MC Cavok,

Well, you obviously are on the B777 fleet. Looking at your previous posts (all 4 of them.. lol) I noticed that you joined in November 2005, so you're ONLY one year in the company, and already whining about possible upgrade delays because your Airbus COLLEAGUES who have been in the company for nearly four years might take a seat on the B777.

First of all, you should be ashamed of your attitude, it's people like you who give pilots a bad name, moaning about something where there should be absolutely nothing to moan about.

Second, In about two years time, there will be B777 deliveries, hence upgrades on the B777. Meanwhile the A380 will arrive, so no Buspeople on the B777 anymore. If you do the math, you should know that you won't be delayed because of a few Airbus guys (more senior than you) joining the Boeing fleet now.

Third, if you absolutely want to ventilate your concerns, why not join the forces and write to TCAS and Ed about the total lack of career planning caused by the DEC's that join? They are the JUNIOR guys that take up your place! I know that up to now, nothing happens because of people writing, and you might call me an optimist, but the more people write about their concerns, the more the chances that something might happen. (ok, call me a very big optimist, on drugs or whatever...)

Fourth, your attitude is exactly what EK managers aim for with their divide and conquer strategy. United we stand, divided we'll fall...

This is not a personal attack, just wondering what the hell you are thinking.. And yes, I'm one of the F/O's on the bus...

MR8

MR8
 

Pull your head in.
He was just asking a question

MC Cavok,
why to hell did you join EK, it was already s**t 2003, don't complain now, wait in line another 5 years.

EK upgrades
 

Anyone wonder why EK still upgrading guys on the airbus from the bottom up?
I thought the latest policy was to follow the list in "seniority" order... did I miss another FCI or News Letter??

Seniority who? He doesn't live here. You'll have to go back to the civilized world to find that guy. :{

For example, irrelevent left seat time flying for a charter companies like coconut airways ( :8 ) will serve you well here and allow you to jump the list on the numerous other qualified pilots from major carriers. It makes perfect sense. :ugh:

Any contact details for Coconut Airways?

Don

I can totally agree with the frustrations but surely you can't call charter company command time irrelevent !!

It seems to me that charter Commanders fly all over the world in widebody aircraft with little or no support from main base, its a case of get on with it and make it happen. Not to mention flying into many airfields with poor nav/app aids etc
Its all good stuff for experience and stands them in good stead for future commands.

As i say, it shouldn't mean a quick command at EK but I would say its good experience not irrelevent.

Good Luck

Contact details for Coconut Airways

Captain Tobias Wilcock
Grantley Adams International Airport,
Seawell,
Christchurch,
Barbados

+1246 428 7101

Hey Fellas

what about that Aussie outfit....Don'ttakeadingo Airways base out of Woollamaloo, just up from sheep-daggs creek.:cool:

I heard they are hireing....apparently all their guys are know at EK upgrading :E

Hey Southern man why dont you become a SFI or something in the mean time.


TR:ok:

Don'ttakeadingo is now a dumping ground for Kiwis TR. So the quality from this outfit has taken a huge dive. Rumour has it they might be wet leasing to AIR NZ in the short term though, so not sure if any will be heading to EK now.

Don

Well Don

you maybe onto something..........it will just mean Air New Zealand will have to buy them out for a very large sum of money .......and loose millions in the process ............ then they will ask Team New Zealand for a loan ..........which will make Air New Zealand a subsidary of EK. :D

They will then merge seniorities and EK will become Emirates New Zealand and have 5 different pay scales for the pilots and cabin crew.......and the boys from the Land of the long white cloud, working out of Sheep Dagg Creek, will be back where they started..........living in Auckland looking at redundencey:{


TR:ok:

Well, you guys know how to spin the globe, Australia, New Zealand, and Barbados, what's next, Senegal?

So, about EK, was not the latest "policy" to upgrade in order of seniority? If so, then why all the junior guys on the upgrade course now?

An hey, Broken Cola, what is an SFI or something?

Giovane....

I'm sure you get the point....sure it's relevent, but the ex major airline chaps are essentially being penalized. Charter pilots have access to quick command and are therefore eligible for these out of seniority policies. It's wrong.

Southflyer...Junior guys on AB are going to the 777, having this previous charter command experience to circumvent the seniority list.

Would charter LHS on the A330 or B767 be irrelevant?

Not for this..
" Position Vacant - Pastry Chef, our client is a 5 star rated hotel in the Middle East and they are urgently requiring a Chef with experience in all types of Pastry (Puff and Shu essential). The successful applicant must be team orientated, imaginative and self motivated. At least 5 years experience as a Pastry Chef is essential. Preference will be given to applicants with Left Hand Seat charter time A330 or B767

I flew with a DEC a month ago that had no previous wide body time, and HAD NEVER HAD AN OVERNIGHT TRIP.. But he did bake one hell of a puffy shu-**** doughnut..!

I am actually serious about the first part.. The pastry wasn't that good:ooh:

saltaire,
If you really think flying a widebody around the world into a plethora of destinations , in all weathers, to all manner of undeveloped airfields with only a mobile phone for support thinking on your feet, hands on etc etc etc etc is insufficient training for command in micromanaged airline, then sir you are an arrogant t0sser. Also these guys are already indoctrinated. The politics of ek policy notwithstanding your arguement is bolox

Learning ek routes is the same as learning any routes, not a seperate licence matey. Command ability is not defined by timed served at ek.
You are a disgrace to your fine colleagues.

Your chippy view of what happens these days in this industry is indicative of a probable self opinion far in excess of your experince or indeed the opinion of your checkers.:ok:

Previous comand experience
 

Dear all,

I think that previous command experience is valuable.
It does not matter where this command has been done.
The only thing is that maybe it is even more important to have respect of the seniority list.
All the ek pilots deserve the chance to become captain, ( this is why most of us joined).
I flew with many DECs and they were all nice persons to work with.
The problem is that if Ek management will continue to act as they are now, they will continue to loose credibility and no other experience pilots will join unless they are desperate.

flare

One thing not to forget guys....


many pilots in Qatar Airways are looking in your direction. 40 reprtedly are awaiting a slot at EY and a group as well is waiting a slot in EK.

And yes, we do have normal sane pilots with good skills. Agreed, they are becoming a rather rare commodity in the QR pool of pilot genes but they still exist...

ME management is the same everywhere...sad to see the sandpit is only that....a sandpit!

Take a chill pill guys (that means you wee one) - by all means continue the debate but please let's have a little more mutual respect.

Remember; if shouting about it isn't going to change anything, is it really worth getting all hot under the collar about it in the first place?

Carry on please.

4HP

Guys

please please please......:ugh: we have to accept a very real fact about working at EK. .........and that fact is........ we are all contract pilots. I have said this before and will say it again. I have signed a contract with EK that says nothing about being promoted let alone in seniority.

My contract from a couple of years ago will surely be different from guys joining today. Its an idividual contract and that is just the way they like it. :cool:

EK are expanding at a great rate and the commands are coming thick and fast at. It may not be at the pace you had hoped or like....but they are coming. The 380 is just around the corner and when it arrives you will all be toooooo busy to complain here....:E

over and out.

TR:ok:

Wee little man...

Not the point you dolt, it's about a flawed, unfair and inequitable process creating division within the group. As mentioned below, they are hiring DEC's with no widebody command with little or no international exposure.

Pass on the donut :ugh:

Saltaire.
I think everybody agrees with your sentiment that the whole process of CMD distribution at EK is flawed. ( unless your the guy getting the quick command of course !)

I feel the main gripe people have is the belittlement of charter command.

You can't give the charter guys who get the quick commands grief, or suggest there previous experience is irrelevent, you gotta give EK management grief for allowing it to happen!!( especially the DEC's who are from S/Haul no nightstop background!)

I still really feel that with the continued expansion at EK and the imminent arrival of the A380, there will be enough commands for everyone who's a half decent operator and been in the sand pit for more than three years, in the next 18 months or so.

I can understand your frustrations

Good luck

When do the 1st A330's start departing??

330's were to start to leave in 07, but that is more or less delayed due to the 380. 332/334/345 staying much the same level until at least 2010 as per trng meeting.
what fleet is upgrading out or senority? AB has posted or advised those upgrading into 08 ( not sure of the numbers ). 3 year guys still go first. the AB is at about 4 years at the momment and they are working throughthe list as fast as they can.Boeing is a different storey. there is AB accell upgrade guys going to the boeing and there is transition upgrade ( abit goofy) AB to B.
The company cant train any faster than its doing and trying to wet lease training from all 4 corners but guess what? everyone is too busy training. Stand by for parked airplanes.
Still good product coming to EK.
You will only read the negitive here on pprune.
Dubai is not near as nice at it was a few years back but EK still not that bad.
Biggest draw back right now for me would be 8 days off a month and bagged all the time, that in itself would cause lots off neg remarks.
There is also a lot of pilots that have done there time and want to go home.

Finally some facts

thanks Fatbus. :E is it true the A380 is due now around April. and there is going to be a 100 aircraft order at the Paris airshow


TR:ok:

Giovane,

Agreed, well said.

EK DEC Program coming to an end next month???
 

I've heard from my two EK sources that the DEC program may very well be shutting down in March. They say March will be the last month they interview for DEC's.

Can any of you other EK guys out there in DXB land know anything yay or nay on the subject... TP, anyone???

Thanks

Capt737AA

Did you get interviewed? Or are you looking at Etihad.

It is coming to an end so we don't have to put up with pilots like you Capt American. We don't need the likes of you and your coharts at our airline.

They must have needed them or else they wouldnt have hired them, and unless you are Emirati there "cerbus", it's not your airline anyway..if you are Emirati then pls accept my apology..

There is a lot to be negative about here in Dubai and working for Emirates that is true mate. However none of the negativity is baseless or even lies. Pilots are speaking with their emotions but they telling the truth and that is what drives SC like Typhoon Pilot and Captain America nuts. Deal with it SC, we are doing our best to deal with it.

How very naive, Ek will continue as long as they can get suitable DEC's. That there in lies the problem.......

So you poor souls from the good ol Yooo Esss of Ayyy will still have the chance to show the middle east how good you are.

Don't worry be happy......:)

saltaire,

I have no arguement with your poor mangaement practices. I also have no arguement that short haul domestic US recruits may not be suitable for DEC vis a vis the operation at EK .

I do have an issue with the fact that you generalise about Charter experience.

My wide body command time in a chater company is more than enough qualification for ek.Its the same flying without the support. I chose not to accept a DEC offer because It didnt sit right with my own personnal principles, not to avoid annoying some chippy f/o without the nouse to read an expat contract properly..What worries me is the arrogance of random chaps whose only experience of wide body is the micromanaged enviroment at ek , where they seem to think 3 years of nodding and smiling is substitute for a broader experience.

They are as in equal in number at ek as the genuinely aggreived experienced chaps getting shafted.Therefore negate the eficacy of the arguement of the genuine cases.

PS 4hp is that chilled enough? Beauts :ok: Thank you. 4HP

Why apologise? If he is Emirati then the reason he's driving a Lamborghini / Ferrari / Range Rover etc. is that the expat population, which is 90% and rising in Dubai, has been asked to come on in, enjoy the sunshine and make the local Emiratis as much money as possible. And hey, it worked! Apologise? No way!

"It is coming to an end so we don't have to put up with pilots like you Capt American. We don't need the likes of you and your coharts at our airline."

Ummm, if by "cohart" you mean American, well maybe you will get you wish as Delta, FedEx, UPS, Continental, Southwest and others start to hire..

The Americans will leave to go back into the First World, make more money and live where you wish you could, and then be replaced by more "Experts" from South America and Malaysia.. Have fun mate!!:ok:

Yes I do agree...the US industry is rebounding and recalls/new hires are starting again at the legacy carriers think Delta has recalled most or all..United and American in progress, USAirways as well....sure most will go home, some undoubtedly will bypass and stay until it gets to the point of biting into their seniority then the choice has to be made...and it's "cohOrt" btw cerbus...and I'm sure they agree with you...

777,
your open racism really qualifies you.. I bet you don't even know where some of the countries you have mentioned are on the map (like.. 'is there something outside the US?').. but for sure you know how to locate the nearest Mc Donalds..
Probably your transfats filled brain missed the whole point of discussion in this thread..

smell a bit of that in u as well "mumbai radio" lets not lose track of the thread...I am a 15 year expat yank..and sometimes cringe at the attitudes of my countrymen as well...what to do?? Dont paint us all with the same brush...you might be treated the same way some day..anyway...if the topic is accurate the f.o.'s there might now have a light at the end of the tunnel..lost opportunity for the likes of myself..but better for the folks there...have a nice day:)

Okay Wee One,


I think Saltaire gets the point :cool: