Emirates - The most unprofessional airlines ever
 

Hello peeps,

Just wanted all share this incident that happened with me and a few other pilots with Emirates. This is definitely not the airlines anyone should join in the near future. There is no respect for pilots in the company and the management will skin you alive here. AT ALL COSTS STAY AWAY FROM EMIRATES.
I was invited for the screening for Dubai and i was told i will be given a online visa by Abdul Fahdil and his incompetent team of HR. Till my date of travel i didn't receive any visa or anything and as you are aware we pilots barely manage to get leave for any such screening from our present airlines it was all a waste. The only reply i got from that douchebag was this, "Hi,
Thank you for your e-mail. I am currently out-of-office (weekend) and will not be able to check my emails till Sunday. For candidates wishing to cancel their interview please also write to Premier Inn and cancel the room booking.
Thank you and Best Regards,
Abdul Fadhil
Flight Operations
Group Recruitment
Emirates Airline & Group". I must have mailed him atleast 5 times around 10 days from the date of travel that you haven't sent me the visa and the only reply i get from his is this ******* auto reply. This clearly shows that emirates doesn't care for pilots or they are either jealous of them. Another guy got selected in emirates went home and resigned from his company after 15 days gets a mail from emirates saying that sorry to inform you haven't been selected now. When the pilot asks for a reason the standard reply you get from them is emirates doesn't give any reasons. Anyways emirates is the lowest paid airlines in the middle east with poor rosters and a ****all management for pilots. If you want to feel what a prison is like sure come and join them or else stay away from this ****hole.

Emirates - The most unprofessional airlines ever
 

Well, that pretty much sums up the organizational side of things at EK.

Sorry that you got messed about.

If you're happy at your present gig treat it as a sign that it was never meant to be.

The HR side of recruitment has always been a total mess. Abdul probably went on leave, simple as that. They're as bad as the Accommodation Dept, perhaps worse.

Welcome to Emirates and Hello Tomorrow.

So why did you apply for the job in the first place???

After the phone call that you've been selected you get an email stating to wait with resigning from your current employer till you have the contract from Emirates

As someone mentioned the accommodation department with which I had an incredible adventure few years ago that developed into one of the biggest **** up aviation will remember and that ultimately costed me an incredible price in professional, economical and personal terms I kindly ask you if anyone on this forum pilot or cabin crew is willing to share privately if he had any dealings with Government building in Al Hudeiba and the infamous water pumps sitting on the roof.
My lawyer would particularly interested on the experience of a South African FO already resigned from EK that remained in the very same apartment for just one night before returning to temporary accommodation due to the same mental insanity inducing noise and vibrations I endured for 16 months with my newly married wife. That experience turned our till then happy life into a open eye nightmare with dire consequences.I would also like to mention the complete and crass incompetence of the EK clinic that notwithstanding clear evidence managed to miss a potentially life threatening pathology. They probably were too busy investigating my mental sanity :eek:( that themselves put actually in jeopardy ) and managing my anger. :ugh:
Kafka could not have invented such a plot..my compliments EK management.
I'm being doing my part to raise awareness in regards of the complete lack of protection you suffer in being an EK employee and how helplessly you are the mercy of imbeciles managers in an almost complete legal vacuum. I would say that my work is paying off.. and I will continue as long as I will get compensation..one way or the other.
I take to occasion to inform Mr. Talking Horse of the following : the day will come.

Well...well
 

Finally, someone who saw past the smoke and mirrors and saw past the bull****. For all you who prefer to bury facts with fiction...take note!

You don't have to stay in Company Accomodation
 

furbpilot

Surely you could have just moved into the accommodation of your choice and taken the allowance. If you were newly married we assume you had now children. It isn't difficult to find a nice apartment in Dubai.

Had you been in a company vill I may get it but come on it's just an apartment was it worth your career?

Don't get me wrong both FZ anded have issues regarding the treatment of their staff but things like this are everyday occurrences in Dubai. No one does what they meant to, when they are meant to. the idea is that after a few years here you get it an just ignore the minutiae and get on with the enjoyable bits and take this as the fact that you aren't in Europe and this is part of the cost.

They don't care either way, you leave they just get another pilot. So the only people who lost were you and your wife.

Thing..wow you are so smart in finding solutions ain't yo?
Unfortunately back in those days( Dubai melt down) the allowance was from a certain point in time given only to whom was to buy an apartment and not to rent one.
It started retroactively by one week from the date I made the request for the allowance.No surprise you start to become a tad paranoid. The place is ran on it.:ugh:
I had no frikking plan to buy a single brick in the crumbling sand castle and that was not what was written on my contract.
Leaving a safe job in Europe to go to McDonalds Airlines proved the worst error..a fatal one.

All this reading has baffled me. So this is what is going on behind the "Fly Emirates Keep Discovering" airline. :eek:

I would really appreciate it if more pilots would share their experiences.

Sigh......:ugh:

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:mate where have you been ? :-P

Clearly dis-ilyushined! :)

I don't believe that some one could actually write that.:ugh::ugh:

TK over EK really?
 

Furb pilot

Well call me a bluff old traditionalist but we have a marvellous saying from home, 'Where there is a will there is a way!'

If you are being passed over for command, if you are being held back as an instructor, if your career is being fouled and the chain supports the perpetrators then I see cause. If you you are not being paid what you are meant to get in the contract, when you are meant to get it, then I also see cause.

However people coming on and whinging about having to work too hard, having to sit about on standby for longer, having to do medicals on days off or as in your case because the apartment didn't suit need their heads testing.

Personally and likely because I haven't had it easy. I am grateful if I get paid at the end of the month, can feed my family and have any form of future. So something like a noisy apartment. I would just move somewhere else, regardless of cost as being unemployed or having to work for someone like THY in your case does not make for a better situation than living in Dubai.

But hey you chose to leave, and that is your right so it's not like you stayed and whinged about it but I'm betting you didn't help your command prospects much by going to THY.

I sum your decision making process up as I would rather be at THY than UAE errm ok think we don't have that much to talk about then.

Glad it worked out so well for you!

Vortex , because you have "had it hard" and just happy to be paid at the end of the month is also your choice . Frankly , this seems to be the very attitude that has served to collectively lower the bar in this profession .

If any part of an agreement is not upheld , it is an issue . It is not just about money for most I would believe .

I can live with it here, cause i do not
regard it as home. Never did, never will. Never!

I've chosen the expat life, because i had no other choice..

I opted out from the beginning, took the allowance and added it to my
salary. Beach view, pool, marina night life, why not.

120.000AED for the 2BR appartement, rest in my pocket.

Mini Airbus rosters were horrible, i was fatigued in a way
i never experienced before in my life.
Maxi Airbus rosters are fine for the moment, it's like flying
for another company within the company.

Wife is here, flies home at least once a month to visit the family
and i do the same. Coming from Europe
it is not always easy but manageable.

I decided to join EK with all it's pros and cons, cause i
will not stay forever anyway. I just fly the roster and take
the money. It's way more than at home, and way less than
it should be. They know it, they will never change it, and i know that.

They could do so much for us to make us a happy workforce.
Most of the stuff would be for free and easy to change.
They will not do it, never ever.

For me it still works because of the above mentioned reasons.

For many of my friends it would not work and
I tell them not to join. I warned them that they will become
unhappy within hours of joining.

Most of my friends have similar problems in
other countries with other airlines.
EVERY place has it's downsides, the grass only appears
to be better, but it isn't i suppose.

Dubai can be tough sometimes so be prepared.
Everything you read about it on this site is true!

If you think you could deal with it than go for it.
If you have any concerns about you and your wife and kids
being here, than i suggest not to come here.

Even in my short period of time things have changed, everything
became more difficult.
I will stay as long as it still works for me and the mrs, and leave as soon as it doesn't anymore.

@Stone Cold. You're spot on mate. Couldn't have summed up the demise of this profession better. Too many people willing to fly for food if you know what I mean.

Jay-sus. Like a whipped dog. Not exactly setting the bar very high, are you now?

"Come fly for Emirates. You even get paid."

It really is not hard to figure out why the industry is in the toilet when you see expectations as low as these.

Vortex is the most pathetic person on prune and certainty has the worst post I have ever read.
I really hope you are not a pilot Vortex. Not wonder our profession isn't what it used to be with "men" like you.

Thing.. Stone a Strato say you are the perfect example of what the problem with this profession seems to be today. People unwilling to stand up for their basic rights, over displaying gratitude, all flattered just for getting food on their table, for having "some sort" of future, self centered, uninterested of others, self serving.
But aren't you are providing a qualified professional service and giving non renewable time to a company that in exchange pays your dues?
They are not making you a favor my friend you are, to them, first.
Or you really have such a low opinion of your self and the whole category ?
Dubai is simply a place not really meant for human habitation and you cannot compare with a city with thousands of years of history center of two empires like Istanbul populated by real people with real lives surrounded by an incredibly rich culture.
I did enjoy the professional part of my Dubai experience and I did my best with the rest but it was a vain effort. I do pretty much enjoy my life in Istanbul and I do my best to give my contribution to the big changes and growth on their way.
A tad late I must admit..but hope you will be relieved knowing I'm on my upgrade course at the moment. I did have to fight for it and it was sure not easy. I did it for me and for others and we at least partially solved the problem..looking for further improvements. I did the same for my basic right to have a bit of serenity for my newly formed family in my contractual company provided accommodation in Dubai..I ended up in front of Syrian psychiatrist and endured a Calvary that I do not wish my worst enemy. Well..at least I'm certified mentally sane:ok:

I have to quote this for truth and admiration.

I didn't know inquiring about something you did not know was officially a very serious crime on the forum :uhoh:. Some of us are new to the profession perhaps? :*

Do they actually send you a visa? Used to be 'visa on arrival' and there was a specified desk to deal with it, but that was a while ago. Just asking.

Vortex is an EK managment dream pilot....as long as we give him enough money for food every month, we can do anything we like to him.

It's no wonder the airline that should be the greatest job in the world is in the mess it is.

Parabellum. "Visa on arrival" only for select countries. For the majority of countries of the world, prior visa required. Been that way for as long as I remember.

V Thing, if it's that bad maybe consider going to Maydaydan and wash cars on your XX days for extra ca$h.

Most posts on this thread seem to have been encrypted.

halas

Touch a Nerve did we
 

I think several posters above have gotten the wrong end of the stick in their haste to bash anyone who doesn't hate Dubai.

It appears many of you think that you should go out on strike when the brand of water is changed in the cockpit. I am not advocating the contracts not being adhered to, I am not advocating relentless changes in Ts&Cs, I am also not saying that it is okay to not give contractual entitlements.

What I am saying is that furbpilot had a job. What many would consider and excellent job. He choose to leave that job rather than move apartments.

I am saying where you live versus career = not a great trade.

Re contracts of course you should get what you are entitled to. He was entitled to an apartment, he had one! How does that make me wrong!

I am happy to get paid because I have been in airlines where they don't give you anything you signed up for. His current airline based in what he calls a rich cultural city is a good example. THY don't pay what is in the contract, they don't give you what you are entitled to and Dubai versus Istanbul is a hands down win for Dubai from my perspective every time. Taxi drivers in Dubai may get lost but they mostly speak some English. Aden and Sanaa have lots of culturally historic buildings I don't see us rushing there. Living in Istanbul was nice for the odd night out, most of the time it was a nightmare and waiting for the next accident to happen from an operational point whilst living in domestic conditions of squalor with no useful amenities (certainly for me) at the hands of tragic ineptness which makes the Dubai banks look like Lloyds of London and administrative practises that date back to the 1700s.

How many expat pilots have moved their families to IST and how many expat families live in DXB. Why does furbpilot think that 350,000 Western Expats live in Dubai if life here is so terrible. Personally I love living in Dubai, in fact I prefer it to living at home in UK which is why I am here!

Dubai and the airline are not one and the same thing. So much so that even were I to leave the airline I would commute from wherever else I worked to Dubai rather than relocate my family.

So Stone Cold, no limit, SOPs and Outatowner. The answer is simple yes if you give me enough money you can do whatever the hell you want with me as money IS all that matters. Money solves all the other issues, such as accommodation, pension, travel, family, etc if you get paid enough you can deal with all of these yourself. I for one don't care if they fly me 900hrs every year. It's their job to maximise the return on their investment (i.e. me). Its my job to do whatever they want me to as long as they give me what they say they are going to.

So 92hrs a month fine, 5yr bond, 10yr bond, hell bond for life also fine. Bond for upgrade fine, 900hrs a year fine, time in the bunk not paid, fine, hell you can even have my soul. As long as my family are safe, the money goes in the bank and if you kill me they get the life insurance. Anything else is a bonus.

Work is more important than me. My family is more important than me. In fact the least important thing is me full stop. I call that duty to my family and being a professional.

Whinging when my apartment isn't what I wanted and thinking that being at THY is better than being at EK well if thats the case then the statistics will likely back it up in the end. As of today I don't think they do.

I know that not everyone in Dubai is happy here. Last I checked you're welcome to take furbpilots route out to go to a "better" option in your own time. That however does give Cerbus the right to call me pathetic. Pathetic is someone who snipes by calling names, cannot construct an argument using pros and cons of what is being said and calls someone names just because they disagree with someones right to say whatever the hell they like. If you disagree fine but personal insults because someone doesn't share your politics I think define who the pathetic person on this forum is.

Small point Vortex, ( and I stand to be corrected), but I think you will find that if you went to another job elsewhere ( outside of the UAE ) your family would not be allowed to stay in Dubai.

And I don't how old you are, but I assure you with the way Emirates is currently working people, you won't live long enough to enjoy all the money that is so important to you.

SOPs,

I'm glad you stand to be corrected. There are numerous ways one can stay in Dubai whilst not working for EK, FZ et al.

For starters if you wife happens to be a doctor, lawyer, accountant, teacher, dentist and quite a few others. Then she can sponsor you and the children.

If you own a house in Dubai you can be resident solely based on that.

Lastly you could have two jobs, you can start your own business doing management, IT or even aviation consulting. You can get visas based on that.

As for the money. I don't work to earn money so that I can spend it. I don't care about the money. I have pretty much everything that I want already. I care about the experiences to be had in life such as nice holidays with my family but everything else I really don't care that much about as I have it already.

However I do care about flying planes. If I had $10million. I would spend it buying planes and flying them myself.

I only need money as it gives my family the things that they need. So I don't care if I die as my family get the life insurance. If I live then they get my salary. Seems like a win win to my family from my perspective.

Vortex in this profession it is not so much about money as it is work rules. Money is good but without work rules and conditions you get what we got here. Overworked and fatigued pilots.
Lots of airlines pay their pilots at the end of the month but that doesn't make them a good airline or one that is desirable to work for.

Maslow!
 

Alconguin

Of course it doesn't. I am hardly new to this profession.

In the same way that you can buy a Skoda or Lykan Hypersport and it will still get you from A to B. In the same way that you can eat in a Michelin Starred restaurant or eat street food and not die of starvation. If of course follows that there is more than work to getting paid!!!

Good old Maslow's pyramid comes to mind. My point is not that getting paid is the end state but that getting paid is far more rare than many and perhaps you think?

It is the conditions and execution of the contractual obligations OVER & ABOVE the pay that do indeed differentiate the good from the bad. We can have an existence or we can enjoy our lives because of those differences.

The point being raised by furbpilot was that he would rather leave what he had here to go to THY. Where the Ts&Cs are ignored and you are not even paid what was on your contract. I care more about good wifi and good a/c in my hotel room than about the quality of the swimming pool others may say the opposite. The same follows for life in Istanbul versus Dubai. However the proof is in the pudding and more expats come here than Istanbul so feel vindicated by this alone.

That said just because the majority of people do something, of course does not mean that it is correct, right or fair so it is not a winnable argument suffice to say I think anyone who would rather be at TK than EK is certifiable but that is MY opinion and not a fact. (something Cerebus would likely call some name or other)

I think the thread started with how unprofessional the airline is and furby decided to come in with his example of not liking his accommodation as proof of that.

I there come back to the thread point and my point. The ME pays well and gives good benefits, benefits that many other airlines do not even come near to and with opportunities that simply do not exist for many of us in our homes countries (14-18yrs to command on B777 at BA or Virgin) come to mind. If that means that everyone has to put up with some fatigue and even overwork. I personally am happy to kill myself for my career and to provide for my family.

Sorry but work life balance is all pinko lefty rubbish. I don't care how long and hard I work or if it kills me. I just want my family to have the cost of my blood, sweat and tears. Desirable for me doesn't have to be the same for you. However it has to be enough to keep the planes flying as when it becomes so undesirable than no one wants to work here that is when they have clearly gotten the hiring policy or retention policy (stifled laugh) wrong.

This doesn't make me a management wet dream it makes me a realist. The world doesn't care how valuable we think we are, the world doesn't care what we think, the world doesn't owe us a living so if China, Ryanair, Asia et al draw al the pilots away and EK, FZ, etc become the next Ghost Ship airlines then they will simply have to reconsider or become extinct.

For now though, you're here. I'm here and until we find something better or it kills us thems our apples.

Ok Vortex, fair enough. You enjoy flying aircraft, regardless of the conditions, and if it kills you, that's fine, because your family has your life insurance.

I am enjoying not flying aircraft anymore. Because I would like to spend a few years with my family, enjoy my children, grandchildren, my dogs and most importantly my wife, before I die.

I will let the argument rest.

Hope your wife and kids are happy with that arrangement! Enough money but no quality time with their husband/father. No wonder kids in this world are so screwed up. It's not the money kids want - it's time with you! If you can't give them the time - your money is going to be a poor replacement.
Really? Still a little young are we? Let's give you (and your family) a couple of years.
(Actually it does. It's also the reason the situation in the ME won't improve.)

I would comment on vortex's other statements, but they're simply too numerous and too stupid to dwell on.

I find it worrying the amount of times that Vortex says he doesn't care if he dies for his job. Surely you're worth more than a job?

I fully agree and empathise that family, and experiences with your family come first. But there is a happy medium. Dying for your work, or being happy to be a slave seem a bit extreme....

In any case, all the best to you and your family!

Ashes to Ashes
 

Nope I'm not worth more than a job.

The cemetery is full of people who thought they were. You as a human being are only worth what you put in the bank last month. If you can't provide your love and caring won't feed or clothe your family, pay the school fees or pay the mortgage.

I am happy to be a slave to my family. If I cannot provide for them then I have no business being a husband and a father. If I sell them short and do not give them what I promised to provide then I fail them and as such am worthless. Period

Yes, I find Vortex's repeated references to his own death deeply troubling as well. I think the aviation shrinks would have a field day with this chap.

Now Vortex, I am a bit worried about you. You think you are only worth what you put in the bank last month? You really think that is your total worth in life?

I am concerned for your self worth.

In fact thinking about it, I'm worried about your mental health.

May be it's time to review some overrated values such as " family". In the country and region of my father they still kill for " la famiglia".... An ideal society would not force someone to prostitute himself to feed his family like Vortex seemst to be doing..

Or perhaps Vortex is a troll. I hope he is in a way, his acceptance of death worries me.