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Upgrades suspended in QR ?
Dear Sirs,
seems like QR has suspended the command interviews. Guys who are coming up did not start the pre-Interview scenario (assessment flights, pre-command course ) and the reason for that seems that the commands are put on a halt due to F/O shortage on the 330 and 320 fleet. Many flights already leaving with 2 captains in the seats. Guys on the right hand seat are looking for greener pastures and a lot of guys are willing to leave for faster command somewhere in asia. So after stopping right to left 330 they created another bottleneck. Wonder how they are going to respond.Management already thought about getting guys with no experience in the right hand seat and flying them as second officers but with "normal line captains". Interesting how QR with their new management are going to respond to this development in the times after L.M. and A.J. Regards G.L. |
What can I say? What can I say?
All I can see is that it does not look good at all, in any aspect! Once more, the CEO is getting involved in Flight Ops decision making. In the past this has always lead to the wrong results! Blocking FOs in the right seat will just aggravate the entire problem, as the experienced FOs will leave for greener pastures and fast track upgrades. As a result the seats will be filled with useless captains from god knows where ( just look at the relationship between the rising number of incidents on all fleets vs the number of low quality DEC intakes) and unexperienced FOs/SOs or whatever you want to call them. In general, the level of the training department will sink even lower.... And as a result, the holes in the swiss cheese will finally all line up and we ALL know what that means! I have given this outfit several years of my life, hoping it will pay of at the end! If all these rumours are the truth, I am afraid I have made an incredibly wrong decision! Time to do some damage contraol and throw in the towel while its not too late... I do not want to go looking for a job once the airlines name is blemished due to incredibly POOR management... :( |
Dear Sgnr,
well said. Same here,looking like the standard has reached a level I never believed being possible in an airline that is operating worldwide. We always thought "they" would realize how dangerous the game is they are playing, but no response. Right now everybody acts with "eyes wide shut" and if incidents turn into (god forbid) accidents we will be the ones being blamed. As we witness the level of english degrading in the middle eastern airlines ( even in EK who always did a bit better than the rest ), we also witness a degree of resignation and desperation that is hard to believe. Let's see if the caravan starts moving further east or if the ME airlines are finally forced to slow their groth and consolidate (which I don't believe). Regards G.L. |
what do you mean
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I do confirm the aforesaid. The general moral is in it's extreme low especially with the senior f.o. They guys seem to be very and I mean VERY tense waiting for some kind of information coming from the office. As usual the managers keep calm too busy with their politics. The situation slowly GETS OUT OF CONTROL.... Everywhere else the airlines are luring f/o with upgrade perspectives but QA tries to pee against the wind.:ugh: The results are foreseeable experienced fo will leave creating even bigger shortage causing the airline to fly with two captains. Is that safe.... NO cost efficient....NO
What to do will be the answer once again, I suppose. |
I heard on the grape vine that maybe some of the upgrades may not happen as it has something to do with some consultants they have in at the moment who have told the CEO that they have too many pilots. Interesting I wonder where they come up with that.... statistics they pulled from somewhere.
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It is always generally less expensive to hire a direct entry Captain than upgrade First Officers.
Always has been, always will be. Now, for this to work properly, said DE Captains have to be offered sufficient compensation...money talks, BS walks.:} |
411A,
That doesn't make sense. How can something always be generally, if, as you say: Always has been, always will be. |
Too many pilots in Q.A.....??...well maybe they are anticipating a new wave of resignation....:ouch:
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NEWDOHA
normal Consultant speak, not enough crews boss, they take their $ then buggar off to leave it to someone else to fix the mess they left behind.. Its not the Greek mafia is it? :\ |
Right to left
I heard that on last meeting all upgrades are delayed becouse of new jojning pilots which have to start flying soon . It will take some 60 days to clear 11 new pilots than only and maybe with a blessing from CEO upgrades will continue and its not a first and last time that upgrades are posponed becouse of new jojning pilots .It make sense new pilot is on ground waiting for line training and on salary while F/O s is flying while waiting for upgrade so which one has priority ? So when you calculate youre time to promotion after all sim checks and 3y and no warning letters and count that at the moment QR has more than 450 F/O s so youre time by the S list is there you must add at least 1y delay for those new jojners taking youre sim slots .
At the moment new jojning F/Os can get left seat in 8y . Its ok if you compare it with Lufthansa or BA or Delta . |
That could be very well true, and if you have a management which is primarily Myopic (close sighted), than yes, that’s how one would react!
On the long run, decisions like this could prove to be catastrophic, as now you are chasing your experienced FO’s away! Some of them have been lied to for over 6 years now. Promises have been made by several managers towards their upgrades but still they are waiting! (Yes guys and gals, you are reading it correctly! I have met several FOS with 4 digit staff numbers starting with a 3, expatriate, still waiting for their upgrades! Good pilots with a clean record) These guys have lost their patience and trust in this management. The only reason why they where staying is that promised selection date. Once this date has gone by, there is literally nothing left to keep them here. Vueling just did a road show in Doha: fast track commands on A320 where the main temptation/ Jet Airways did a road show in Doha: Various promises made, including an upgrade after a year for those who join type rated on A330 or B777 EY is pro-actively calling people at QR, with upgrade promises after 6months-1 year if you have the right qualifications. (heheheh, do you think some of the guys QR chased away in the past are taking revenge by helping the current pilot poaching activities a little bit??) It is time the QR management starts to wake up and act pro-actively as well! All they have been doing so far is damage control; nobody is looking further than 1 month ahead except the commercial department! THEY have a fleet plan until 2020! I have seen it, it looks VERY ambitious but unless things change over here, it will stay a far fetched dream! C'mon guys......be different for a change! You are looking to attract pilots, be inventive!
Perfectly possible within our current contracts. 6 weeks on/2 weeks off can be achieved instantly with exactly the same days off/year as we have now available to us. The advantages are enormous, both for the company as well as for the crews. And on top of that, QR would be able to attract huge amounts of new pilots if they where the first ones to do this in the Gulf. Lets face it, with the current inflation rates, Doha getting very busy and at the same time stays boring…VERY VERY FEW PEOPLE REALY WANT TO LIVE HERE!
Promised to us for over 4 years now. Was given to the Qatari pilots only because of severe legal pressure from the government. Why is it SOOOO difficult to do like any other serious company in the world, and give a pension fund/retirement scheme or profit sharing. Make sure people become loyal employees and give them a reason to stay longer!
Ensure all flights are evenly and equally distributed among the pilots, and there is no more room for corruption! The system we have now is founded on typical Indian corruption practices, where bribes are common and Mafia style group forming is the rule!
A since long discussed topic. Unfortunately a very remote option as this would take away all the controlling powers of the management, and it would severely reduce the spending of money by crews in the Qatari economy. It would be THE solution for many of QR’s woes…. Many more options are available for those who really want to find a solution. But that’s exactly the question… Do THEY realy want to solve the problem on the long run or do we just want those shiny birds to fly, praying to god (whoever that may be to you) that nothing will happen on this day!!! Tomorrow is another day so no worries! |
...and some kind of currency exchange protection will become necessary asap as well if it continues like that with the crash of the U$.......:ugh::{
Good point regarding the roster...yes send home the corrupted shaking head gang mafia, and put instead professional people working in the interest of the company ! |
May I ask some simple questions?
Why would you want a command upgrade with that airline anyway? Is the job much different, or is it same ****e different hat? Will more stripes make you more proud to wear the same badge? Is it just the money??? Is this as good as it gets? Can you not do better?? For career satisfaction, this is a short dead end street. Have some self respect and give the chief the bird salute. |
...Well...the benefit of being a cpt is that at least the day you may ever decide to resign....yes..this kind of think happens in Q.A....:ouch:, your end of service benefit is higher (as it is based on the basic salary)....:\
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Bags packed
If all i read is true, i will be gone in three months once i secure my upgrade with another airline. I think i have wasted to many years already. Thanks guys i have enjoyed flying with most but lately haven`t enjoyed baby sitting the substanded Dec.:ok:
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100% is correct for QR
I have been with the airline for 4years now, and everything what said shneidertrophy is 100% is correct , :ugh:
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Apparently many poor bastards signed a US$50000 bond, for a lowly get anywhere for US$25000, A320 P2 Rating??
A conspiracy grows.... Where they drugged? Where they tortured? Were these poor bastards at the end of their road with nowhere else to go?? Please explain how this happened??? Congratulations again to the Goat for screwing down and exploiting the most vulnerable. :eek::{:yuk::( |
Left Seat
Man 2003 Om (A) for locals (Qatari ) pilots 4500h and for others 5000h to command . And only after Qatari pilot had crash with Indian dispetcher Qatari and locals 5000 h .
If you jojning some airlinesyou should know that on intervew thay will make things look better than it is so you should aske ar research more . And is it strange if on intrervew thay tell you 1 y to upgrade and you know for a fact that therre are 150 F/O s ahead of you ! So how long it take to figure that 1y year is a joke ? No more promotions my friend becuse new management new rules . There is 25 F/O s waiting for god s blessing . And after that new management need to hire there friends DEC from previous airlines . So it will take years . Sorry to say but we are in deep **** ! I can say only 1 word : ETIHAD |
Well the all company is in the hand of ONLY one Man (AAB), and depending of his mood when he woke up in the morning, his decision can be black or white...(this is for point nr 3)...
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for once I have to agree with PITA man...ETIHAD is becoming an increasingly temptative alternative!
While the current management is hiding behind closed doors, waiting untill the new team takes over in 2008, the frustration is growing among everybody! Lately I havent done 1 single flight, without somebody complaining! LM...well well....he was caught pants down, flirting with the people from thales while cashing in on his bonus! This and other fraudulent activities are being held against him. Appaerently his family was planning to take over the company, all of them are under investigation now! Will be replaced by a brit apparently...guy with no longhaul experience but affiiliated to the UK CAA. The Nigels are coming! AJ...resigned and allegedly out of the office in 2008! Questions remains...who will replace him.? senior guys and 777....well, CEO wanted only people with widebody experience to go on the 777. Both Ticma and vasgo have no widebody experience, except for the respectable size of their bellies! Is this a correct reason...I dont think so! Can we do anything about it....NOPE! Massive it will be indeed.....Effective waits to be seen....long lasting for sure not, as the average lifespan of a management guy here is about 12 months! ( except the boss and SSS) HAPPY HALLOWEEN! |
Indeed, all of this is very concerning news. The whole pack of cards seems close to falling-in, unless some drastic measures are taken.
All the woes are now spreading like wildfire outwith the airline itself, and the last thing anyone on the upper floors wants is for the SLF (via media conduits) to start to know just what is going on within the "Military junta-esque" managed Qatar Airways. This is something like a step back into the dark ages. All these stories of prison-cell like living for the cabin crew, coupled with a "take it or leave it" attitude that the management has with its pilots, does NOT make for safe and happy flying. The only thing that seems to be missing from the scene are stocks and handcuffs. As humans, we all have limits of toleration. As a customer, we like to have the warm, fuzzy feeling that the Commander of the aircraft is well paid, well rested, highly motivated and thoroughly enjoys what he does. Most of all, we like to feel that he will be able to command his aircraft skillfully in the event of an emergency. Same goes for the Cabin Crew. Reading half the stuff on these boards about how badly QR commanders and co-pilots are treated, and how the cabin crew (who are adults, after all) are made to live under conditions that can only be described as draconian, makes one wonder what all of this must be doing to your mental health and physical well-being. (I say this out of concern and empathy, and not criticism or nastiness). And all because of one man's insatiable greed and imbalanced ego................ Good luck to y'all. |
-Pilots well paid....? Not anymore(inflation, crash of the qatari riyal/U$...).
-Pilots well rest....? Not always!(due to the unsafe roster, 3 or 4 night flighs in a row with minimum rest, is something common here, roster gang are still thinking that people are like a machin that can be switch on or off on demand...!!),Have to admit that i operated some flights very tired,including my colleague who was in the same kind of shift....Good..as long everything is ok....but should any emergency or abnormal circonstance occur during the flight, i honestly have some doubt about the safe issue of the flight with such a high level of fatigue! But i guess our roster team is not really able to think further than legality..! |
A300Man
A very good post. As with any developing country or company that grows larger and increases its profile internationally it conversely has to contend with increased scrutiny from the outside world. Al Baker is giving Qatar and the Qatari's a bad name everywhere. The only way forward for this airline is without him. I can only pray the powers that be will make that decision ASAP. Its been too long coming. |
A300man and Cavelino
Well said, :D
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Well said indeed!
Only one solution......We all know what it is....But will it ever happen? All things said here are 100% true, but they are only the tip of the iceberg! Most of the things going on around here are not suitable at all for a public forum, as it would scare the hell out of non-professional readers. And our beloved 9th floor management allready has a legal action running against this site and certain of its users... FREEDOM IS NOTHING ELSE BUT HAVING NOTHING LEFT TO LOOSE! |
Only plausable solution to the Hairy Goat Problem is maintenance of painful pressure. Do not relent. Never tell lies, but continue to Load The Dice..... Chance and endemic incompetence will do the rest.
What do ya mean? Very naive, if you believe all posts about the circus are just emotional rants. Load it up.... |
We do not maintain that all they do is wrong, but we do insist that what they are doing can be an occasion of many future evils. hopefully the CEO enjoys 5 star service often enough to realize that a silver cutlery isn't enough to conduct a safe flight.... needless to comment
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you need to collectively approach Emirates to strike up a deal , they could employ all of your pilots who m:mad:ake the grade. Have the balls and resign .
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EY,EK or QR
EK,EY or QR
All of them have problemas,but everybody knows that they got the best packages around,so it´s your decision where to go. KF |
QR
Its sad that almost all experianced cabin crew have resigened in last 30 days and leaving QR to Etihad becouse of stupid memo restrictions on going out of accomodation during off or on duty days . Yes we will be 5 star super stars but with inexperianced girls getting 2y experiance and going to Emirates or Etihad. It is known that we are getting pilots which fail in Emirates and Etihad and QR is bottom of line option but its there.
All this becouse of one man AAB . For AAB its more important to have jacket buttoned than to have safe landing . Good Mr AAB see you have many HARD LANDINGS ha ha ha ! Pilots can cost a lot if thay get angre at you ! You give us warning letters and we will make you pay ! |
:ugh:So,
14 Captains resigned from the A330/A340 fleet in the last month A330 is running about 45 F/Os short of normal ops at the moment Almost ALL senior F/Os are in the process of taking big decisions due to the fact that upgrades are suspended UFN On A320 a lot of guys are eying EY because no more fleet transfers from A320 to A330 and EY would give them mixed fleet flying! Whoever is left on the A300 is pissed of because some guys where allowed to go on 777, and this decision has been made based on personal preferences of their chief pilots rather than being based on seniority! The guys left behind have no more option left whatsoever... On A340 the dream might be over soon. If the B777 takes over the IAD route there wont be no more roster flexibility left to give them 8 days OFF in a row and they will be back to 60hr roster patterns doing BKK and LHR. Massive exodus is happening at the cabin crew side of things ever since that new megalomaniacal rule has been announced regarding the curfews! So all normal people are indeed leaving, again lots to EY, where a normal life awaits them! In flight Ops in general all the so called "managers " are on some sort of strange leave, as everybody is waiting for this new management and the OLD guys do not want to take any decisions anymore. Nothing is being done at the moment.... When are these people EVER going to learn how to run an airline? When will somebody realise that one man can not manage 7000 emplyees on his own? When will this one man realise that he is being lied to on a daily base due to the fact that he rules by fear, and so all bad news is shielded from him? This company is digging itself in deeper and deeper, while the neighbours such as EK, EY and even GF are taking massive jumps foreward! Its just a disaster waiting to happen, and only very few people are responsible for this!:ugh: |
Short detour off the poste
Dose the old agreement of NO POACHING between QR&EK still stand
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If they(amateur roster gang) continue with those kind of unsafe roster(accumulation of night flight with minimum rest....)..yes for sure a disaster will happen one day, when i see the level of fatigue of some crew(including myself..).:ugh:
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qr
guys, it is easy to blame the crewing dept but remember we only have a certain amount of flight deck to roster and believe me we dont have enough (even though the consultants say there is too many). But yes there is some problems in rostering dept but they are trying.:ugh:
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QR
Just to get this wright,if you go as an FO in QR,there is no chance for upgrade??
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New fo JOINING QR
the problem of joining qr as FO ,is that the Airline will not take into consideration your previous jet experience for upgrade ;if you accept a ground instructor job ,you have 3 months per year less to do in your seniority ;but if you got 8000 hours including thousands of jet time ,doesnot matter ,this is why many experienced fo is considering to leave the airline ;experienced fo will be upgrade in 6 months joining a low cost airline ,fast track do not exist here for experienced fo;new joiner will take a minimum of 6 years ,ok if you got 3OOO hours ,not 8000 !
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I don't know what the fuss is all about.
QA is a wonderful airline. You are paid well, conditions of service are compatible, and you are flying the youngest fleet in the MidEast. What I really object to, is some racist remarks in this forum which implies "If you are not a native English speaker, you can not and should not fly an aeroplane, or your standard is low". My reply is: Get the F@&K back down under where you belong, and don't ever think that you are a good aviator. You are good if you can get a good job in your own country, and since you are working here...... Try applying to other airlines, I can guarantee you would be sacked within six months. Don't nag, just do your jobs and shut up or L E A V E.... God Bless you all. |
If Q.A. is such a wonderfull airline as you pretend..., can't really understand the huge number of resignation we have every year here..anyway..:\
'well paid.....'....well maybe..but the only problem: my salary has been devaluated by 40% the last years by the sink of the Qatari riyal...just 40%..,Did you noticed the inflation in Doha as well,the highest in the gulf,almost 13%...!! |
Nice post Nunny!
Did you come up with that one yourself? SCAM ALERT! Tread hijacking warning... |
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