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-   -   EK Website has DEC 330 (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/556767-ek-website-has-dec-330-a.html)

motojet 18th Feb 2015 13:57

EK Website has DEC 330
 
I just clicked on the ever present EK ad on PPrune for First Officers. It took me to the group careers website and much to my surprise there is a link for A330 DEC positions, posted today at 1400.
Am I mistaken?

SOPS 18th Feb 2015 14:23

Yep, it's there.

B737SFP 18th Feb 2015 14:40

There's even a fkin AD for the position !

http://i57.tinypic.com/2wdt6ir.png

Feel really sorry for the FOs waiting their turn...

:ugh:

emratty 18th Feb 2015 14:48

All the F/O's who join Emirates know that they hire DEC's it's happened enough times over the years. It's not ideal but if you join as an F/O there is always a risk this will happen.

Fearless Leader 18th Feb 2015 14:54

Feel really sorry for the FOs waiting their turn...
 
Dont feel sorry for them not upgrading, feel sorry that they are stuck on that damn fleet.
Even as Capt, it still stinks.(sux)

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it

sluggums 18th Feb 2015 15:01

Jeez, another nail in the coffin of morale...

GoreTex 18th Feb 2015 15:15

EK hired DEC's the last 15 years and even longer, they always will, it was discussed many times

fliion 18th Feb 2015 15:19

Emratty,

I'm sure no one surprised but what would have been appropriate from mgt is an email explaining current situation.

I'm not saying it would soften the blow for those who were close - that now are further.

Just a little professional respect in light of the fact that this will have work & financial implications for those FOS who have been working so hard over the past years with the 'Command' light at end of tunnel.

They just never miss an opportunity....to miss an opportunity..

The concept of management is to represent your employer's wishes...we get it...but no mgt/grad school would ever teach ignoring the employees aspirations....it's a fine balance.

Just an email would have shown a minute semblance of care.

Not a chance

This airline aspires to be one of the great airlines of the world...to those of you considering joing - think of some of the great brands out there - now stop, take a step back and ask yourself...do I want to join an outfit that had just bypassed loyal employees for advancement- and the only way these employees heard about it was through an ad. You cannot make this up.

Bravo

f.

Oscar84 18th Feb 2015 16:49

I am so sorry with all the A330 FO working in EK, that will be a mess for the people... time to look outside??

donpizmeov 18th Feb 2015 17:01

Only a rumour, but 60 DEC for the 777 and 40 DEC for the 330 this year. The 330 DEC are to release 330 Capts to the 380, and will stay for on 330 till there end date. Boeing DEC to give some relief to training and recruiting.

Gillegan 18th Feb 2015 17:15

Kind of puts those ads EK are running touting a move to the left seat into perspective.

bogeydope 18th Feb 2015 18:09

Gillegan, well said!!

The management of this place never ceases to amaze me!!!

captplaystation 18th Feb 2015 19:02

What I don't understand is at what stage of your entry into, & career with, Emirates you actually believed that you are viewed with any more respect than a Phillipino Chamber Maid ? did you really believe that ? :ugh: why do you think so many people are NOT beating a path to your door ?

montencee 18th Feb 2015 20:43


...why do you think so many people are NOT beating a path to your door ?
And therein lies the problem. In spite of more than 10 years of negative press on this board people ARE still 'beating a path' to EKs door.


A reminder of what goes on here.
Already this year in less than 7 weeks we have had:

Removal of passenger load data from the internal company website making subload travel impossible to plan with any accuracy.

Removal of self-certification for short term illness for cabin crew.

Annual leave entitlements not met with some crew having no leave for periods of 18 months or more.

New FTLs that don't include ULR bunk time towards 100 hours/28 days and 900 hours/12 months.

Today we have the return of DECs. Ironically the only seat I would consider if I was joining EK now would be as a DEC.

Before year end we will have the new rostering system expected to include no more than 5 choices each month and never more than 3 consecutive days off.


And so on...

Am NOT Sure 18th Feb 2015 22:25

This is going to a whole new level!

2015 is not a pleasant year

A bonus will follow to alleviate the impact .. But once the money is ravisly and swiftly spent .. This space is going to be visited everyday

Plane_Sailing 19th Feb 2015 02:37

This is really far more significant than previous DEC hiring events. This is not because there is a shortage of upgrade candidates and it's not because the training department is overwhelmed, this is because not enough suitable FO candidates are applying. But instead of immediately responding to the situation with a change in pay and conditions, they are putting a band aid over a severed artery. This will have the effect of increasing resignations and reducing applications. They are creating their own demise very successfully.

reportalfaqa 19th Feb 2015 05:25

"Kick Em While Their Down", the ongoing management motto lives up, or rather down to its sorry expectations. The three foot from right seat to left seat just go further. :ugh:

jack schidt 19th Feb 2015 07:19

To those FO's affected (sincerest bad luck) but you were warned here before joining, you made your choice/mistake to join EK now live with it please.

To those FO's who are thinking about coming, please re-read the above.

No one is at fault, except yourself, for signing up to the EK way of doing things. You have 2 choices........

Jack

346Heavy 19th Feb 2015 08:28

Guys i am currently working in REC for some other airline.....i don't know about EK but over here we always higher DEC but our F/O's have priority. opening up for DEC will never stop internal upgrades but from a man power planning point of view when you short on captains u just simply need to higher captains because training an F/O will take time and as much as we love upgrades some one has to occupy that right seat as well.

i know it sux if you where a skipper and join EK on the right and now the job is open for DEC...but i guess we have to accept the decisions we make in life.

glofish 19th Feb 2015 09:26


.... i don't know about EK but over here we always ....
Heavy, this is the epitome of naïveté of pilots aspiring or dreaming of EK. No insult intended, merely stating the obvious.

Before even contemplating of applying, or contributing to EK threads, read all that has been written. Especially about the changes of conditions since 2008. Do your homework!

The "over here we did" and "in my former company" is only suited to either bring your morale to a new low or make a complete fool out of yourself. Here, they don't give a rodents backside about the rest of the world.

Any FO, and by that i mean, each and every FO, joining EK at this stage must be either out of a job and in dire need of doe, or naive to the point of being almost dangerous in a modern 2-man cockpit.

The conditions are not the worst of the world, but as pilots we should be used in reading trends and take avoiding action before impact. The trend here is pointing to a hard impact!

Most of us warning on these sites are not outright against EK or Dubai, most have done their homework before joining and were satisfied with what was to expect. Not one of us however expected these managers capable of such "treason" and capable of changing almost all T&C's to deteriorate the conditions to that point.

We are merely extrapolating our experience and thus having to paint a really dire picture of what will be EK in a few months and years. They got away with so much, no one cared, no customer was afraid, no manager stood up, no regulator stepped in, neither the local ones nor the ones of countries visited by this outfit.

They will continue, that's for sure. There's no one to stop them!

Pointer 20th Feb 2015 06:17

EK Website has DEC 330
 
Removed after reflection and concluded lack of interest.

Pointer

expat400 20th Feb 2015 06:32

They were not lying. "foreseeable future" in the airline industry is about a week.

montencee 20th Feb 2015 09:06


Are you going to hire any DEC's in the foreseeable future? Answer: No!
You wouldn't have known this but the first time an EK manager announced there would be no more DECs was back in 1997 or thereabouts. The then HFO GJ said he would be EKs last DEC. Since then the 'last DEC' has turned up at least half a dozen times.

What you should have picked up on is that anything said here is only true until the start of the next working day or lunchtime if it's said in the morning.


Here's a quote from TCAS made back in 2009:


Emirates will not relax its strict rule that, no matter how many flying hours a recruit has notched up, everyone joining the flightdeck does so as a first officer.
The whole article is here: Middle East supplement: Emirates back in the hunt soon - 4/17/2009 - Flight Global

320busdriver 20th Feb 2015 09:31

Montencee you conveniently left the fact he also went on to say:ugh:


"We never rule these things out, but we don't anticipate taking anyone on directly as a captain," says Stealey. However, promotion to captain tends to be rapid for candidates with the experience and ability.:*


At the end of the day its a business solution, ground hundred of millions of dollars worth of aircraft or piss off a few staff:mad: we all know which solution they took.

montencee 20th Feb 2015 09:55

Yes, it's lucky I posted the link to the article so you could point that out.

Global Nomad 20th Feb 2015 10:16

Fliion, question.

A while back, there were a number of pilots that received an 'accelerated command'. Did they write an email to the FO's they'd bypassed explaining/apologising for being forced into the situation? No. So then I don't see why EK should write an email on behalf of DEC's that have yet to join the company just to make you feel better.

EK hires DEC's. Fact.

As to the guy that claimed he was told by recruitment, no DEC's in the foreseeable future. The recruiters most likely gave you an honest answer and besides, they usually find out policy about 3 hrs before you do . If you were gullible enough to interpret their words into a meaning that suited you, well what can I say.

Have your rant, it's not going to change anything we don't already know.

fatbus 20th Feb 2015 12:16

The same guys claim they were "promised an upgrade in 3 years", you only have to be here a short while and/ or talk to a pilot recruiter to know the truth

thatwasclose 20th Feb 2015 13:02

Guys, I think we are missing the point. Yes ek hires DEC, but the claim they do not want to. Yet it is the total mismanagement that leads to this. With proper planning it could have been averted. Instead, because of incompetence we have perfectly good colleagues who will suffer from this. Emirates is not a good company to work for.
For all those thinking of coming, look to our south first ! You would be crazy not to go there instead of here if you could .

electricdeathjet 20th Feb 2015 19:07


An FO should not be having to babysit the Captain as in the case of the last batch of 777/330 DEC's
Cute... And a slightly arrogant comment!

fatbus 21st Feb 2015 02:26

Those would be the same FO's failing the upgrade.

ekwhistleblower 21st Feb 2015 08:04

TWC,

I think they are trying to tactically manage the drawdown of the 330 fleet in the face of reducing recruitment as fewer have been attracted and of those that have, fewer are succeeding. Add that to the loss of Trainers and the situation can quickly become critical and irretrievable. So there will be outsourced training on the cards to try and catch up as they try to find a way to attract more candidates.

We know this will cost a boat load of money and so the penny pinching attitude of the last couple of years will come back to bite them and cost even more money in the long run. Until they break the cycle of short-term gain leading to long-term pain nothing will improve. The company leadership prides itself on flexibility but then fails to notice when flexibility becomes knee-jerking.

The solution in the short term is to allow the talented managers to manage without interference from untrained wannabees. The situation in training apparently went downhill when the last purge happened and the personnel changes have directly led to retention issues. As far as recruitment is concerned, those in the team fully realise the issues but battle with the inertia of the process. Senior leadership want instant results but it takes months to recruit and train new pilots so it must be accepted that the company should have a small reserve of personnel to allow for growth and issues with recruitment. That would also have the added benefit of reducing the pressure on frontline staff. Over time this approach would save money but the short term cost increase would almost certainly lead to the unenlightened dismissing it.

Ultimately though a company stands or falls on its culture and whether or not the employees buy into it. 20 years ago they used to but now that is no longer the case. If this does not change in the longer term the business will be doomed to mediocrity. Emirates is a brilliant brand that now must adapt from exploitation of employees to empowering and trusting them if it is to flourish further. Bullying, fear and ridicule should not be tolerated at any level of the business.

SOPS 21st Feb 2015 09:47

Ek blower what an excellent post!

DCS99 21st Feb 2015 17:07

Emirates is a brilliant brand that now must adapt from exploitation of employees to empowering and trusting them

Well said EKWB.

Pointer 21st Feb 2015 18:14

EK Website has DEC 330
 
(Removed after reflection and concluded lack of interest, Pointer)


Very true post Ek Blower

(edited to include praise for ekblower)

busboy1980 23rd Feb 2015 16:04

Dont bother looking south. Its much worse. South is good for a quick command.
However south has the lowest pay in the region and the worst rosters. They hire DECs all the time and on the best fleets. Even the 330 roster in EK is better that 330/340 roster down south(min 8 days off a month mostly and a request system that doesn't work).

TangoUniform 23rd Feb 2015 18:27

Emirates is a brilliant brand that now must adapt from exploitation of employees to empowering and trusting them if it is to flourish further.

I will agree with the rest, an accurate and most dramatic statement about EK as I have ever read.

BigGeordie 23rd Feb 2015 22:03

The thing that will really screw over the A330 F/Os is not the DECs on that fleet. It is the fact that they will then go across to the A380 as Captains while the F/Os who have already suffered for the company bottom line will move across as F/Os (I doubt there will be any more upgrades on the A330 now) and then have to do another 2,500 hours before they can be considered for an upgrade on the A380! This will literally add years to their time in the right hand seat.

Kapitanleutnant 24th Feb 2015 07:05

Ask the pointed questions…. you have nothing to lose

1. You advert 42 days vacation, but only give 30?
2. Won't the DEC's you're hiring slow my upgrade time considerably?

etc….

K

sluggums 24th Feb 2015 08:55

And ask about forced/allocated leave....

170to5 24th Feb 2015 12:07

...and how the new FTL's will affect rosters, even for 380 crew, and how you will be lucky enough to live in any one of a number of company-provided houses that are smaller and built to far worse standards than the one you'd be leaving to move to Dubai...and how you'll not have that much extra cash at the end of the month because everything is proportionately expensive in relation to your salary...

IMO the next few months are very, very uncertain for EK flight crew, it might be wise to hold off (as nice as the cavalry of new guys would be) to see what the company looks like as an employer once any dust has settled in September or October...


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