2 new DEC on EK 777
 

Just noticed that 2 DEC's had just joined EK......on the Boeing!:(

Can anyone else confirm if this is fact?
There again even if it is the EK pilot community will, as ever, do absolutely nothing about it. Sorry to be cynical, but after 8 years you learn to know the score.
Nice of the management to keep us updated though!!:ok:

EK said 4 years ago that they will hire DEC's and it was all over the internet.
Don't tell me you didn't do a little market research before you joined.
By the way it was also on pprune that time to command will increase to 5-7 or even longer unless EK buys 300 aircraft.

It sounds like buying cheap land next to an airport and then complaining about the noise.

Zomp don't try to sugar coat the situation. Fugazi is here 8 yrs and the new DECs will probably be paid more than him and have less experience than the FOs currently flying the 777. Just because it was over pprune 4 yrs ago that EK would stoop to that level does not make it right or even true but negates the fact about Fugazi and many many others who came to EK before the airline started going downhill and fast. When I interviewed EK said nothing about hiring DECs and told us it would be 3 yrs to command. I guess you and the mangers will "blame" the hard working FOs for not seeing this coming or that we should have known this was coming but the fact remains that it is beyond wrong and you know it. Just because someone verbalizes it does not make it right. BOHICA! Keep Discovering!

Rain,
how long are you here than?
We warned all the wannabes but you didn't listen.
For the last 3 years there are only negative posts on the net and everybody knew that EK is going down the drain very fast.

Don't tell me you belive what an EK recruiter told you, because then you should hand in your medical right now.

Time to look for another job, if youve got experience go look for a better deal it is worthless in EK as an F/O.....No future !:{

Sad fact is they are gonna take whoever they can get to fly the aircraft at the moment. Scheduling admit that they are big time short of crews and once the rostering system has crunched the numbers cover open flights using the reserve guys. Some days reserve cover is zip.

Added to that they then fill the rosters of the guys that have exceeded their block hours by manually inserting ground duties. That will explain why our rosters are getting screwed about so much. When the manual insertions are done they look for a nice block of days off and stick it in the middle to even it out in a nice eye pleasing fashion. The 'manual inserters' do not have any idea of our bid preferences and probably wouldn't care anyway.

Cerberus:sad:

I have heard a couple of times over the last week that we have anywhere between 1 and 3 jets parked due to lack of crews. Anyone heard the same?

All of which makes me rather glad I've resigned!

Me too ,and its gonna snowball especially on F/O side .
I think Etihad and QR are wising up to experienced people............

Hey Trashed.

Don't think Ey or Qr the go mate.

Reasons......

1. Qr will sack you if you don't wear your hat.

2. Ey CCQ 330/340 AED 74,000. CCQ 330/380.......wait for it...AED 294,000

3. Upgrade AED 220,000...

Hmmmm !!!!! Me zinc zey have you by mine shvuntz over there.
Don't know???? Pay out EK bond and enter into another sandpit?

Stay tuned bud. Things will happen soon.:D

Have a good break:ok:

Have I just read that right? You mean to tell me that you get bonded if they give you a Command? That cannot be true surely......is it?

Yup, that is. They'll bond you for everything there. And BTW same DEC problem there with the difference that they offered SWR FO's with the rating positions as Captain, overtaking every FO serving there already.

Hi guys, sorry to hear of your being s*** on and from a great height it seems. I was in the same position years ago with another company.

The only thing you can do is to leave as quickly as possible and take as many as possible with you. Vote with your feet, otherwise you will continue to be treated like rubbish. Unfortunaly pilots being pilots, will never stick together.

I know it is easier said than done in most cases as you probably have family there and loans to pay back etc., back home. However believe me when I say this, to keep your dignity intact, go. That is the only language these people will ever understand.

Things are beginning to move in the job market now, so make a command decision and get the hell out.

Well said by everybody on this board! Now if we can only work together to achieve our goals. Either no more DECs or for the qualified FOs to move on to better companies. If we achive both EK might be a modearately decent place to work but that is a long way off. Lets stick together as a group and that includes everybody.

Or one more DEC who takes LHR Rains command so that we all can feel save when we travel on EK

Zomp,

What the he11 do you know about me! Your views are most disturbing to this airline. Are you defending the DEC decision? If so that is a pretty good reason why this airline is going downhill. So you want more DECs to come so one FO can't get an upgrade? If that is the logic you don't belong at any airline. And by the way what 3rd world airliine did you come from? Lets stick together and win!

Zomp,

"So we can all feel save"????? What the heck does that mean?
Yes, i realize what you intended, but in your venomous and ridiculous attack on LHR, you should try to appear at least moderately intelligent.

I have read a few of your posts, and your POV is difficult for me to understand. You are either one of the minority azz-kissing pilots, a management doughboy or someone who simply can't comprehend the issues. Hopefully you are the latter, since at least that would offer you opportunity to become enlightened in the future.

I am astounded that you would suggest it unsafe for people to fly with LHR based on his viewpoints expressed on this forum. It is one of the most absurd things i have ever read here and you should reconsider posting such comments in the future.

Yes, I have suggested you are one of 3 types of individuals, none of which I find decent but I have no idea of your skills, or lack thereof, in relation to your profession. It's possible you are a good pilot with sound judgement and above average skills. Although if i am correct in my assessment of you, then based on my experience with individuals like yourself, that is highly unlikely. Then again, perhaps you made that post in a moment of insanity and we should give you the benefit of the doubt.

You have crossed the line and need a little beeyatch slapping. (that's intended in humour)

EK always hired DEC, 15 years ago the hired them, even the AB chiefpilot is a DEC, they hired DEC 2000 on the 777 (Rademann and another guy).
2001 EK announced again that they will hire DEC.
So it was no secret and EK made it quiet clear.

You will recognise Zompey in the crewroom--- underpants on his head, pencils up his nose ..... wibble...:p :p

But do you really think it is fair when there is F/os meeting the same criteria being overlooked.:E

NO!

I also believe that Zomp is trying to justify the DECs in the wrong way. Just because EK did that in the past is no reason to do that same desision today. EK is a grown up airline now with plenty of qualified pilots today in the right and left seats. A lot of captains at EK hired even 8 yrs ago could not get hired today based on their qualifications. That goes to show you that EK has matured, not a slam on the current captains. Get rid of the DEC program at EK and the pilot applications will grow with qualified FOs wanting to come to a world class airline.

Rain.

How many pilots is "a lot"? I'm sure you've used proven data to make this claim. Oh I forgot, it's a rumour forum....

It is impossible to draw a comaprison between experience of pilots from 16, 8 or 4 years ago and those hired today unless you have the facts. Even if you had the data, such a comparison would be irrelevant

Is the DEC policy fair?
No.

Would a change to the promotion criteria change pilots outlook? Probably.

Will the policy change?
Not as long as there is a more economic (short term) and expeditious method.

Zomp

Yes you are right, the DEC policy has been around as long as Emirates has. It just hasn't been used to this extent before.

Emirates will continue to hire DEC's as long as there are no qualified (EK definition) F/O's on the fleet.

Why? Because that's their policy.

REALITY CHECK!
 

LHR Rain - I don't disagree with your views, or those of others here, and I sincerely hope that you, and all the other qualified FO's, get your upgrades as quickly as possible.

HOWEVER, what's happened so far is nothing compared to what's about to happen in the coming 2 years.

FACT: DEC's are going to be employed onto the 777 Fleet as a joint measure of avoiding transition upgrades, while meeting Fleet expansion (in significant numbers!)

FACT: Our management has recently reviewed the policy on transition upgrades, and have decided that DEC's are the better choice for the company, for one reason: $$$$ (their conclusion, not mine!)

FACT: DEC's will be hired onto the 380. (This will be done as an additional carrot to those DEC candidates that aren't convinced by the "movie star" salary)

FACT: DEFO's will also go onto the 380, but I don't think any sane peson is surprised by that fact: its a necessity.

CONCLUSION: Things are not going to get better. Make your decisions based on your own personal and professional requirements. All airlines needing pilots are going to feel the pinch soon, if not already. Don't be so naive to believe that red carpets will get rolled out to anybody with a rating; they will control staff movement simply by increased bonds and penalties for leaving. And so far EK has not done that!

And always remember, green grass can grow atop very deep sh&^t, so don't be too quick to jump the fence!

Also, for what its worth, the experience we have in the right seat of EK is hugely appreciated and respected by the Captains. Weather the storm if you can, get your upgrades, and THEN re-assess.

CTOAN

In reply to all the kind words addressed to me I resond:

Global Nomad:

A don't know specifically what a lot of pilots are. I do know at least 4 captains that I have flown with including one in the CRM department that by their own admission said they could not get hired today with the qualifications that they had at the time of joining. That is not to say everyone hired 8 yrs ago was not qualified or could not get hired today. That does say there were and are some (a lot) of captains that meet the criteria I metioned above.
You know as well as I do that most if not all of the FOs today at EK are qualified to fly an international, wide-body aircraft. It is just the company that puts the limits on us so they can "justify" their decision to screw us.

CTOAN

I would like nothing better to get an upgrade and leave. Unfortunately that prospect is a long ways away as you so pointidliy made me aware of. I hope your analyalist is wrong but I fear that it is right on the money. Thanks for the appreciation of the right seat guys. God help us all!

Well there is a handful of pilots F/os exceeding the DEC requirement and denyed upgrade .
Its all about money, join the wrong type and your career is screwed Emirates is not 1 airline dont join the wrong 1.:sad:

Someone earlier mentioned there is alot of "manual insertion"

There certainly is , and they seem to be inserting the manual deeper, after they have changed it that is.
;)

The majority (imho) of pilots wanted ek in the hope of a fast command .( If they are honest with themselves that is). It seems to have gone pear shaped. It wont change. there is a endless supply of ICAO licenced (read third world cheaper) pilots filling the slots now. if its sh1t leave. Dont be surprised if your ek rating is not that exportable. Most airlines that operate such kit have strict seniority so youll be in the right seat again anyway,and your dubai validation of anything other than a jar atpl will mean your stuck in a viscious circle, and you may not even get hired. Many companies in europe are now hiring straight out of school again to avoid this constant pressure for command. If you want to be a dec outside of ek youll need command time on type for a dec in europe. catch 22

Of course those of you with previous command can return to say JMC etc but the f/os you left behind will probably be skippers and in some cases maybe even yours.

Add to that the humiliation of kowtowing to your hosts, no civil rights and a double shafting from your expat colleagues who feather their own nests by trying to please the local shiek. Boy I dont envy you. Do like the colour scheme tho.

Dicksy

Glad you like the colours. Along with the red and black is green........the colour of envy! There are a whole lot more guys trying to get in than there are trying to get out, believe me.

There may not be the civil rights here in the Gulf as the one's you enjoy in Europe but my quality of life and standard of living is better. I was the wrong colour, age bracket, religion and sexual persuasion to enjoy the so called civil rights that were on offer to me in Europe anyway!

Just heard on sky news that those young hooded hooligans will enjoy £12 month 'pocket money' if they behave themselves every day. Which means either;
A) YOU'RE about to be shafted on the tax front.
or
B) YOUR windows will need to be boarded up.

Boy, I don't envy you.;)

BYMONEK

When you state your are the wrong "sexual persuasion" can you be a bit more specific. Are you a queer or what? I get your drift on the rest.

er...yes. My Wife often thinks I can be a bit queer but in the strange / odd / eccentric way, not in the " ooh Jeremy, I couldn't possibly do it again.........my knees are killing me dear!" :ooh:

Hope that ' straightens' things out for you!

Bymonek.

Sorry u didnt realise you were a mid thirties straight,married , two kids, anglosaxon c of e englishman . I do sympathise. You are actively discriminated against these days, not least by the diverse bbc.
Please dont play the sob story. Everyone (except the lucky cadets etc) has their own stories of financial hardship, favouritism ,jobs for the(raf) boys etc syndrome that is prevelant the uk at least.

As for the Hoodies, i take offence. Both my sons are card carrying hooligans , they were the wrong age , colour, sexual persuasion to be anything else.We all have to make a living.

Along with the green for envy is the fact that i make enough in extraordinary payments alone (after tax) than most of your f/os make in a month. This enables me to come and enjoy your agreeable lifesyle regularly without offering my botty to a local sheik or his expat henchman. See you at the sailing club some time.:ok:

We really need to hear that when our careers are ****** because we were placed on the wrong type .
You are way out of line dicksynormous you have no idea of how bad it is in the right seat so stay out of it.
I think the solution is for all ex captain f/os to leave get some more command time and come back as DECs on 777, thats how they want to play it.....
:mad:

Dicksynormous

How appropriate. You are, without doubt, the biggest Dick here!

:E

Harry

Thank you i do try. I usually get that response when your argument of tax free, big equipment fun is blown out of the water. Not rubbing it in, i dont need to, i'm not stuck on the right seat in the pit eating humble camel pie baked by an expat nest featherering [email protected]ing six to eight inches of halal meat inserted.(manually i'm told)
nearly took the bait tho as an f/o
Just pointing out the facts harry ol bean. Also an f/o 330 etc rating in dubai is good for just that. An f/o job elsewhere as an expat where woolly icao validations abound. You need the command time so its catch 22. Name one european 330/340/777.operator that would take an ek driver and put them on the left seat of a widebody ahead of the rest of their qualified time served people.
Its a good rating you have ,but good for the xpat world.

Harry the cod is a great name as you took the emirates bait.

Scooter, i do know and actually agree with you. Its an option i and many others now have open to us should we decide to go that route .
Must go now and book another staff ticket to dubai as i have a week off and 3grand of tax paid day off payments to blow.
:ok:

Ps never did say i didnt like dubai:E

Well, Dicksy, if he wasn't going to say it then someone was. You're just soooo easy to wind up. The only thing that confuses me about you is why you're on this forum in the first place as you have such an obvious aversion to working life in the Gulf.

Go on, have the last word then get lost.Your posts are repetitive, boring and full of tosh! You really are an annoying little git at the best of times.

Being a smart arse though, I guess you knew that already!

Now, back to the topic.................

Aaarh, do we have to? :{

Regarding "little dick", the name Richard Cranium kinda springs to mind...... Like his knobby little chum Millerscourt (where are you old man?) I also wonder why they spend most of their surfing time hanging around the "Middle East" forum:confused: :confused:

Dicky baby, I don't do Halal. Now, why don't you do like "Bricktop" says, and ***k off.......

Ah the "why you on the forum" chestnut. Whats next, the" did you fail selection" alternative.
If you dont want outsiders to read your crap keep it on your company forum. I have been an expat for 17 years and am therefore interested in expat forums,and no i didnt to the other one. Pissed it actually but had a flash of common sense.

Impressed with your solidarity against me though. Shame you dont have the balls to apply it to ek.

Your reactions are predictable and as unchangable as your screwed up status as chippy f/os in the gulf.

I bet its not the last word though.

You are fast becoming as intolerant of others views as your management and hosts.

The whinging from ek is endless. As is the same old counter arguments therefore my repetitive posts are only in keeping with tradition on the topic.

Oh and by the way if alluding to a nickname as being inDICKative of my endowment or personna is as good an insult as you can muster then i'll gladly f£

Jellied date juice is good for soothing the back pasage ..allegedly

Back to the thread
Quote:-

" DECs will only be introduced,if there are insufficient numbers of suitably qualified and experienced existing FOs within EK to meet existing expansion and it is intended as a temporary measure to see us through this current period of expansion"

Mr C Knowles,Feb 2003.

Probably cost neutral also,his lips moved too.

Off to the pub QB

:cool:

Latest DEC's are 310 only, confirmed. Met one of 'em in last few days

SyB :zzz: