Emirates vs Turkish Airlines
 

Hi everybody,

What would you choose if you were in your early thirties, married without children, ambitious A320 FO?

Emirates A380 DEFO

or

Turkish Airlines A330 DEFO

Many thanks! :ok:

If you don't mind the heat, go for EK. However, recall you won't see an A380 Captain upgrade for 10-12 years. You may upgrade faster at the other growing UAE airline. If you can't stand extreme heat for a few months per year, go for TK. Both are fast-growing airlines with expanding hubs. I would have your spouse weigh in heavily on his/her preference as well since you will be traveling most of the time while he/she remains.

That's my 0.02. Others have their own opinions. Regardless, good job if you have offers from both. :ok::cool:

I would have said Emirates for the last 11 years, now I am honestly not sure that would be the case, I don't joke either.

Probably not. Try the far side of 12-15 years if ever. Right now Emirates has 6 year A380 F/Os with previous medium jet command time. New joiners will not get a command until the airline doubles in size to nearly 400+ aircraft if that happens. The EK age demography means few retirements, those and any resignations will likely be compensated for by DECs.

Turkish maybe. Emirates is a big airline and growth will decline from now on. Many of the orders are overdue replacements for older aircraft.

The poster Iver has no particular connection with EK or the Middle East area. I think he works in Europe.


Even so I wouldn't go work for THY. I wouldn't join EK as an F/O either.

My 2 cents, wherever you can get command the fastest, even if that means staying where you are. With 1000 pic in the 320 the world is yours, even dec into 330 etc. if you can stick it out it's worth it.

Contradicting views. Everyone seems to scoff at the idea of staying in the ME >15 years whilst predicting little attrition.

Has command really shot up to ~12 years already? Especially given TC is now talking about +350 aircraft fleet, and quoted recently as 120-150 A380's.

And Turkish haven't honoured expat contracts! Steer clear!

Recently less scoffing and more staying. This area (with EK, EY & QR) is where the growth has been and the jobs are. Maybe the US will open up but don't count on it.

Not for people who joined more than a couple of years ago. But it will. See the next paragraphs.

Based on that forecast a 40+ year old F/O joining now might never get their command at EK. With a current fleet size of 191 or 202 including freighters it would take a fleet size of 400+ before someone joining now would be up for command. Yes there will be retirements and resignations. There will also be DECs. Two thirds of the joiners in the last two calendar months were DECs. Admittedly a DEC spike, but they're not going to go away this time.
There are 188 aircraft on order. Half or more will be replacement not additional aircraft.

And this is where a part of EKs growth will be. Bigger aircraft equals more passengers (customers).

My advice is join EY.

Thanks, I appreciate the advice. The majority of people looking to come to the region still aim for EK.

The other carrier is becoming an option as it matures.

On the widebody in THY, there are 7 to 10 consecutive days off each month which you won't have in EK. Istanbul, though not 100% European city, is a great place to live. The climate can't be compared with that of Dubai of course!

On the other hand, in THY there are some uncertainties regarding foreign FOs command upgrade and contract prolongation (EK looks more stable and secure in the long term, despite the long upgrade time).

Salaries in both companies are almost the same. But in EK you will get some other benefits such as company provided accomodation and education support allowance for up to 3 children.

I would say - a hard choice. Good luck!

My 0.02.

Don't come to Emirates if all you are after is a quick command. If you join now it isn't likely to be that quick and you will still be in Dubai, with the 92 hour rosters and all that entails, while you are waiting. You will end up becoming bitter an twisted as you (possibly) get passed over for command because you are on the wrong fleet or they bring in DECs. In answer to a question above they use DECs because it is cheaper and faster than upgrading an F/O and training his replacement- there have been times in the past, and doubtless will be again, when the training department is running flat out and still can't put the required numbers through the system. DECs are here to stay, just accept it.

Come to Emirates and Dubai for the long term, the lifestyle, the climate, the destinations and the job security. The command will come eventually.

70 - 350 includes 50 359 and 20 351, EK has already said they are only interested in the 351 ( 20 ) which has an EIS 2017 at the earliest. The 50 359 no one knows, but it does not look good. Additional 380 's maybe but post 2017. 777 @ 13 to retire in 2014. 773ers start to be replaced in 2017 ( TC press release) A few more DEC's on the 330, hopefully for the EK FO's that's it for a while. A large amount of hiring this past year was DEC's , don't know if it was a majority .

White Knight

That's not 100% true. They initially said the contract was permanent although they signed it to the Commanders only with the promise that they were working on the contract for FOs.
And so it was, we the FOs have signed already our permanent agreement.

So, yes, they were late and initially signing the old contract was a big disappointment for us, but at least they've done now what they said.

There is no such thing as a permanent contract in Turkey. The labour legislations are much different from the European ones, no matter what they call it. The only permanency is that the contract might indefinitely be renewed automatically if none of the parts wishes to terminate it.

TypeIV

Agree with you. The contract is written and defined as a permanent one, but at some point there is a note stating that this is valid as long as your work permit is valid.
Is easy for the company not to renew it.

But, again, I don't think that Dubai and the policy of this companies, with no pilot unions etc is much more better.

Still I will go for EK if someone asks me.

Let me ask you guys this....what's life like when flying 92 hrs/month for EK?? how many days off during the month and how many nights at home does 92 hrs a month means???! with the Ultra Long Haul flights and so on...is there any time left to enjoy living in Dubai with the wife and family??:cool:

On the other hand...let's talk money :} is saving at all possible on a FO salary?...and again, having a life in Dubai; does this still apply or is it impossible...I dont know this ('cuz I dont work/live there) but I'd say EK is a good place if you are in it for the long term and the job stability it offers....but still would like to know the answer to my questions above,..thanks!!

Having worked at both companies EK and THY on B777, I would recommend you go to Turkish if you are only talking about a quick command. It will be on a narrow body and the work load will be pretty serious. Currently Turkish pilots are exempt from income tax ( a bit like the French artists ), this is rumoured to be changing under Turkey's outspoken prime minister. That would mean more coin in Dubai. All the best with your decision.

Where do you work now fluke?

I am still at Turkish. Don't think I would do another stint in the gulf countries. :ugh:

How many ex EK guys are up there? heard quite a few have gone