EK Rosters
 

Been hearing mixed reports on the rosters at EK.

My interest is in Layovers and turnarounds on both the 777 and Airbus side.

How many days can you expect to be away from home if you bid only for turnarounds every time? Are there many 5 or 6 day pairings?

Thanks for any constructive comments and information.

..........what animal is a "bid" habibi ?:}

No such "animal" exists in EK:E ........used exist, but now is extinct ! Was killed by a hunter called CRS......

This is why I said "constructive comments".

NEXT!

..........what animal is a "bid" habibi ?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/badteeth.gif

No such "animal" exists in EKhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ilies/evil.gif ........used exist, but now is extinct ! Was killed by a hunter called CRS......

Expecting a constructive answer on the subject of bidding in EK and let alone from EK Ppruners is asking for a Lazarus-like miracle.:ugh: You honestly cannot plan your life based on the bidding system whether on boeing or on the bus. You just have to make the best of what you get. Make a few swops if you can otherwise on the few occassions you will get what you want, it will be punctuated with what you don't want.

I think would be a fair assessment of the bidding system in EK

Here's an example of what you can expect Trent (777 roster this month).

15 days leave.
Rostered flight up to 3 hours before leave starts.
75 hours flying in the remaining 15 days (equates to 150hrs for a full month!!!!!
Flying from west coast of US through to Far East within days...a 16 hour time zone change...and then East Coast Australia..another couple of hours time difference.
A grand total of three days off in the remaining 15 days of work ("oh...you've had plenty of days off on leave..why would we give you any more days off during your 88hrs of duty in 15 days, spanning 18 time zones and 7 night sectors..after all you're only working 8 hours more than our office workers over that 2 week period..what are you complaining about?")

Note; hint of scarcasm in the last paragraph in case you missed it

So Trent, hope you enjoy your time here if you decide to come.

You MUST be punished for taking leave!

Cav.

I'm rostered for 100 hours in April, that doesn't leave much time or strength for family matters. Enough is enough, I've already resigned.

What you outsiders don't seem to understand, it's not just the block hour total, it's the mix of day and night flying and crossing 16 time zones in a month. Very unhealthy, impossible to be a husband/father while exhausted on days off.

Just under 90 hrs in 21 days and still on reserve!

Dog tired, and unsustainable!

Forgotten what my wife looks like!

KAMEL
That sounds like not enough crew (big time) in simplistic terms.

:\

So there is a bright side to this.

the computer does do the insertion but CRS is manipulated to do it the way the company's wants so they can stand back and say it was not manual, you will find more top bid rosters effected by this, about 2 years ago there was a small group of pilots( strong union back ground as well as experience with bidding) were working the system to their advantage ( read O/T ), AAR found out and the rest is what we have now, Thanks boys

So Fatbus, you are blaming a few pilots who years ago 'allegedly' worked the bidding system to their advantage. Even if your assertion, which is straight out of the company propaganda manual, was true, so what? They didn't disadvantage their colleagues in any way, so how about focusing your venom on the real problem.

The true reason for the disgusting, often illegal and de-humanizing rostering practices at Emirates Airline is AAR. He is the sole reason that rostering is such a nightmare for pilots at EK. THANKS BOY!!!

By the way, what exactly do you mean the computer ''does do the manual insertions''? One of the most bizarre assertions I have ever read here on Pprune. (other than the recent 'company' inserted posts)

LR 3 - check facts and FOM before speaking 'truth': you can't be on duty at 0230 immediately following leave.

FOM gives you a day off and I've never heard of it not happening- if it does, get on the phone.

Trimotor

You beat me to it! Not only a day off after leave, but you'd then need a rest day before your 0230 report.

Perhaps if some people were more realistic and didn't try for 6 days off before leave, they might not get that DOH the day before leave starts. I've always just gone for 2 and have never not got them.

Harry

Bidding?? You gotta be joking!
 

Seniority, bid group, bidding strategies.... just an illusion to make you feel like you've got a choice in the matter.

Rostering system is rife with manipulations (pre-assignments for training; management pilot cherry picking trips etc..) and constraints which prevent the software package from working as intended.

Best advice, don't expect the bidding system to always work the way you'd like it to work. Sometimes it's fantastic what can come out of the system, others.. just plain tragic, painful and fatiguing..:ouch:

On the bright side, each roster delivery day is like a surprise party.... you can keep discovering each and every month you are here..:D

SHR

It may seem unbelievable to some but I am dealing with all of this on a daily basis at my current airline so it wouldn't be any big change for me (except, of course, the pay)

You're not with Al******tAir are you?

Never heard of Al******tAir. Are they new?

No, but they're based in Vegas. Anyone flying in Vegas (my assumption, apologies if wrong) would know who I was referring to.

Hi could a few guys send some of their rosters (330 and 777)?

thank you very much

No! Would you like me to publish my name, staff number, address, and seniority number as well?:ugh:

I'm sorry I didn't realize I had to specify what seems to be obvious to me. Could somebody please their 330 and 777 rosters while erasing any sensitive info. Thank you very much

Unless you want it blank then we could be identified. Management are stupid, but not that stupid..:ugh:

its simple..aNY ROSTER 330 or 777 involves 98 hours of hard flying that is making people collapse. What else do you want to know?

According to the latest missive from the "New Guy" (who seems to sound a lot like the Old Guy/Last Guy/Next Guy), a large part of the blame rests on those cads who dare to call Sick or Fatigued.

This causes a lot of havoc as they attempt to "rescue" the roster and thus other pilots are disadvantaged by having to cover.

wtf?!?

In other words, please don't call sick or fatigued. Because it's your fault then that your colleagues are suffering.

Or could it be that guys are...sick...and tired?!

Emirates have to be the biggest bunch of hypocritical pr$cks in the industry...on the one hand want to take credit for not laying off "160 surplus pilots" during the downturn (no doubt due to the kindness of their hearts). Yet run away from taking responsibility for the current shortage of pilots.

Don't preach safety and then issue veiled complaints about how guys who feel that perhaps it's UNSAFE to fly SICK OR FATIGUED do the right thing and pull themselves off the field!!

This place would be a lot better if we just had some leadership instead of snivelling cowardice like this letter. (Latest Flt Ops Update)

NLH,

I might disagree with a lot you say, but you are on the money here.

The only way this level of work can remain safe is if it is short term and people don't fly when they are too tired.

It's quite possible to build a legal roster under ANY FTLS that is still fatiguing to an unacceptable degree. If it catches up to you, you DON'T FLY.

What exactley is it he is asking us to do? Predict a week in advance as to whether we will be fatigued or not? Suits me!

I also wonder how much more of a mess we would be in now if they HAD gotten rid of the 160 pilots we were supposedly surplus!

Didn't take long for Johnny to show that he's AARs Poodle, another one.

Every time EK managers pretend something, you can be sure the truth's the other way around.
By pressing 2 you actually HELP your collegues!
EK only reacts with statistics and numbers. Too many sick -> problem. First reaction -> denial. Second reaction -> threats. But third reaction finally -> action.
Numbers must get desperate and even airframes grounded, only then they will increase the pilots numbers and reduce the hours.
Don't feel guilty, you're doing the right thing. For safety, for your buddies, for your own health and finally even for the company.

JA, you should be ashamed, but then again, you took the job very much knowing, knowing....

Different name same rubbish seems like the British chap is cut from the same cloth as the Yank, we had before get ready for more stupid FCN.FCI ,

Right so it pilots going sick which is the problem not that we are all working 90+ hrs a month.
Does he really believe this C@!@P

The more it changes the more it stays the same
:ugh:

Any ideas?
 

LR 3 you could always hope for AAR doing a sterling piece of driving in the true spirit of the chosen ones down SZR.

LR3, it's quite simple to understand that no rostering system will or can ever work unless it has the correct resourses to comply with the restrictions that it is charged with complying with.
I believe that EK hasn't been in a position to allow the rostering system to generate rosters for quite some time, without a considerable number of "ghost" pilots that in reality don't exist.

Overcrewed by 160 pilots to undercrewed in the space of a year?!?!?! Smells like sh!t to me and that letter seems to indicate that new guy is full of the same stuff. 5 weeks it's taken him to come up with that piece of literary genious. Agreed broken english, there is no big changes in my logbook from last year either. It's all bullsh!t.

So did Sky Air World :}

halas

Gentleman and Ladies

When you look at the BP execs being grillled by congress , the strongest argument came from workers on the rigs ( whistleblowers) who had expressed their concerns to their managers.

We have a professional obligation to do so. The ASR system is the single gauranteed source of information. This way there will be some accountablity at least in the ivory towers when the inevitable happens.

We know that ASR,s are read by the entire management structure from His Highness and the Chairman and the entire management team. So if the evidence were to present itself , they would not be able to pass the buck. They would have been informed.

I am disgusted at the blatant disregaurd for what the pilot group is saying referece fatigue.

Slightly off topic sorry chaps but just have a question and can't think of where else to put it.
I've just been having an aerosexual moment on airliners.net and there was a pic of an EK 777 Freighter landing in DUS.
If you fly the 777 can you be rostered for cargo flights or is this a seperate entity? I know the contract used to be flown by Atlas Air with the 747 if I'm not mistaken?
Again, apologies for taking this a bit off topic but just curious as I gather a bit more info before applying.

Cheers
CB:ok:

777F
 

If you fly the 777, you can also fly the 777F, after completing an on line differences course. Actually it's a breeze; no pax, no hosties, sometimes just a loadmaster, so no waiting for some buffoon who's shopping in duty free, or late connexions.

Apart from flying mostly at night it's pretty good. It usually leaves DXB empty, so it goes like a rat up a drain pipe.

Recommended

Fourgolds..

I agree with your point about filing ASR's. However, the management in this company can, and will, punish those of us who file an ASR that will make them look BAD.

Case in point? Check the ASR filed March 13 of this year. A380 flight DXB to SYD. TRE who was Captain (PF) intentionally flew above max speed below 5000. The operating FO filed the ASR, and since then has been off line for 3 months.... apparently he's SICK.. I can only imagine how his career is going to play out here at EK. And we have a very senior A380 TRE busting SOP's. (He continued his roster as normal) The post flight analysis confirmed the ASR report. (280 kts)

Another case in point? Manchester last year..

Jinglie'd

Jinglied,
"Below 10,000ft AAL, the max speed shall be limited to the GREATER of 250kts OR flaps up manouvering/clean speed, unless
a) the arrival or dep requires a higher speed or
b) a higher speed is requested by ATC

The speed limit is mandatory below 5000ft AAL".

( the speed limit in this instance being 250kts or clean speed)
Now i dont know what clean speed was on that day but maybe for such a long sector length it was above 250kts in which case acceleration to the clean speed would have been i.a.w company sops.

Instant Hooligan,

I think everyone knows that speed control SOP.

Jinglie'd

Well I've read the ASR you allude to and unless you know some information we are not privy to, then I dont understand your issue with the ASR in question?