Tx Jimal

That was easy!

Good point there Jim. Not sure about para 1.1. Does it mean that because it can be longer than 14hrs it must be crewed ULR then and not under a variation?

Sending an email to fleet asking for clarification, will let you know if there is any response.

The Don.

.....A 3 man crew operation is not permitted for any ULR sector with a scheduled Flight Time in excess of 15 hours.

In my opinion an ULR can be done 3 crew as long as is 15 hours or less.

O.I.C.

Standby for a new FCI, after the fact, calling JFK SLR and done with 3 pilots. Come oct/nov another FCI , update to ULR ops and it will include JFK

Yeah, but the 203 has never been operated 3 man crew, and thats as you say because of its start time. But that pattern even with 4 guys is pretty hard on the 1st operating crew.

As they say, keep recovering.

The Don

Jim,

That's my interpretation also, but I bet 'they' have got different ideas on the meaning!

I see that the 201 is back to 2 skippers again???

Possibly since more DEC joined!:}

weekly safety report
 

I have seen in the last weekly report a consistent increase in ASR due to fatigue.......

I am curious to see when finally something will change......de we really need an accident to get things changed?????
:ugh:

What a shame.......

Flare

Apparently a JFK was late awaiting connecting pax out of home base. Capt refused to go on discretion and informed FDM accordingly. Skipper + crew went home and scheduling had to pull out of reserve a fresh crew. Almost 3 hours delay on top of the initial one. That could be the reason behind 2 capts again on 201.

It is already on the table and will save roughly 100 upgrades...pushes upgrades back a bit I think

Dooner:(

If that turns out to be true, then staying here as an F/O is not much of an option. It is already a financial struggle on the F/O package with a family. :ugh:

Career advancement and a decent wage were the main reasons to justify leaving home. It certainly wasn't 'cause Dubai is a world class city in which to live!

Someone who seemed to have good intel regarding the whole ASR process, told me that the number of Fatigue ASR's is a key issue but the ratio of Fatigue ASR's to all other ASR's is also a factor.
In addition, the number of 'sick fatigue' days has gone through the roof in the past few months, which is another reason why Fatigue is finally becoming an issue and a problem, for our most senior managers.

Heard the NTSB is looking into the 2 FOs policy with the crash of AF330..

Well here we go folks as predicted by some, the latest FCI rewrite to the ULR Screwing issue states;
'' a ULR crew will normally comprise 2 captains and 2 first officers but may be revised to 1 captain and 3 first officers subject to the approval of DSVP-FO ''.

From FCI 2010-013 Para 1.10 ULR Generic Operational Plan (this week's version......), effective 26th April 2010.

"Heard the NTSB is looking into the 2 FOs policy with the crash of AF330.."

I believe this to be rubbish. NTSB has no authority over that investigation and U.S. airlines fly with 2 FOs in the cockpit at the same time (all have ATPs but are FO Qualified).

Nice try on the rumor mill but unless you have something concrete, this will be in the rubbish bin! Put this in the barrel with IRS audits of EK management!

Alive in D.C.

Did EK just change poilicy and allow its pilots to jumpseat??

...tcasguy...

All I know it is from a reputable source, a person I know who works for "Accident Investigation" @other.side.of.the.pond... and it IS on the table.. Difficult to put thru because of airline pressure...

Won't happen here cause SFOs are ATPs +10000h very experienced! and we never have 2 cadets flying together like AF... NO Sir!! :eek:

Will the NTSB be investigating the Polish Tu-154 incident as well?

:rolleyes:

Excuse my sarcasm.

Styo--read the thread man!!!!!!!!! He wrote the NTSB is investigating the concept of the 4 more crew with 3 FO's--not the accident itself.

I see that, but why the NTSB would be investigating the "concept" of that when there has been no recovery of data recorders from the AF447 accident does not make sense. Unless they know something that others don't.

He mentioned that the NTSB is investigating the 2 FO policy based on the AF incident. Why the NTSB would even be doing that based on an incident not in their airspace is not logical. Especially in the case where cause of accident has not been attributed to the 2 FO's...heck, there isn't even a definitive cause of accident yet!

Not the job of the NTSB

No, but I heard the FAA is constantly monitoring the situation concerning their airspace, as they basically should.

As EK tries to implement the 1/3 complement, it appears quite dubious that almost 50% of their FOs got rebuked on their upgrade at some stage.
This could paint a bleak picture of the quality of FOs that should act as PIC when the skipper is banned and blocked in the rear coffin. That might raise concerns at regulators of airspace we fly through daily!
(I for myself however think this is more of a plot to keep the bums on the RHS, as not enough are masochistic enough to apply at existing conditions. DECs from locos or regionals are much more eager to eat that c"@p and are therefore available).

At CX I fly all my ULH with 2 f/o's and a 2nd Officer (4 of us). I never leave HK knowing I will go into discretion and 99% of the Capts do the same.

Lots of airlines use a 1 Captain/2 or 3 F/O crew. However, most of them have the Flight Crew Rest somewhere near the front of the aircraft- where the makers suggested it should go. Emirates moved it so the pilots now face a considerable journey back to the flight deck.

As far as I'm aware, the airlines that use F/Os or even S/Os also have an additional training program for the people who will be acting as pilot in command while the Captain is on his break. This usually includes high altitude handling, engine fail at altitude, unreliable airspeed at altitude and various depressurisation/drift down scenarios. In short, all the stuff the crew are likely to face before the Captain can get back in his seat. Emirates gives the F/Os no additional training.

Big G,

EK FOs are given a high dive and a eng fail drift down from the lefthand seat as part of their training. Happened a few years ago.

The Don

The majority of FO's in EK are experienced guys and have done enough time to handle the an emergency relatively safely (I know there are a minority who are not capable of handling their coffee)

This means nothing when the company installs the CRC so far away from the cockpit that the captain has little chance of making it back to the flt deck in a reasonable amount time whilst being held responsible for the incident if he survives. What a great place to work. Captains = Underpaid Scapegoat, nothing more.

Pool

" ....almost 50% of their FO's got rebuked on their upgrade at some stage."

What utter bollocks you spout. Your figures are way out. Being that far off the mark, one must assume you are not even employed by EK. If you are, then shame on you for referring to your colleagues as 'their' FO's.

As much as I hate to admit it, you have taken over 411A as my most nonsensical poster. Congratulations! :bored:

Sorry to shake your Martini BYMONEK.

As I wasn't raised in your beatiful language, I still try to handle it correctly and as good as I can. Referring to 'EK' and then 'FO's in the same sentence, I thought 'their' was grammatically correct. Apparently not, then sorry, or it might be an attitude problem on the reader side, then shame on them.

As for the statistics, accept my apologies, I admittedly applied my personal one. The last 5 FOs I had the pleasure to team up with were ALL rebuked once! (Two were screwed by the suddenly increased hours, one by the transition upgrade scam, the two others single handedly by a renowned interview handler).

I am certainly not scientifically correct, so would you please jump in and give us your precise insight.

Thank you

pool,

I'm impressed.... You suggest EK might have a problem with it's FO's and you give 5 examples. 3 of the 5 were screwed by the company and 2 by our hotshot american who failed his upgrade twice and is now taking out his revenge during the interviews..... congrats man.

Sure there are some FO's with a doubtful reputation around, but on occasions I have seen some very interesting things originating from the left seat as well...
Me thinks you forgot that quite a few of 'your' FO's might have more P1 time than yourself.

Would you gents please read with your analytic cells engaged first before hitting out!

I wrote:
which means there is a probability that this might happen

only to clarify my own position thereafter:
which implies that I am not questioning the quality of FOs myself, doesn't it??

but then again, some only read into the matter what they want to read

Fligh High
 

Do you know that ((( ABBAS IBIN FIRNAS))) is the first aviator on earth
Abbas Ibn Firnas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
YouTube - Abbas Ibn Firnas an Amazigh (berber) scientist.
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8304 :)