month. Working here, you are tired and jet lagged. Constantly. When I joined Emirates, just over a decade ago, I left a secure job at a reputable European airline. Indeed, I was just coming up for my wide body command there. Nobody I spoke to at the time, either inside or outside Emirates, thought it was a bad idea. This was one of the best jobs to have in aviation in terms of both lifestyle and salary. Indeed some people in my previous company were positively envious. Now, I doubt any pilot inside Emirates would give an unqualified yes to the question, “Should I apply?” The sixth and final (for now) lesson. If you join today the terms and conditions you experience will be the best you will get for your time here. In ten plus years I can't think of anything I could honestly say has improved. Other posts have mentioned the rampant inflation (and, coming soon, VAT- for an instant 5% pay cut) and the difficulty of saving on an F/O salary. So there you go. No, we aren't making it up. Almost all of the posts are true and when somebody does post something that is completely wrong somebody else will correct it pretty quickly. After all this is the internet! |
Originally Posted by fatbus
(Post 9286222)
Upgrades are taking longer and longer. some pilots are now realizing , more so on the 777, that they need attrition in order to upgrade. Hence the sky is falling on Pprune.
Last month 70k in the bank , company housing, OT, TRI pay, 13 days off. Close to 15 years , exit plan not because of EK or Dubai but because the money bucket almost full. |
Salamalecom. Not busy in Costa today I guess. Please go back to third floor where you no doubt do your best to look busy and important.
I’m back in DXB for a few days, come down to the Irish village for a beer and a pork chop. |
salamalamala... ...try to not make it so obvious.
Beers and pork chops sound pretty good right about now. |
Are most of the guys in the EK’s cockpits as negative as people here? I understand that terms and conditions are falling down at the increasing rate but it must be challenging to share the flightdeck with the guy who moans about the company for 9+ hours.
P.S. for some pilots EK, even with all its flaws, is a much much better place than those airlines they work for. |
It actually IS the company’s responsibility to please you or guess what happens? You leave.
Pay me or trade me. Please me or I’ll walk. There is a severe pilot shortage in case you have your head up your arse. There is such a massive difference in Delta and Emirates. Everyone tries and helps each other and also to help the company. It is such a refreshing change after 3 years of hell at Emirates. I know not everyone can work in the states but there are airlines that treat their employees right and you should try and work there. You will be so much better off in your paycheck and your psyche. The only wish is that I got to leave the sand sooner. Salamalecon highlights everything wrong with Emirates and the Middle East. It is not all like that outside of EK. I don’t know where he come from. |
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