Death and danger is what you are paid for...seriously???????

I thiought avoiding death and danger is what you are paid for.

If you are really a TRE, I seriously hope you are noy telling new ( or for that matter any) trainees....'Death and danger is what we are paid for son '

You are an airline pilot for goodness sake...not 007.

:}

You see, Vortex, thanking me in public "for supporting you" is a pure emotional manipulation because I didn't "support" you (support in what?? why do you need a support? are you fighting against something? did you present a point of view different than extremely egocentric one - "I have to feed my family"?), I just made it clear that I understood some of your statements which others found disturbing.:)

Vortex,

If anything you've said it's true you should be trying to get a job at Hainan, living in China and making 21.5k per month. If you aren't actively pursuing that then all you've said is bs.

Vortex,

Just to confirm..... because you seem to be quite 'troll like' in your clever avoidance of correcting the incorrect assumptions made by others in this forum..

Are you an EK pilot?

Are you Right or Left seat?

B

No, no..wait a second...
All the talk of death, destruction, self sacrifice, coming back to rescue people..
Are you a fireman, Vortex?

Vortex, you are a typical example of the Helsinki Syndrome :


Life has more to offer than death

Get help!

Boww.. I believe he is Fly Dubai . Capt

Why did Francesco Schettino get 16yrs again?
 

Boww - I'm not avoiding anything. You ask me a question and it fits the bounds of the forum then I'll happily answer it. What Stone cold said is correct.

Glo - due diligence! Read what I have actually said not what you think I said. Money and family security are not a perceived benefit they are very real and tangible benefits.

MosE - That is not as far away a possibilty as you may think. It is one of the options I am looking at.

Nikita - Not emotion. I don't do those much. Just fact. How can wanting to feed your family at whatever cost to yourelf be egocentric? Surely it is the opposite.
Re the newbies. If one joins and if one feels depressed, tired, trapped, abused then they either overcome their environemtn and become stronger, remove themselves from the environ if unable to overcome or inevitably they will break. Isn't that just basic stress management?

Sink or swim basically. Life doesn't care if you can handle it or feel it is fair. Results are results, cash is cash and talking the talk is nice but we all know that walking the walk is more important.

Snake man - why don't you ask your wife

SOPs - Yes of course death and danger are PART of what we are paid for. It is. What is the cabin crews primary role is it getting em out in 90 secs or tea and coffee. I remember officers who were at the academy with me who didn't get that they were simply there as the motto says to 'Serve to lead'

Doctors try to save life but accept tha patients die. Lawyers try and win cases but loose some. Teachers try and teach their students but do not always succeed. Pilots avoid death and danger by good application of thier skills drills and your name! However when things go wrong and Murphy's law says statisitcally that they will you have to choose. So you sign up for it but you are expected to do your duty if it comes to it.

Unless you are an Italian Ships Captain that is!

I also never said I was a TRE, not there yet. I said being one is more valuable than material things to me. I was trying to explain my value scale to further help those who canot fully see the my viewpoint. Doesn't mean they have to agree just understand what I am saying and choose to digest or ignore.

This is after all a forum where we should be able to respectfully state our opinions. Unless you are snake man of course.

Snake man you trying to engage in a battle of wits is reminiscent of taking a bayonet to a tank battle you are not suitably equipped.

Ah, there is a kind of altruism which doesn't involve love? :} Ok.

Simple. It's your family and you benefit from it.

It's an awful position to consciously put one human being in. Are you sure you are an altruist? :)

Thank you Vortex for highlighting the importance of choices and the consequences those choices bring forth. I for one respect your choice of placing your career above everything. :cool:

I mean it in a good way. :ok:

Vortex

Most, if not all of us, have made sacrifices to help our families live a better life. We witness the extreme side of that argument every day when we see Indian/Bangladeshi men working 12 hour days, 6 days a week in 40 degree plus heat for $200 a month. How they manage to send home half of that to feed their families is a minor miracle but a miracle their families are no doubt grateful for. We are, whether we like it or not, merely doing the same thing, only considerably higher up the food chain. Our salaries, despite what some would like to portray on these forums, is in fact bloody good.

However, while I accept your desire to provide a high standard of support to those around you, just ask yourself one question. If you drop dead tomorrow from your continuous hard work, who will be there to shed a tear over your coffin as it's lowered into the Earth. Not your bosses and certainly not their bosses. Your demise will have lasted a mere few seconds in their thoughts as they continue to entertain clients and Russian girls every weekend on that huge yacht you often see moored out from the Marina. The same yacht and lifestyle you helped provide for while your own family is left devastated.

Whilst your widow may well thank you for the insurance payout, your children will certainly not. Don't look back in 20 years from now and regret missing the one and only opportunity you have to be with the most valuable asset in your life. Them.

Money provides material wealth. Health and happiness provide a wealth that is priceless.

'The clock of life is wound but once
And no man has the power
To tell just when that clock will stop
At late or early hour.

Now is the only time we have
So live, love and toil with will
Place no faith in tomorrow
For the clock may then be still!'

Harry

Very wise words, and they are so true....

All the money in the world cannot replace the smile of your children when you come home from a long trip..

Enjoy life, it's the only one we have

Damn nice post, Harry. :ok:

Harry very wise words. Unfortunately there is a part of this category that seems perfectly fitted to be screwed and taken away the best part of their life in exchange for simple monetary benefit. I would call it a background or cultural deficit . It makes people easy prays as they have no other values. They normally understand when is too late...

Simple Maslow Let's Revisit It
 

Those of you posting platitudes to Harry's post. Miss the point. You make it seem like you can have both! I mostly agree with Harry's sentiment.

No one is saying they don't want to see their children's smiles. No one doesn't want to see their family. It is simply that IF AND ONLY IF you have to choose between having ONE or the other....


Then the choice HAS to be money IMHO as all the love, smiles and hugs in the world will not suffice when you parents have sent you to a rubbish school, and you are at Scunthorpe Polytechnic reading Underwaterbasketweavology.

WANT = Something that you have when the basics have been covered
NEED = The basics

Look up Maslow!

No one is saying not to spend time, love , nurture, family, etc, etc it is simply the case that I am saying it is higher up the pyramid than cold hard cash and to that end it is more important.

furbpilot's implication is that obviously myself and anyone who thinks like me is incorrect and will see the error of our ways later in life. How arrogant is that!!!

If he had said, 'Well I see his point and I disagree.' Then I could give him some leeway but like I said before anyone who would rather work for THY and live in IST than DXB is never going to be the sort of person reasonable enough to admit that this is a big arse planet and guess what we are all different in our wants and needs.

Otherwise everyone you know would go skiing and no one would go climbing or everyone would aspire to be a pilot or want the same wife. They don't. SO newsflash some people work 3 jobs to send their kids to private schools some who are millionaires send their kids to the local state school.

I would want to be as large a part of my family's life as possible but that is a very distant 2nd want to giving them the correct start in life, the things that they need and the money that they need to get there.

I don't come first. It really isn't that hard a concept. That is unless you have no sense of duty and think that your needs are more important than your family's real needs not wants.

Would you also go into debt to achieve this?

I think Harry was implying that BALANCE is important. I want an income to support my family and I want to be there WITH them as well.

So I understand both Vortex's point and Harry's argument.

There is a spectrum that ranges from all work/no life or time to no work/all time and each person and family has a different point on that line that is acceptable and appropriate.

The problem with EK, in mine and many others peoples opinion, is that EK has 'stolen' that balance. The increased our flying by almost 20% with no compensation. Even if they were to pay us for that time, for me, I would prefer to fly 80 hours and not earn the overtime. For me the, that it is where the balance between life and work exists. Others may well be happy working 90 plus hours a month for the OT. Of course, we are working those hours for NO overtime which makes the situation even worse.

All of this of course overshadows the main point and that is that 90 hours plus a month of the type of flying EK does is simply dangerous. It is not sustainable. Most pilots can see that and feel it. A few newer captains have said to me that they seem to be handling it but they have been flying those hours only for a year. Give it a few more and we will see!

They are pushing EVERY department to the breaking point and I fear that it will soon break and we are in a business that when it does break that people may well die.

I have said this before, but I will say it again. I can't believe how much better I feel not flying. 92 hours a month, back of the clock through multiple time zones simply is not good for you. I believe, it will kill you in the medium to long term.
And Emirates won't care.

Look after yourself and your families everyone.

I don't think any airline cares, let alone EK. Unions force some to pay attention though.

It's a business, that's all there is to it. If one cannot manage, leave the profession.

I've accumulated nearly 25 000 hours, am nearing 'the end', but still enjoy this way of life.