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-   -   How long will EK DEC program continue (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/488056-how-long-will-ek-dec-program-continue.html)

MagicCarpet 6th Jun 2012 16:56


Originally Posted by fatbus (Post 7229045)
By wrong fleet I gather you mean 777 when referring to upgrades.

As of right now, June 2012

Most junior 777 captain hired Oct 2008 – 3yrs 8mo with the company
Most junior 330 captain hired Nov 2007 – 4yrs 7mo with the company
Most junior 380 captain hired July 2002 – 9yrs 11mo with the company

fatbus 6th Jun 2012 17:56

MC , I was not referring to the present day upgrades I was referring to the new hire FO and when and on what they will up grade.

The full NAC course is 6-7 Sims plus 3 LOS's and an LOE

donpizmeov 6th Jun 2012 18:07

Magic,

As fatbus stated the current stats mean nothing for a new joiner. These Statistics only mean something to those that joined 5yrs ago.

Interesting that 2yrs ago the command on the A330 was taking over 5.5yrs and the 777 was at 3yrs. Notice any trend at all?

In 2002 a A330/310 commands was 18mths for and accelerated guy and 3 yrs fo everyone else. We had guys being accelerated onto 777 commands from the 330, while fellas with 3yrs in the company on the Boeing were left behind, as the only commands avail for a while on the 777 were "Transition ones". Leroy would put a 330 dude on NAC at 2.5yrs in the company while the 777 dude could not start until 3yrs in the company were completed. Only stating this because the two fleets have always been treated as separate with respect to rules. And it shows how things change.

Look again at what fleet numbers fatbus posted, and think about what these mean to a new joiner.

The Don

maghy 7th Jun 2012 09:54

Dear Don,
I myself will be joining EK shortly as f/o 777. Do all the threads mean i can Just dream about an upgrade in the near future? Thank's for tour time.

M.

maghy 7th Jun 2012 09:56

"your" time. Dam autocorrect !

donpizmeov 7th Jun 2012 13:29

Maghy,

I have no inside info. We have been told that DXB capacity is limiting EK expansion to 260/280 aircraft (cant remember which it is) until it moves to the new aiport in 2025. EK has 176 aircraft now. So lets call it fleet growth on 100 airframes in the next 13 years.
We now have 107 of the 160 Boeings we have been told will be in the fleet.
Going by the orders now the Boeing fleet will grow by just under 50% and the Bus fleet by a bit over 90% in the next 13 years.
I think its 65 DECs that are being hied this year.
Plan on a longer time for a command, and be pleasantly surprised if it happens earlier.

The Don

maghy 7th Jun 2012 14:29

Don, Thank you for the answer. I'll take my patience bag along with me in the desert then.

vikena 7th Jun 2012 16:18

Hi all,

Within 48hrs of submitting my online application to Emirates for DeC my status indicated short listed. But 3 weeks later no phone call or no contact.

Anyone any idea what's happening?

V

Germanflyer 20th Jun 2012 10:49

Aha.....my thread returns!
Thanks mods....
Good to know someone's listening out there(and watching....).
;)

fatbus 21st Jun 2012 06:26

If you knew who is in charge of manpower planning you would realize the mess they are in. The DEC thing changes daily. Latest is very few, they needed them NOW not 6 months from now and they cant train them fast enough. The focus is now on the 380 and how they are going to fix that one.

Jetaim 23rd Jun 2012 09:23

All the time I read of a guy from Europe joining EK I feel sad. I just hope you did not leave a job to join the circus. Maghi just have crystal clear into your mind that there are three type of pilots in EK. One are the desperate that joined because they lost their job. They would leave tomorrow if they could. You will not read them here as they had no choice. I would say it is the majority.Than there are those in good faith that fell into the EK trap and ended up in desert. They soon realized their error and at the first occasion jumped ship...a minority. But there is substantial number of short dicked imbecils that you would read here that are still trying to convince themselves that the sorry life they are doing in one of the biggest ****hole of the world is a good life. To convince themselves they tend to try convince others. Are the one doing he bean counters on fleet numbers, upgrade times ect etc in the free time they have from their night turns to India and they try to compensate with optimistic views and suggestion the fact that de facto they are slave without whatsoever right. Listen to me your are still in time. It will take a decade to upgrade at least. Ek has peaked already . Arrogance had made his time and its time for aviation to back to country that have an actual population. EK is just a monster created by globalization with a certain destiny: extintion.

Payscale 23rd Jun 2012 12:47

Remember that all the guys you dispense advise left right and center about the state of the business and time to commands for new hires are just stating a preference or guessing.
Noone can for sure tell you when you will upgrade. Not in Emirates. Not anywhere. When I started in aviation 25 years ago I was told, that i would be a captain in 5 years. Had I stayed with this airline I would still be an FO.

There are not 3 types of pilots in EK. There are +3200.... we all have different reasons to being here.

Fact is very few people have left. Remember it is an expat airline and so eventually we will all leave.

We are not slaves as someone suggested. Not more so than anyother employee in any job around the world. We are all on the same treadmill and slaves of our own ambitions and aspirations.

Personally I have had 10 great years in EK so far and my family is happy, so I will stay a little longer...

Someone wrote the time to command on the different types. The A380 time is wrong. The least senior capt on the fleet hold a management position, hence is out of seniority. Time to command on the A380 is approx 10,5 years today, but the real picture wont emerge untill the pilots who were hired while the A380 was in the fleet come up for command on it. Then it will come drastically down

cerbus 23rd Jun 2012 17:10

Keep in mind that most the EK pilots think this is a good job. JetAim I don't know if your numbers are accurate but are probably pretty close to the truth.
Most of the good pilots have already left. Wait to the world economy turns around and see the exodus.

BYMONEK 23rd Jun 2012 19:09

Cerbus and Jetaim

'Short dicked Imbecils'

'Most of the good pilots have already left'

We are all entitled to our opinions and how we view our employer and working conditions. However, when this 'opinion' involves emotional diatribe directed towards the very people you have to sit next to and work with, it over steps the line. Not only do I consider it insulting, it also demonstrates how immature you both are. You wouldn't quote that at work so why do you find it acceptable to make those sweeping statements here? Anonymity doesn't hide your ignorance!

These forums are open to the public and are often read by people who fly EK. I just hope that they have the intelligence to realise that the great majority of the pilots here are highly professional individuals who actually respect their fellow co workers.

Maybe that's something you should both consider....whilst you're still here!

King on a Wing 23rd Jun 2012 20:13

Just a fleeting thought here.
Are they still interviewing for DEC positions. Last I heard, they were full up and were basically going thru the motions with those that they had invited before the dramatic cut in the numbers actually required.
I know a few who did interviews last couple of weeks and only a couple made it thru to the meds. This, out of the 16 who were invited.
Even after the medical they don't know whether they are in or not. By what I made out, BOTH are certain they won't be called for the job due some 'disqualification' at the referees stage or at the medicals.
I guess the numbers are made and the seats are taken. Now it's just about lip service to those invited.
Comments welcome.

donpizmeov 23rd Jun 2012 23:43

It costs EK travel accommodation and meals to get someone over for an interview. Knowing how Ek does not waste money I would assure your friend that any non acceptance would be due to poor performance not EK face saving. Hope this helps.

The don

Swan Man 24th Jun 2012 06:20

Respect the pilots at EK Bymonek?
This is from pilots that I have heard from directly;
"The company has said that hiring DECs will not delay my upgrade."
Please explain to me how putting 150 or so DECs (I would like to use another four letter word here) in front of you will NOT delay your upgrade. Which is worse in this case Emirates hiring DECs or delusional pilots believing the crap management spouts?
"This is the best job in the world, bar none."
No this is the best job you can get. Emirates is not the best job in the world, not by a long shot. Please pull your head out of your arse and take a look around you. Do you see any LH, AF or BA pilots here? There is a reason you don't see any of those pilots here. They don't want to take a pay cut and fly more hours.
So these are the pilots we are suppose to respect? These same pilots that couldn't get hired at a good airline and now think EK is the be all end all of aviation. Please help us!

givemewings 24th Jun 2012 06:49

Swan Man, that is YOUR opinion, that it is NOT the best job in the world.

And the guys who say it IS, that is THEIR opinion.

There is actually no right or wrong, it's all in the perspective.

I still don't understand how so many of you can fail to get this.

Okay, I'm not a pilot, but I don't tell the girl working corporate in Saudi that she's wrong when she says her job is the best crew gig in the world. For her, it is. Just as when people try to tell me their job back in Oz is better than mine- I've been there done that, and for me, here is the best. Nothing to do with not being able to be hired or not by anyone else, it's about choices. What's good for one is not necessarily good for the other.

The endless bagging of people who are happy in the M.E. on this forum is kind of killing it to be honest. It used to be fun here. Some of you accuse the guys here that enjoy life of trying to 'justify' their taking the job. I would turn it around and say that all you saying "it's the worst job in the world, woe is me" that haven't actually been here are trying to justify NOT being here...

That's my 2c, I'm off to brew the coffee...

Rizla2002 24th Jun 2012 07:51


Originally Posted by Swan Man (Post 7259535)
So these are the pilots we are suppose to respect? These same pilots that couldn't get hired at a good airline and now think EK is the be all end all of aviation. Please help us!

I don't remember so many recruiting programs from these majors in the last 10 yrs...so please forgive us if we didn't wait for the big Airlines and we accepted to fly for one of the not so posh jobs in the industry. In the meantime our fellow pilots in their goldshells, well paid and protected...have always refused to share their lovely working conditions by, for example, promoting a minimum contract for the pilot community.

fatbus 24th Jun 2012 08:12

Don't know about AF but there is pilots from BA and LH here. Swanny , when you do get to the upgrade good luck with that , youare going to need it!

Swan Man 24th Jun 2012 08:21

It is quite easy to see who the best airlines in the world are. We can look at the hourly wage, days off and T&C of the world's airlines. Your answer may vary but it will probably be the same 10 airlines in the Top 10 but a different order. By any account of the 3 items listed above EK will not be in most pilots Top 10. That is if we look at the hard facts. We haven't even touched on living in Dubai and how expensive it is. Plus the fact the Emirates hires DECs which greatly detracts from the long term prospectives of any pilot not to mention surpresses wages at the airline.
If pilots here think EK is the best job in the world they need some serious help or they have been dipping into their wives "Happy Pills" again.
And how many LH or BA pilots are here Fatty? 3 or 5.
Keep brewing wings. Isn't there a stewedress section of pprune

Payscale 24th Jun 2012 08:33

Swn Man... you ARE an ugly duckling! :*

As someone else was trying to explain. Some people like it. Others dont. It cannot be decided which is the best airline to work for.
Find one that suits your personality and be happy...

givemewings 24th Jun 2012 09:19


Isn't there a stewedress section of pprune
(it's spelled "stewardess" btw)

Yes there is, you might find it more suited to yourself since you demonstrate the CRM skills of an ab initio GR2.

Wait, that's an insult to GR2s....

Yet another example of snobbery toward someone based on their job. I wasn't always cabin crew, and neither were most of my colleagues. Some of them are even smarter than you (PhD in physics, on one of my recent flights)

FYI, the ME forums is for ALL expats flying in the sandpit, not just pilots. Get over yourself.

170to5 24th Jun 2012 09:34

Swan man

Any reasonable human being would be ashamed of themselves for writing that. I don't care what you think of your job...and there are others available out there...to belittle someone else in such a way actually makes me embarrassed to hold the same licence as you.

A proper 60's mentality. I hope wings has the good fortune to be the one to make your next coffee.

harry the cod 24th Jun 2012 09:47

Givemewings

Just ignore Swan Man and rise above his childish insults. He's probably divorced because his wife is sick and tired of his constant moaning and he's a complete old woman when it comes to operating in 'his' flight deck. You know the sort, the type that demand the fancy coffees and pillows before you've even had a chance to introduce yourself. Like others here, his lack of courtesy and respect to fellow aviators is rather telling of him as an individual. This is a public forum. You post here as much as you want!

Swan Man

If it bothers you so much about our fellow cabin crew joining the debate, may I recommend you sign up for the dedicated EK pilot group. You will be required to validate your identity to a moderator. Those with nothing constructive to offer often hide behind the cloak of anonymity so I shall not hold my breath on that one.

Harry

p.s Jetaim

My wife would like to know how you know me so well without ever having met me? Quote; "small dicked imbecile". She's asked that you PM her with your predictions for this weeks Euro Lottery. When we win, not only will I get a penis enlargement, I'll also pay to have your large appendage removed from your forehead! :E

givemewings 24th Jun 2012 09:53

Don't worry, I realise that the outdated views of Swanny are in the minority in our flight decks. Thank goodness. And luckily most of you realise it's a bad idea to mess with the people serving you food.... ;) (Joke! Before you run off dobbing to fleet... :E)

Had I listened to all the moaners on the cc forum I would never have made the move out here, and I would have missed out on some of the best times of my life! Crap, not crap, our experiences make us who we are in the end, who are we to deny that to someone else? By all means give the facts and your opinion, but don't get the two confused. Then everyone can make up their own mind...

I intend to continue posting where I feel inclined, as you guys have said it's a public forum, and I thought you might like to know that as an interested observer some of the posters here come across as all-knowing all-mighty and really need to take a good look at themselves before bagging out someone else's choice to be happy.

gmw... bringing the coffee, staying for the flying talk :ok:

Al Murdoch 24th Jun 2012 10:00

I still want to know why Jetaim doesn't work at EK anymore... Come on, the suspense is killing me.

cerbus 24th Jun 2012 10:37

With all the pilots that EK has fired over the years you probably could nail it down to 25 or so pilots that have got the heave how.
Wow there are a lot of people that think EK is good and not just pilots. A PHD cabin crewing for Emirates? Now that is a serious case of over qualified job description. What a waste of time and money spent studying to get your PHD.

givemewings 24th Jun 2012 10:50

She wanted a few years off to enjoy life before being chained to a desk. You'll find quite a large percentage of the cabin are overqualified on paper for what they do... we've got lawyers, doctors, EMT, civil engineers, architects. Those of you who thin kwe just bring the coffee might like to ask what we did prior, next time... we've got some interesting people working with us... not just you lot with all the good stories ;) :ok:

back to DECs...

vfenext 24th Jun 2012 11:38

Jetaim never worked for EK, guaranteed!

DesertHawk 27th Jun 2012 09:08

SWAN:

FYI i think no one would argue being a top guy at BA or AC or AA or FED ex would be great, maybe the best job in the world. Guess what, it takes 25 years to get there and the TC are changing in all these places as well. The golden days are over. So hard fact is working in EK or a similar outfit is usually a much faster way to make decent money and fly big metal. Its like comparing apples to oranges! For instance u join Flag carrier in US/Canada take MIN 12-15 years to make capt on A320. u join Ek or EY u make command within 5 or so years the whole time making command salaries(tax taken into account) back home. So yeah EK aint the greatest but we all didn't get hired at 21 at BA!!!!:ugh:

Also FYI many EK and other guys in middle east could easily go back and get a job at those airlines. The difference is TIMING!!!! when they would of jumped at the opportunity they did not get interview due to economic environment and airlines were not hiring. So they went off and forwarded their own careers and probably had a family. Now it would be a massive hit with a few kids to go home and sit in RHS for less money. BTW speaking form personal experience! I find it amusing how people don't realize that most of what happens in our careers is a combination of luck and timing!

harry the cod 28th Jun 2012 18:18

'......most of what happens in our careers is a combination of luck and timing!'

Yep, that just about sums up all my landings. :ooh:

Harry

fliion 29th Jun 2012 08:59

The same guys slagging off EK with the typical "... You're all drinking kool-aid.." argument have never provided the links to airlines that are hiring and are better than here.

So let's have it...where should we go? And why are you still here?

f.

LHR Rain 29th Jun 2012 10:37

Filly you are such a tosser! Take a look around you and why do we have to provide you with the links to better airlines? Can't you do anything for yourself.

donpizmeov 29th Jun 2012 12:38

Yes, but LHR you have to admit it becomes a bit tiresome when anonymous folk continually whine about how everyone else in the company is crap for staying in EK or wanting to join EK, when they themselves work for EK. I am not sure how the differentiate themselves from everyone else.
If Swanman thought it was ok to join EK even though FOs were being shafted by DECs at the time, he has no recourse to bitch about it now. He joining knowing this happens is part of the problem. He speaks of top ten airlines etc etc but he would no doubt have taken a quicker command on the Boeing before more senior FOs on the Bus and thought nothing about it.
It would appear he can not take responsibility for his decision to join EK, and now that the big shiny jet syndrome has worn off he needs to vent at and blame others. I do wonder why his previous company (a top tenner for sure) let him go.

The Don

fliion 29th Jun 2012 13:31

LHR - you articulate my point beautifully.

Instead of naming any airlines (forget the links!) - you use profanity and insult the poster.

So SIMPLY tell us about these airlines.

f.

PS in wash-up they told us 48 former EK pilots applied for DEC, twelve will be taken.

falconeasydriver 29th Jun 2012 14:10

Bahhhh humbug, my little girl managed a whole sentence in french today, you guys rich in metaphor and spittle really do need to get some perspective:ugh:
Its EK's trainset, they operate in an environment that suits their MO, end of story.

cerbus 1st Jul 2012 09:34

We still are not discussing that Emirates is the best airline in the world arguement are we?
Why is EK having trouble recruiting pilots if it is the best? Fed Ex opened its application window for 2 weeks and got over 10,000 applications, I don't know how many were qualifed but they do have mins.
We struggle to fill classes from pilots far less qualified then even 4 yrs ago and even overfill the classes because too many fail the course or drop-out or no-show. Hence the "reason" from the company for the dreaded DECs. By the way I think this is the 3rd or 4th time since I have been with the company that the company has put in writing or said in Wash-ups that they were not ever hiring DECs again and then very soon after the memo started hiring DECs.
Most pilots agree that being on the top at BA, AC, LH, or AF you don't look up at too many other airlines. If you come from Mesa, British Charters, LCCs in Europe, or other regionals EK is superb.

pilotday 1st Jul 2012 12:00

EK new pilot slogan
 
Emirates: Because my home airline does not want me

harry the cod 1st Jul 2012 16:47

pilotday

Sorry to hear they don't want you. Was it a good airline? Can you not apply to many of the other US airlines that are recruiting right now?

I Know how you must feel. I often miss my old airline with it's never ending night turnrounds and unstable rosters. The staff travel with cramped 29" seat pitch is but a distant dream as is the plastic food in plastic containers eaten with plastic cutlery. The bonus too, missed so much that in 11 years I missed it altogether! And the 45 minute drive to and from work, especially in rush hour. The 5 minute walk in the pissing rain from the car park to a bus, then the warm comfort of a tiny crew room with the same miserable old faces of people doing the same destinations day in, day out. The manual loadsheets and own refueling then do it all the next day.... and the next. At least the suitcase, which I bought myself, stayed looking new.

I did some sums last night. It's vulgar to discuss money, especially on a public forum, but for the benefit of people like you, my reason for being here is clear. So, before the 'keep drinking the cool aid' brigade start, maybe you should visit the website reversetax.com. I'm not going to go into all the details as personal circumstances will differ, but to achieve the same package back home that I get here, I'd need to pull 289K before tax. That's pound sterling my friend, not dollars. I'm a TRI AO, ten years in EK, with children and I live out. I didn't include meal allowances and Company provident fund contributions. The latter has just increased to 15%.

Give it a try. You might be glad your home airline doesn't want you after all!

Harry


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