I have to quote this for truth and admiration.

I didn't know inquiring about something you did not know was officially a very serious crime on the forum :uhoh:. Some of us are new to the profession perhaps? :*

Do they actually send you a visa? Used to be 'visa on arrival' and there was a specified desk to deal with it, but that was a while ago. Just asking.

Vortex is an EK managment dream pilot....as long as we give him enough money for food every month, we can do anything we like to him.

It's no wonder the airline that should be the greatest job in the world is in the mess it is.

Parabellum. "Visa on arrival" only for select countries. For the majority of countries of the world, prior visa required. Been that way for as long as I remember.

V Thing, if it's that bad maybe consider going to Maydaydan and wash cars on your XX days for extra ca$h.

Most posts on this thread seem to have been encrypted.

halas

Touch a Nerve did we
 

I think several posters above have gotten the wrong end of the stick in their haste to bash anyone who doesn't hate Dubai.

It appears many of you think that you should go out on strike when the brand of water is changed in the cockpit. I am not advocating the contracts not being adhered to, I am not advocating relentless changes in Ts&Cs, I am also not saying that it is okay to not give contractual entitlements.

What I am saying is that furbpilot had a job. What many would consider and excellent job. He choose to leave that job rather than move apartments.

I am saying where you live versus career = not a great trade.

Re contracts of course you should get what you are entitled to. He was entitled to an apartment, he had one! How does that make me wrong!

I am happy to get paid because I have been in airlines where they don't give you anything you signed up for. His current airline based in what he calls a rich cultural city is a good example. THY don't pay what is in the contract, they don't give you what you are entitled to and Dubai versus Istanbul is a hands down win for Dubai from my perspective every time. Taxi drivers in Dubai may get lost but they mostly speak some English. Aden and Sanaa have lots of culturally historic buildings I don't see us rushing there. Living in Istanbul was nice for the odd night out, most of the time it was a nightmare and waiting for the next accident to happen from an operational point whilst living in domestic conditions of squalor with no useful amenities (certainly for me) at the hands of tragic ineptness which makes the Dubai banks look like Lloyds of London and administrative practises that date back to the 1700s.

How many expat pilots have moved their families to IST and how many expat families live in DXB. Why does furbpilot think that 350,000 Western Expats live in Dubai if life here is so terrible. Personally I love living in Dubai, in fact I prefer it to living at home in UK which is why I am here!

Dubai and the airline are not one and the same thing. So much so that even were I to leave the airline I would commute from wherever else I worked to Dubai rather than relocate my family.

So Stone Cold, no limit, SOPs and Outatowner. The answer is simple yes if you give me enough money you can do whatever the hell you want with me as money IS all that matters. Money solves all the other issues, such as accommodation, pension, travel, family, etc if you get paid enough you can deal with all of these yourself. I for one don't care if they fly me 900hrs every year. It's their job to maximise the return on their investment (i.e. me). Its my job to do whatever they want me to as long as they give me what they say they are going to.

So 92hrs a month fine, 5yr bond, 10yr bond, hell bond for life also fine. Bond for upgrade fine, 900hrs a year fine, time in the bunk not paid, fine, hell you can even have my soul. As long as my family are safe, the money goes in the bank and if you kill me they get the life insurance. Anything else is a bonus.

Work is more important than me. My family is more important than me. In fact the least important thing is me full stop. I call that duty to my family and being a professional.

Whinging when my apartment isn't what I wanted and thinking that being at THY is better than being at EK well if thats the case then the statistics will likely back it up in the end. As of today I don't think they do.

I know that not everyone in Dubai is happy here. Last I checked you're welcome to take furbpilots route out to go to a "better" option in your own time. That however does give Cerbus the right to call me pathetic. Pathetic is someone who snipes by calling names, cannot construct an argument using pros and cons of what is being said and calls someone names just because they disagree with someones right to say whatever the hell they like. If you disagree fine but personal insults because someone doesn't share your politics I think define who the pathetic person on this forum is.

Small point Vortex, ( and I stand to be corrected), but I think you will find that if you went to another job elsewhere ( outside of the UAE ) your family would not be allowed to stay in Dubai.

And I don't how old you are, but I assure you with the way Emirates is currently working people, you won't live long enough to enjoy all the money that is so important to you.

SOPs,

I'm glad you stand to be corrected. There are numerous ways one can stay in Dubai whilst not working for EK, FZ et al.

For starters if you wife happens to be a doctor, lawyer, accountant, teacher, dentist and quite a few others. Then she can sponsor you and the children.

If you own a house in Dubai you can be resident solely based on that.

Lastly you could have two jobs, you can start your own business doing management, IT or even aviation consulting. You can get visas based on that.

As for the money. I don't work to earn money so that I can spend it. I don't care about the money. I have pretty much everything that I want already. I care about the experiences to be had in life such as nice holidays with my family but everything else I really don't care that much about as I have it already.

However I do care about flying planes. If I had $10million. I would spend it buying planes and flying them myself.

I only need money as it gives my family the things that they need. So I don't care if I die as my family get the life insurance. If I live then they get my salary. Seems like a win win to my family from my perspective.

Vortex in this profession it is not so much about money as it is work rules. Money is good but without work rules and conditions you get what we got here. Overworked and fatigued pilots.
Lots of airlines pay their pilots at the end of the month but that doesn't make them a good airline or one that is desirable to work for.

Maslow!
 

Alconguin

Of course it doesn't. I am hardly new to this profession.

In the same way that you can buy a Skoda or Lykan Hypersport and it will still get you from A to B. In the same way that you can eat in a Michelin Starred restaurant or eat street food and not die of starvation. If of course follows that there is more than work to getting paid!!!

Good old Maslow's pyramid comes to mind. My point is not that getting paid is the end state but that getting paid is far more rare than many and perhaps you think?

It is the conditions and execution of the contractual obligations OVER & ABOVE the pay that do indeed differentiate the good from the bad. We can have an existence or we can enjoy our lives because of those differences.

The point being raised by furbpilot was that he would rather leave what he had here to go to THY. Where the Ts&Cs are ignored and you are not even paid what was on your contract. I care more about good wifi and good a/c in my hotel room than about the quality of the swimming pool others may say the opposite. The same follows for life in Istanbul versus Dubai. However the proof is in the pudding and more expats come here than Istanbul so feel vindicated by this alone.

That said just because the majority of people do something, of course does not mean that it is correct, right or fair so it is not a winnable argument suffice to say I think anyone who would rather be at TK than EK is certifiable but that is MY opinion and not a fact. (something Cerebus would likely call some name or other)

I think the thread started with how unprofessional the airline is and furby decided to come in with his example of not liking his accommodation as proof of that.

I there come back to the thread point and my point. The ME pays well and gives good benefits, benefits that many other airlines do not even come near to and with opportunities that simply do not exist for many of us in our homes countries (14-18yrs to command on B777 at BA or Virgin) come to mind. If that means that everyone has to put up with some fatigue and even overwork. I personally am happy to kill myself for my career and to provide for my family.

Sorry but work life balance is all pinko lefty rubbish. I don't care how long and hard I work or if it kills me. I just want my family to have the cost of my blood, sweat and tears. Desirable for me doesn't have to be the same for you. However it has to be enough to keep the planes flying as when it becomes so undesirable than no one wants to work here that is when they have clearly gotten the hiring policy or retention policy (stifled laugh) wrong.

This doesn't make me a management wet dream it makes me a realist. The world doesn't care how valuable we think we are, the world doesn't care what we think, the world doesn't owe us a living so if China, Ryanair, Asia et al draw al the pilots away and EK, FZ, etc become the next Ghost Ship airlines then they will simply have to reconsider or become extinct.

For now though, you're here. I'm here and until we find something better or it kills us thems our apples.

Ok Vortex, fair enough. You enjoy flying aircraft, regardless of the conditions, and if it kills you, that's fine, because your family has your life insurance.

I am enjoying not flying aircraft anymore. Because I would like to spend a few years with my family, enjoy my children, grandchildren, my dogs and most importantly my wife, before I die.

I will let the argument rest.

Hope your wife and kids are happy with that arrangement! Enough money but no quality time with their husband/father. No wonder kids in this world are so screwed up. It's not the money kids want - it's time with you! If you can't give them the time - your money is going to be a poor replacement.
Really? Still a little young are we? Let's give you (and your family) a couple of years.
(Actually it does. It's also the reason the situation in the ME won't improve.)

I would comment on vortex's other statements, but they're simply too numerous and too stupid to dwell on.

I find it worrying the amount of times that Vortex says he doesn't care if he dies for his job. Surely you're worth more than a job?

I fully agree and empathise that family, and experiences with your family come first. But there is a happy medium. Dying for your work, or being happy to be a slave seem a bit extreme....

In any case, all the best to you and your family!

Ashes to Ashes
 

Nope I'm not worth more than a job.

The cemetery is full of people who thought they were. You as a human being are only worth what you put in the bank last month. If you can't provide your love and caring won't feed or clothe your family, pay the school fees or pay the mortgage.

I am happy to be a slave to my family. If I cannot provide for them then I have no business being a husband and a father. If I sell them short and do not give them what I promised to provide then I fail them and as such am worthless. Period

Yes, I find Vortex's repeated references to his own death deeply troubling as well. I think the aviation shrinks would have a field day with this chap.

Now Vortex, I am a bit worried about you. You think you are only worth what you put in the bank last month? You really think that is your total worth in life?

I am concerned for your self worth.

In fact thinking about it, I'm worried about your mental health.

May be it's time to review some overrated values such as " family". In the country and region of my father they still kill for " la famiglia".... An ideal society would not force someone to prostitute himself to feed his family like Vortex seemst to be doing..

Or perhaps Vortex is a troll. I hope he is in a way, his acceptance of death worries me.