Family life in Dubai?
 

I'm looking into Emirates, after 9 years of ExpressJet (a US Regional). I'm ready for a change, and none of the US majors are intriguing enough for me to leave ExpressJet. Really the only concern I have is my wife and kids being happy. She is up for the move but is naturally hesitant about life in the Middle East. I have three young girls (6,3,&1), and my wife doesn't work. I'm trying to get as much info on Dubai, cuz everyone knows if the wife isn't happy, no one is happy.

Thanks for the info.

Express sucks
 

Surprise you lasted 9 years :eek: I would choose the US majors, but depends on your situation, age etc. If your wife is flexible the sandpit is an option for a few years, you will gain experience in international operations, great destinations etc. For wife and family it is not a bad life provided your wife is open minded. Good schools, good shopping, plenty of help in the household (maids, cleaners, babysitters etc). I think it is a great choice, but only for a limited time, it is not a career here.

Read the earlier threads. They say it all in various ways.

First year. Fun, different and exciting
Second year. Somewhat disappointed but thinking things are temporary hitches
Third year. Feeling cheated
Forth year. Angry.
Fifth year. Dismayed. Anxious. Wondering why you did not see the obvious.
Sixth year. Damage control. Seeking an exit strategy.
Seventh year. If you haven't made an exit the rest is resignation, like a whipped dog accepting whatever may come. Hoping one day someone will leave the gate open and the way out becomes apparent....

I'm 33 years old and an offline check airman. I have a good schedule and make more than most 737 captains. I find myself a little bored and am looking for a change. EK would be a big change, I know I would love living in Dubai and my wife is very open minded, but it will be a big culture shock. This wouldn't be temporary for use, so another concern would be getting back to the US to see family. Right now our family lives half way across the country so we don't see them much. I'm sure we will see them even less if we move half way around the world.

We await with baited breath the publication of the March roster. Then we can answer your question. BIG, Big changes over here. New roster rules in force.

Getting back to the USA?

Well concorde isn't flying any more so.....

Perhaps not that often.

33 still young
 

However if your goal is the majors you are getting old. Make a decision NOW. Dubai is not a bad place to live, but no comparison to US or Europe. It will NOT be a career. Plan on 4-6 years for upgrade, another 2-3 years as captain then you might to move at around 42+. As I said not too bad, but plan around 6-9 years. Cheers Mate

Why do you say EK isn't a career? I know Dudai is in the desert, but how is the humidity? How is the company housing for pilots? Does Dubai have much in the way of family type activities?

Calcify...

I was in Dubai in September and it was quite hot and VERY humid. Since you're from the states, imagine what a Miami humidity feels like and add about 30-40 percent on top of that. I was surprised. I had spent some time down in Miami and it has never been over about 37 (100F) in Miami. Dubai goes well above 37 AND has the humidity. Of course, you don't spend a lot of time outdoors then.

I suggest you take a "fact finding" trip/tour to Dubai at some point to check it out for yourself. I did this and found I really enjoyed Dubai, but I was there as a tourist and didn't have to live there on a day to day basis... but I still liked it.

Cheers

K

Talking of wives, if a pilot is invited for an interview, which Gulf airlines provide tickets for the pilot AND their wife?

The pay cut and loss of QOL to go to a US major doesn't appeal to me. I'll stay at Express before going to a US major. Now EK's route structure and equipment does appeal to me, as well as the stability of being a government owned airline. I also like the idea of living somewhere completely different from anywhere I've been. I do not however what to jump around for the rest of my career so I was hoping to make a career of EK. I know no airline is perfect and I'm willing to work through the snags, but why am I hearing EK isn't a good career airline. Does EK pay for the wives to come out during the interview? If not I'll defiantly bring the family to Dubai before I make that big of a jump.

How is company housing for pilots with families?

Are you looking at a DEC position at EK or an F/O position? With the falling dollar and high cost of living in Dubai it can get a bit dicey based on posts on this forum. One thing you do have to keep in mind is that you will be gone a lot. If your wife ok with being alone with the three girls? Right now they are still young, but as they get older (puberty) they may perhaps get a lot of unwanted attention from local adults. As someone suggested, perhaps you can go there and see for yourself. On the other hand, when you go there, they will be serving you the company coolaid, which tastes pretty good initially. If you have never been to the ME and have no exposure to the culture, then do all the research before you dive in. For most, the intent is "career" but 2-3 years later, not so much.

It has been said before, but - my advice is to await the VERY interesting March schedule. It might be one of the stupidest changes they ever made, and will have an enormous impact on ppls lifequality here. Stay away until this is settled once and for all.

Nevrekar, I'm interested in an FO position. What is the change for the March roster?

Calcify - you remind me of a moth attracted to a candle. Do a search on this forum - your answers are there.
Ignore the info at your peril.
Oh, and if you do come here for a look, make sure it's May- Sep. 40+ with 80%+ Humidity. In April the temps go up dramatically, only dropping to a bearable range in late October.
The terms career and expat are mutually exclusive.

I don't think so many EK pilots moved to DXB because on one morning they woke up with the need to move and live the arab way of life. The point was easy money and easy life for westerners, with maids and king Fadh lifestyles.
Today there is inflation, traffic etc... and the job is just a pilot job, like in many airlines...and people are showing the real reason why they came... $$$$$

By the way, I'm not sure it is more risky to have teenage girls in DXB than is some other west places... locals are not rapping girls everydays...

Do you really want to expose your family to this?

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=314686

Moving to EK because you're bored? Probably the worst reason to risk your career & family to come to Dubai.

You're a check airman, do some checking. All that glitters is not gold and you won't have to scratch too hard to find out that it smells as well.

just don't do it...
 

...you won't be happy here. nor will your family be happy.
if you are still serious at it try to follow the advice of others: do a fact finding tour together with your family.

good luck!

(I fly longhaul on b744f for a european carrier. very happily and glad that I did not end up at the gulf...)

I guess that if your main concern about living in DXB is about carrying marijuana, then i guess your place is not there.
To enjoy the expat life you have to understand you are a kind of guest in a new country, with different cultures and traditions (good and bad ones).
It's not the question about it being the best place in the world, it's just about your ability to accept those differences.
DXB is a very very superficial place, but it's also one of the best multicultural environment (depending on how you think you can benefit from it). If you think it's just a question of coming to get some money from silly Arabs, then you'd better return to your own dreamland...

Air sinapsys,

You can get money from the silly arabs, and from the normal ones too!

just stay away..have a normal life. This place is hot, humid,caotic, noisy and becoming expensive. Money is not enough, life style...what life style? After a while you 'll start asking why you came especially if you have a good job in your country...so please stay away..and don't trust anybody in this forum... Keep recovering!

If you've never been to the middle east I suggest you take a vacation here with all your family.

Your wife and children may not like Dubai. Like many already said, this is not a career choice for the majority of pilots at EK. After a few months it'll be getting very boring.

Also EK is not anymore as it used to be...

What ? Hot and humid ? How come nobody told you before you move over there !?!?
Poor fellas...

Emirates,Dubai, Wife & Kids...
 

Calcify...seems that you're not getting much real info. I've been here more than 5 years now. Things have changed in all areas. Some for the good, some for the worse. EK housing is generally good. 4 bedroomed villas with all amenaties paid for. That area I am very happy with.
With the new max 14 days off we are all yet to see how that works but many may be upset with it. As an FO money may be tight as in you won't save a penny but as a Capt thigs get better very quickly.
Driving is dreadful. Dreadful. Third world mentality.
The job: new planes, varied destiations, some 9 day trips which are nasty but some nice trips too...JFK, PVG, SYD, JNB. As pilots we moan about everthing but generally this is not a bad place. My wife & children have a decent life here but she is a strong minded, independant girl who makes it happen.
Generally 3 years to command on 777 4 years on Airbrush. The FOs I fly with are pretty happy with their lot.
I like it here and have no plans to move.

I hear much about FO's being tight with the money. I have to ask a few questions. It has been my experience that pilots live ABOVE their means. Boats, motorcycles, seadoos, and the what not. I am coming over with my wife, we have no debt, and a plan financially. We have nothing in the states to take care of. Is this the case for many of the pilots in Dubai? I am not refering to the families that have brought their children.

I understand also that new hires aren't covered by the heath system provided by the company. Does this last 6 months? Our plan is to Cobra our present plan for the 6 months. Any thoughts?

We have planned for the temp housing when I arrive. Getting the starter pack, buying a bed, till we are placed in permanent housing. Then having the unit head back to the states for the hot months. What is the size of the temp housing? Is there any fees for my wife to travel to the states after 2 months of employment?

One last question, what about suggested banks? I don't need to transfer money, just access it when I want. More specifically, a bank that will issue a debit card that can be used on overnights, and in the US.

Internationalpilot, no need to reply, I already know what you are going to say.

Thanks,

Guns

Are you sure about that? I know that costs associated with pregnancy/birth have a qualifying period but you get (and have the premium deducted from your salary) a family healthcare insurance package.
Call up the recruiters - call them, now - it's nearly 11pm - they won't mind :}
Make sure of these seemingly small but important facts before you resign your seniority number. Trust me.

Both my wife and I heard it during the tour. You won't be covered during the first 6 months of employment. Of course, there could be a few qualifiers to this, but it was said. I could have meant the dependants, but I if anyone knows for sure, it would be nice to know.

Guns

Guns,
Did your wife go with you to Dubai?
If so, what did she do while she was there?
Any insight on the interview? Mine is in April.

Thanks for any info.
R or F

Unless it's changed, spouse/dependants covered by medical and dental from day 1 except for pregnancy and pre-existing conditions. Should be easy to check.

Also from what I remember from the recruitment session was that they suggest keeping your COBRA for 6mos. because you will be on probation aswell.

Stay away, keep your sanity and live a normal life. The place is false, stressfull, hot, dusty, smelly and NOT for family life if you and your family have a choice.

Dont do it, its not worth the strain it will put on your family!

Yeah..curious.
May be it is a case of Stockholm Syndrome... after a while you start simpathizing with your jailer...Let's be honest..I never flew with anybody really happy of being here and not thinking somehow to get out. Dubai notwithstanding all the marketing they are doing remains the most horrible place I have ever seen. Sand and cement, stupid dudes with hyper polluting cars trying to kill each others, middle age laws, beaches transformed in mega speculative project where no body will live. A place where they can conceive something like Dubai Marina.. the most horrible deserted stack of cement I have ever seen and compounds of badly built villas that looks like the set of the Prisoner....but at Montecarlo prices.
The all project is dated and based on the misconception that humanity will continue in this direction without any toll to pay. Wrong..the toll is on his way... Emirates is part of this project and in the long term their mega hyper airports will be deserted and the mega airplanes they ordered will probably stay on the tarmac. Sooner than that day they will not be able to find indians willing ot work for them for free and pilots for half the money...and that will be the start of the end.
Cause the secrets of present succes of Emirates and Dubai are two:
exploitation and oil
They pay worker on the tarmac a ridicolous 300 400 dollar per month.. while in civilized lets say Europe its at least 3000 euros including tax and pension. And pilots what ? Half of what, lets say, Lufthansa pays. A Lufthansa captain cost at least 15 to 20000 euros per month to the company inlcuding tax and pension...living in a free speech country ,with all civil rights and a real pension not sharja law and Emirates joke fund
Sustaining all this with the incredible profits of oil it is easy. Before the first gulf war it was 20 $ a barrel now is 100$...and take a look at when the big expansion of this place started. It paid off well.
And you really believe they pay kerosene at market price? What a joke.
The all lot, Dubai and Emirates is just marketing and appearance, making you believe something that doesn't exist or it's plain false with shining light and special effects.
There is nothing like a lifestyle in Dubai...it is a cemented, noisy, piece of desert reaching incredible temperatures and humidity for 8 months a year and being so .. you can have mirage. The all story is nothing more then a mirage... Add to all of this hyper inflation..skyrocketing prices and you can understand why I stongly suggest you .. don't be fooled like I was.. if you are not desperate.. fast track your life... stay home!!!!

My understanding is that less than 10% of Dubai's GDP is from oil...

It couldn't be stated any better:

"Dubai notwithstanding all the marketing they are doing remains the most horrible place I have ever seen. Sand and cement, stupid dudes with hyper polluting cars trying to kill each others, middle age laws, beaches transformed in mega speculative project where no body will live!":=

Spot on - it's just a matter of time 'til this fata morgana on greed and dis-honesty will disappear again in the sand - love it or leave it - my C.V.s are sent out - this is going to be my last year here - you bet:E

Cyberbird, my feelings exactly!

Must be out by year's end..................

:rolleyes: There's a quality piece of advice! :rolleyes:

We have a saying "cockroach don't have business in a fowl's yard".


Calcify you have to take what you read here with a grain of salt. Half these people have never even been here, for all we know they might be some 14 year old on dad's computer.

EK has it's growing pains, but compared to a US regional, it will be an improvement. After 9 years you'll definately have less days off, but might end up spending just as much time with family. There are plenty opportunitites in training which will allow you to be home even more. The route structure in interesting and equipment well maintained. The growth potencial is also a plus.

The deciding factor for you will probably be your families take on Dubai. It's a city that's growing at a very fast rate, which will be nice in 30 years when it's done, but in the meantime the constant road works, traffic, noise, and dust can get old. They try to make all the services and utilities first class, but they all seem to have a catch that drag them back into the dark ages. You will cuss the phone company and banks on weekly basis, as they just can't get things right. Depending on which part of the states you're from, driving can be heavily on the defensive side.

There are things to do still. The new housing projects being built are conductive to the pilot's wifes getting togerher, and the neighbourhoods good for kids your age to ride a bike around and play with other kids. Since maids are inexpensive, your wife might get bored soon. So if she's not going to work she will need a hobby after the kids get older.

If I were you I'd come out for the selection process, buy your wife a ZED fare on the same flight as the one EK will book you and have a look. Unless you know someone here that can show you around, EK tour is quite lame, so rent a car an have a look around. Then decide.

Good luck.

...and introduce her to one of the joys of EK staff travel from Day One... as she watches you and your flight taxi out on its way to (and/or from) Dubai... from the staff travel check in desk... which, unless you choos very carefuly, on 90% of EK flights, is about as far as she will get with a ZED, ID90 or any other kind of subload ticket.

very entertaining...
 

...to read all the posts in various pprune threads of all those folks who have made the decision to move to the sandpit and still defend their career move.

even more entertaining to see some people disqualify the opinion of colleagues who have seen it all and who cannot recommend this place.

(we do have layovers in kuwait, doha, dubai and abu dhabi, just to name a few. so i know what i am talking about. and i have friends at ek too...)

i understand that they have to find the positive sides of being with emirates and living in the desert, dust, dirt and hot climate...
...because they have made this (poor) decision!

otherwise they would feel very bad every time they look into the mirror. :ugh:

my advice is still valid:
have a thorough look at this nightmare before you move to this place!

Rwy24c ... a VERY personal opinion ... !!!

I think DXB/AUH have a lot of lifestyle advantages, but it is a personal opinion! No one can tell another individual whether they would enjoy/endure life there. I certainly would go to the UAE before Germany! Even for half the money!