Emirates Pilot Meeting
 

Any impressions of the pilot's meeting?

A complete and utter waste of time.

You are not valued, nothing was sorted out, all still under review. Time to brush off that CV.

The two main chairs of the meeting handled it with total arrogance and contempt for our colleagues trying to make valid points.

Only thing learned was 130 acft by 2012 and 2200 pilots + more DEC's. Apparently pilots are queing up to come to EK! No one I know.

The SVPE&FO can see no reason at all why there is any bad feeling or why moral is not high.

Happy Days

CRS

So nothing new revealed????
Any mention of pay, upgrade policy, housing allowance? Rumour had it that Adel told a Capt recently that the pilots would be very pleased with what they had come up with.
What was the turnout like?

INSULT
 

A very good turnout!!! Expectations were there, mine personally were high! Any goodwill that could've come out of this meeting was blown away by arrogance and a half baked attempt at making us feel guilty about our current package!! How dare we ask for any improvements on pay and conditions!!!!

I will not ever bother with another of these meetings in the future! Resignation is soon to follow.

Enough is enough!!

Check 'Six':*

Gentlemen, our esteemed EVPE&FO asked us to keep this news off Prune as it is a private issue and not for public consumption.

Well tough :mad: . I think it important that those 3000 pilots wanting to join know exactly what they're letting themselves in for if they join.

About 250 - 300 guys in the auditorium with great expectation but here's quick breakdown of what was said:

Upgrade: we see no need to change the current policy.

Duty Travel: F/Os can go business IF travelling with Capt, but not on own.

Accommodation Allowance: We see no need to change the current policy.

Pay: Pilots are not a special section of the company, and will recieve the same pay increase as ALL sections of the company. (Review still in progress, results in May).

Credit: The review is ongoing and results will be announced in May.

Most of what was said was a repeat of the December meeting (it will be reviewed) and the result: a lot of :mad: off pilots.

For those of you out there who think that Emirates is going to look after you and give you a good career, please think again. The management view is that you joined on your contract but it is so loose that they can change the terms of that contract and we have no comeback or representation to help air our views.

You may believe that the grass is greener over here, but with some flight deck dusting off their CVs you should get an idea of you are in for should you join.

What's the betting that the April meeting will be much of the same?

I'm now going out for a dinner: pork and beer seems a good bet!!

The meeting on the 21st Dec was well attended and gave Emirates pilots the opportunity to provide Emirates Flt Ops management with some insight into areas of concern regarding pay, conditions, promotion etc. All insights were gratefully accepted and put under review.

The meeting on the 28th Feb was well attended and gave Emirates Flt Ops management the opportunity to provide Emirates pilots with some insight into areas of concern regarding pay, conditions, promotion etc. The review has concluded that

1. Pay shall remain as is. If pilots want to talk about pay issues in future the management will not attend the meetings. Everyone else has to do overtime and not get paid for it so pilots are already better off than other company employees. Pilots salarys are comparible to other salaries in the area. Name one other airline that pays pilots annual leave. We do not have an official inflation index in the UAE so we cannot increase pay accordingly.


2. Accom allowance shall remain as is. Pilots receive conditions of employment similar to other company employees. We do not discriminate. Only Simulator instructors will receive a pay increase to improve their conditions. Paxing in business class for an F/O on duty travel is still under review, paxing in uniform is mandatory.

3. F/O promotion criteria shall remain as is. Flight time in an Emirates aircraft does not count towards promotional experiance for accelerated command. Because the hours for DEC change regularly a pilot is better off to wait until he can apply for a DEC. Pilots are not assessed on individual merit for promotion out side the inflexible hours requirements. The requirement for DECs will continue and they will be hired as long as they meet the MINIMUM criteria. Once you join as an F/O there are NO PROMOTION guarantees so join only as a DEC. Promises made during the interview are null in void, the only guarantee is the piece of paper you sign as a contract. That contract can change for the next bunch of pilots. Years of Long haul experiance count for nothing. Two seasons in a dodgey Charter Job flying A320 will get you a LHS in an A330/A340-300-500-600. The reality is that on projected figures EK can and will continue to hire Captains from the DEC pool, they need 100 captains total per year and have already hired 45 DECs this year, as such in house F/Os will remain as F/Os for alot longer than three years. Let me say again..... Promises made during the interview are null in void, the only guarantee is the piece of paper you sign as a contract.

We should all be grateful we have a job with Emirates and there are a few thousand applications to prove it.

For those of you who intend to apply to Emirates be advised that there is no one in Emirates management who will address your pilot concerns and no body of people that can stand up for you. Conditions continue to be eroded for succesive new joiners. Training Captains and project pilots are resigning or being forced out. Emirates needs DECs, to ensure that the quantity is achieved irrespective of the quality, and will not promote highly qualified in house pilots.

For those like me who do not read Latin...... Buyer Beware

Well, as a group of 900 odd professional and talented drivers, we are as pissweak as the Jingallie workforce. Start and stand up for ourselves as a large group and have the balls as united brothers and state that no bastard moves anywhere Monday morning unless a major review is undertaken. A few days with major international aircraft stranded at the hub of the world may begin to make a bowel movement with the management. Then again Lizard, Pilot's are known to be a weak and gutless mob when it comes to joining together and enforce change.

Interesting Thread......I think a few of those 3000 applications will be reconsidering the accelerated FO program based on the responses from the current EK pilots. Personnally I'm going to wait another 12-14 months until I have the DEC qualifications. Alot of the applicants from AC will be doing the same thing. Thanks for info Guys and hope to see in a years time!

EXTREMELY DISAPOINTED AND UPSET AT HOW THE PILOTS WERE ADDRESSED BY MANAGEMENT. MY DAYS AT EK AT NUMBERED AND THAT NUMBER JUST GOT REDUCED EVEN MORE. THEY JUST DON'T GET THE MESSAGE DO THEY?? :confused:

GOOD LUCK FOR THOSE LOOKING ELSEWHERE AND THINGS CAN ONLY GET BETTER. THIS IS THE LOWEST I HAVE FELT WORKWISE SINCE ARRIVING IN THE 90'S. :sad:

would be worth to start a poll about pilots who joined within the last 24 month if they would do it again.
just to enlighten some EK wannabes.

ps: don't give up your command to join EK as a F/O you might never get it back

Essentially, Emirates management have confirmed our status as expatriate workers in their company. We are discovering what it feels like to be utterly powerless in relation to our own working conditions. This is not only about pay but flight time and duty limitations, rostering practices and scheduling. All these factors affect fatigue and safety but are also at the heart of our working conditions.
Our bosses regard posting on PPRUNE as unprofessional but they deny their workforce any other avenue for discussing their worth and bringing up legitimate arguments for better conditions. They will say this is untrue because we can raise our problems any time. But they demonstrate that they don't want to hear them. However, this is exactly the case for all other expatriate workers in Dubai and the Middle East.
Management is about managing, not denying problems exist and papering over them. Amongst the pilots are many guys trying to help and do the right thing by the company but are denied the opportunity because of a lack of legitimate dialogue.
Disenfranchising your workforce must be regarded as cutting off your nose to spite your face. We may not be the face of the airline but we have significant authority over its safe operation day to day.
The one size fits all solution to airline business utilised by the company from its foundation doesn't work any more and more robust strategies for dealing with all conditions needs to be found.
First world image, third world standard.

SecurID no offence taken. I sure could do with a bit of help every now and then, and always look for ways to improve.

As the days wear on it will become self evident, again, to the EK pilots that we have no choice but to stay until conditions improve elsewhere. Sentiments reflected in a previous post. The real choice is for those who intend to come to Emirates. Our income in 'homeland' pounds/dollars continues to slide, the cost of living continues to increase and we have no way of negotiating for better conditions... because neither has anyone else, and what makes pilots so special?

Emirates has approx 1000 pilots and requires approx 2100 by the beginning of the next decade. It does not take much math to figure out that given the policy of hiring DECs those with a seniority number somewhere from 1000 and above will not gain promotion within three years. Join now as an F/O and expect command sometime after 2012. Join as a DEC, even if you have to wait in your current airline for a bit longer is a better proposition. If someone can be positive and throw a different light on the math please do so, number of retirees etc. Remember its not what they say or promise at the interview, its what you sign.... and I stand corrected on that point.

If you are in a bad way at home please do come to Emirates and feel welcome. If life is not so bad then just think about .... carefully.

Hey guys who do you think the EVPE&FO means when he say "some of you lazy pilots." I refused to go in and work for NO PAY on my days off. Am I a "lazy pilot?"

Crazy

Absolute utter waste of time, thats what you get when you cross British Airline "management" with local managers with :mad: all man management skills.

Only been here a short time, not enjoying it at all. EK is going to be in deep :mad: if it doesn't do something soon regarding recruitment, pay and upgrades soon.

Never been in a co. where I have flown with so many Training Capts who openly admit they are going to resign.

Review, review, review, review, review, review, review, review, review, review, review, review, review, review, review, review, review, review, review, review, review.

What a load of :mad: .

Our esteemed EVP said not to post on pprune as it would give the company a bad name..... sorry chief it's you lot that are giving the company a bad name.

End of justified rant...........

What could I possibly say that hasn't already been said, and more elakwently than me!? Probably nothing, but here goes anyway.......

As much as I would like to launch into a soap box address about the incompetence and negligence of our circus called management, I will not.

But I would like to address EK wannabe's.....DEC's OR F/O's...

Anybody looking at coming here should do so ONLY if the existing conditions at their present location are so bad that they MUST move on, AND the PRESENT conditions here at EK are satisfactory for you. You would have "unreasonable expectations" (management quote) if you thought your contract will be changed for the better during your EK tenure. Not trying to be the prof of doom, just a realist.

PLEASE....... if you do come here then do so with your eyes wide open! The aircraft are great, as are the people you will work with, (except maybe this particular "bolshy ba#$%@^d"), but your conditions ARE going to decline in line with the US dollar. If you think the US dollar is about to regain previous strength, then I would be very wrong...... and most happy to be so! But you are most certainly attached to the ups and downs of that mighty greenback.

And remember.... eyes wide open! The prerogative of having your eyes wide shut is reserved for our enlightened leadership!

Safe Flying to all! :ok:

MY TWO CENTS WORTH
 

ATTENTION EMIRATES WANNA-BE'S

There's an old saying that goes: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull****!" AKA: Empty promises when you arrive for the interview.

If you're thinking of jumping ship and heading for this playground (read Zoo) then PLEASE heed to the advice posted above. The truth is that we as a professional group of pilots (deemed Managers in our worthless 'contract') are treated with extreme contempt by senior Emirates management and are seen to be nothing more than any other employee (cleaners etc); one of the dispensable workforce.

We have NO RIGHT to representation, and we are apparently wasting senior managment time (on our days off) by attending meetings (set up by THEM) which address serious pilot morale, hence flight safety issues.

Enlightening YOU, the "future" 1200 Emirates joiners is the only voice we have!
BE WARNED. Things are not what they used to be! :*

Just one question guys.

How are the DECs being received? Are they being blackballed, given the cold shoulder, or 'sent to coventry' by the ensconced pilots? I can imagine this cannot be a happy group if all this is true, and I wonder if the F/Os in particular are taking this out on the new joiners (who seem to be effectively robbing them of their promotions).

I'm not interested to join EK at the moment myself...not qualified anyhow, but I did consider it as a long term rest/retirement home in a half dozen years or so.

"Lazy Pilots"!?
Don't like the sound of that!

Perhaps not!

Got all that guys,
Is it really that unhappy a ship ? I'm on the fence at the mo, about to give my notice back home and come and join you guys as an FO. (current Jet Capt). My question is - is the place any good as a lifestyle, I've got two kids for whom i'd like the best education, outdoor lifestyle and quality of life.

Feedback definately welcomed ( and i don't have much time left to decide )

:confused:

emirates pilot's meeting
 

Absolute waste of time. Shameful. No substance, not even any style. No wonder this "family" (as stated in the corporate video), is becoming dysfunctional. Time for a re-edit on that one gentlemen. You are going to have to do some quick revision on expansion plans....

By the way, to EK wannabees, (all you thousands) esp. FOs - did you know that EK provides airfare, (pos. space) for DEC candidates to come to their 5 day interview but the FO candidates don't get anything for travel...

Aren't they clever?

Giovane

If you want to place your children in either the American School of Dubai (ASD) or Dubai American Academy (DAA), there is a lengthy waiting list for the former, and you will have to pay out of pocket, at least 9200 AED per year extra for the seat fee. There is no wait list, I believe, at DAA but it is rapidly growing and I am not sure about class size. If you are considering, and have been successful in the interview process then you have the addresses and telly numbers given to you during assessment, so you can call to verify admissions status before making the final decision.

Guys, your openness and honesty should be applauded.
We have got the message 5 by 5. Avoid at all costs unless absolutely desperate.
I wish you all the very best. Stand up for yourselves and don't let the bas##rds get you down.
The airline relies on all of your professionalism and good will. Do not let them walk all over you.

Good luck.

Hmmm, seems more than a few are rather upset.

Face facts, the expat world has changed a lot over the years, and at EK, apparently not for the better.

TOLD you so...some time ago.

Some never learn.

Tough beans...;)

To all the EK pilots thanks for sharing your thoughts........ After reading this forum my decision to join EK has been somewhat shattered. There seems to be a lot of uneasiness, and when you are making a major life time decision, it is issues like this that can not be taken lightly. Not only myself but others I know who also have course dates are know questioning whether or not it is the right move and whether or not it is worth giving up present job.

Really disappointed to hear the way issues are being addressed and handled by management. I was always under the understanding that Emirates treated their employees really well. If this is any indication of where things are headed, what is it going to be like in 5 years, never mind 15 or 20????????
:confused:

Giovane,

Time to hop onto the fence; I feel very uncomfortable at the slagging match that has begun and I am not sure it is particularly helpful. All it will do is polarise opinions.

I was at the meeting and was surprised that so little new was forthcoming and at some of the arguements made and attitudes expressed, by both sides of the house but don't believe this is necessarily the best forum to air any grievances. However, if you want to come to EK and base your decisions solely on what has been said over the last couple of days, I think you would be paying yourself a dis-service.

Were I applying now I would make a list of the reasons that I wanted to come to Dubai and then another of the things that I thought might be show stoppers. I'd see what I could live with and what I couldn't and then make a reasoned decision.

There have been a lot of frustrations expressed over the last few days. Have the underlying fundamentals of the company or the quality of life issues really changed enough to make you wary of coming? I don't know the answer, only you do based upon your personal situation.

Obviously, had the news with regards to pay and allowances been more positive, the picture would have been different. There is more to life than money, the judgement is whether you believe EK will make you feel valued and whether your family will enjoy their time here. Its perhaps better, if you know someone, to talk to someone within the company away from the glare of recent events to see if you can get a better feel for the overall picture. I am certain you do not get a fair reflection of the views of all EK pilots on this forum, some of the views aren't even from guys in the company.

Idunno,

I have no idea how the DECs have been received, not many have filtered through yet. Personally, I'd be horrified if anyone would be so unprofessional as to let their own disappointment in a company policy effect the way in which they dealt with the individuals on the flightdeck.

There seems to be a lot of mis-trust and lack of faith from some individuals on both sides of the arguement. I hope that over the coming months, in the cold light of day, that facts rather than emotions will come to the fore.

It would be easy for disenfranchised pilots to cook up all sorts of schemes but it would be just as easy for managers to let emotion rule their heads and begin a vendetta. Either of those options is untenable from my point of view and would surely spell disaster. I hope that the issues can be resolved maturely, so that confidence and trust can be rebuilt on both sides.

Worried but optimistic as always,

Ghost:confused:

The thing that saddens me, Is the so called SGM’s that are too weak to speak up.
Most of these guys are formally, or still, line pilots and should fully empathize with our feelings and comments. The truth is, that with the odd exception in fact they do.

Why then are they silent ? Because they know they’ll go the same way of former SGM’s in the blink of an eye. Drawers cleaned out and a meeting at the airport by immigration officials with a ticket home.

What are you doing wasting your time in the office ! You’re giving yourself a heart attack, and neglecting your family and kids.
You’re powerless to make change ! Your strings are pulled from well above and if you step out of line, they’ll be cut.
Your taking it up the rear end, why ?
If you’re lucky, you may end up back on the line as a Lazy Pilot.

Nobody will remember your efforts, or care ! In the western world you may have some power in airline management. Here, you’re a step up from the rest of us minions, a baggage handler who wears a tie.

Listen, Speak up, shout, and make a change, or Get A Life !

Your close mates will come to the American Hospital with a bunch of grapes and a magazine. The rest of us will think, what a nice bloke, Shame.

The money issue is a debate that will always exist.
For such a large expansion plan DEC’s are an agreed necessity.
To my mind, the two problems that will change moral almost immediately and enormously .

Stop ignoring a huge Existing command potential in the right seat !
The training dept is coming apart at the seams !

Oh Gulfa, pure poetry my son, pure poetry. !!!!

And! don't forget that when you do eventually get your command you will earn significantly less money than a brand new Direct entry Captain, even if he has less experience than you!

If you become a training Capt. he will still be earning more money than you when you are training him, and will continue to do so for the rest of your career!

Wake up Emirates! We will not survive long enough to reach the forcasted expansion targets if you continue to employ stupid, inexperienced, asskissing, brown-nosing, idiots for upper management positions.

I doubt that I will ever carrry minimum fuel again, or work on a rostered day off, proffesionalism, peace of mind and safety now take on a whole new meaning. It saddens me greatly to admit it but every man has his limits and that includes us.

Well done to the EK management! THANK YOU for the demonstration of goodwill, comradery and appreciation for all the many years of hard work and sacrifices made on an almost daily basis by your hard working and loyal captive slaves.

I am not being paid enough to put up with this crap! but like the rest, I will stay until something better comes along.
Shame.....!

Just got an email from a friend that succesfully passed the interview early JAN 04....but...

He wisely decided not to come to EK and will keep on flying as a CPT with his present European A320 Charter company.

He changed his mind due to the present very low crew-morale, the future upgrade prospects and last but not least the way EK managment is treating it's pilots...

I can tell you, he was highly motivated in the beginning, even if he had to give up 30% of his present salary... guess too much is "too much"!

Maybe the holdpool will be drying up before the next rainseason...


Lets wait and see... the A340-300's might be spotters paradise, if parked against the fence on the Northside, as from May.


Of for a drink now, ( if I can afford it...)

Cheers:* : to a man that today made a wise decision!

Hi Guys,

Hope you don't mind me posting to your forum, I am a pilot's wife and we are just about to pack up our lives here in Canada and move to Dubai. My husband is away on a layover right now (thank goodness he has not quit his job yet) and because this move clearly has a major effect on my life as well, I am trying to find some clarification. After reading all the posts from this latest meeting, our once very confident decision to sign on with Emirates is in serious question.

I just don't get it?????? I was a huge supporter on moving the whole family over to Dubai, for many reasons. The climate, the lifestyle and especially the company. We were under the impression that Emirates really cared about its employees. From what I could see from the outside looking in Emirates was doing everything possible (of course within reason) to make sure that the pilots and their wives were happy. Which obviously makes sense, there is a lot of cost in relocating, training etc. My husband was told that he would see a Captains seat within 18months- 3 years, for him this was a MAJOR factor in making his decision. It now appears that this is just some sort of carrot or Capt. Seat on a string that they are dangling in front of these guys faces...... to get them over there. Talk about making people unhappy, it very obvious from what I have been reading there is a lot tension and animosity. We do not have to move half way around the world for that type of enviroment, we have pleanty of it right here at home. This was another major factor in our move, looking forward to working for a company who respected its employees. We have been researching this whole deal for over a year, have we had ours heads in the sand the whole time?

Why is Emirates telling these guys things that are just not true?
Bottom line is.... They are messing with people's lives, expecting these guys to make major decisions based on out right lies.

I think the thing that is most upsetting to me is that in my mind Emirates was a First Class Airline all the way and we were really excited about being a part of it. Not so sure now. At the rate the management at Emirates is going they are going to drive this airline right into the ground.

Truly a sad state of affairs.........

OOtheB,

Well I'm sorry to say that EK generally (and I hate to generalise, but this is the case), don't give a Monkey's #oss about its employees; and I'm TRULY sorry to say this. On a 'one to one' basis, this is not 'generally' true. We all look after each other and enjoy our working environment. However, when you look higher up for support, you WILL get that support 'only if' it doesn't affect the job prospects of the Manager above you'. Any threat to the 'said job position' and you will be royally shafted.

Now, this shouldn't put you and your Hubby off in coming to DXB. You just need to be aware that 'nobody cares' on a managerial level. We all do on a 'humanistic' (one 2 one) level, but apply that to decisions that will affect you and your family long term, then you may have a problem. If anyone disagrees, then I'll mention subjects such as: accommodation, upgrades, medical (e.g. changed policy re pregnancy), professional support (FCI 001/04: 'the pilot is solely responsible for everything and the management take no responsibility for: morale, communication or issues that may affect our jobs).

Mmmmm - See, there I go again: and I hate doing it, but we are at crossroads in our development where we need to decide where we are going on a personal and ‘personnel’ level; and that takes MORAL COURAGE. This means making choices that aren't based on selfish motivations (protecting our annual budget so we get a nice bonus) or 'being scared' that if we support our staff we'll get 'shafted' in a few months. It really amazes me that people still live in fear of making decisions because ‘their boss may’ not promote them or keep them in their comfy pipe and slippers lifestyle. Won’t these people look at themselves in 10 or 20 years time and ask some REALLY important questions?

Anyhow OOtB I’ve said enough. Make a decision that is based on facts and what is good for your family, not the thrill of another lifestyle. It may fade if it doesn't meet your expectations. I love DXB, but only on MY terms....

What did I say in 2000?
 

Fellow aviators,

I remember me posting a remark about Emirates and The United Arab H@merroids in 2000....
I was truly telling you all what I have seen living in Dubai. Seeing how non locals, born and raised there where forced to leave because their father went broke and could not support himself nor his family. And this due to a local company going bust and not honouring the gentlemans pension rights after 30 years of service!!!
How the locals praise themselves of inventing the wheel better than anyone else....and how all looser wannabe pilots who would not have made it to any major carrier in the civilized world ended up in EK management. It was as a warning to all of you going there, but all the response I got back was stupid remarks of me not qualifying for the job, or me being an :mad: airhead etc. etc. -Yes I did not get the job...after telling the selection team that their health-insurance was poor....their arrogance was inappropriate (working with professionals does require some basic principles of respect and manners). The walking over corps mentality was so obvious that eaven a blind would get his 20/20 vision back :8
Well gentlemen, there is no golden heaven.....reality does catch up with fake promises and hype. I just hope for all of you that left a decent company and country to fly for those:yuk: will find themselves in a better position sooner rather than later.
Some of you will write all kinds of things about my posting I am sure, but previous postings on this thread speaks for itself.....only it took you all 4 years to figure it out......some must learn the hard way it seems.....inventing the wheel again was it?

Good luck to you all.....

What I couldn't figure out that if they desperately need pilots why my age was that important. Somehow I don't think they got it right and they told me I was too old. Now that is a first.

Is it just me, or does this all sound like Cathay a couple of years ago?

Sorry to disillusion you all, but it hasn't changed that much here. When I came to EK well over a decade ago I was told by a wise old training captain that when you join you are issued with two buckets - one marked sh!t and one marked money. When one was full, you left! Looks like we know which one is spilling over!

Sandpit, at current resignation rates soon there'll be no more "wise old training captains" left!

OO the Blue,

Seriously reconsider coming here and I mean seriously. The contract your old man signed is not worth the paper it is written on, conditions change monthly for the worse.
From what I hear in the woods, aviation is beginning to turn around for the better in Canada (only what i hear) and a number of Canadian jockies here are kicking themselves for leaving.
Be aware, you and your family are in the eyes of the locals "a nothing" and you have no protection whatsoever in regards to the "Law of the land". One just has to have a car accident here at no fault of your own and life as you knew it turns into a bloody nightmare.
Having utmost respect, I would strongly suggest that when your husband walks through the door next, you yell out " There is no f###**g way I am going over to that sh##hole. !!!!!!

Best of luck for your decision and if you end up here, I would say bloody good luck, actually.

Lizard

OOT Blue,

As you can see there are lots of people telling you not to come. I'm not disagreeing with them, but I would add a couple of possible considerations.

If hubby was told "possible command after 18 months" then he must qualify for the "accelerated list", which means he must already have 2000Hrs command time on B737/A320 or bigger. (Otherwise he MUST do 3 years as an F/O, and may get stuck there for many more years as previously posted numbers indicate)

If this is the case then he only needs to wait to 3000 command to qualify as a DEC. You guys would then arrive in Dubai about 18 - 24 months later, and be earning about 10,000 Dhs more per month than you would be if you joined now. Follow that earning difference down a 10 -15 year career time line, and I think the technical term would "no brainer"? The added advantage would be you get the next 18 months or so to see what happens in EK, and do so without burning any Canadian bridges.

A bitch of a decision for you as a family, but good luck with it, and maybe we'll all get to enjoy your company here in a couple of years.


All the best....
:ouch:

To make a plan like that assumes the goalposts won't shift again! If pilot's start waiting until they satisfy the DEC requirements then the supply of F/Os will all but dry up. Then what will become of the DEC 'policy'?

Sounds like EK is turning into a bigger version of GF. Heaven help you if that happens. Then you really will have something to complain about.

Good luck.

666

For o.o.t.b,

You have my sympathies. This is a very tough decision. We moved from Canada just over a year ago. The upgrade was a huge factor. 4 months after I got here, they up and changed the rules. I now don't even qualify until a minimum 3 years. The "experience" issue for DECs is horse-bleep. There are 2-3 year F/O's here, over 40 years old, with tons of experience - Captain - wide body - excellent ride reports - you name it. They aren't upgraded for 1 simple reason...economics. It's cheaper to bring in DECs. When questioned as to the obligation by the company to keep its promises, the CP said, “When you take an ex-pat job, you have to expect this kind of treatment. YOU should have factored that in to your decision to come here.” (That’s a direct quote.) I suggest you heed his advice.

We do like the lifestyle in DXB, and the guys are excellent to work with, so I don't mind being an F/O. However, with a family, we don't save a dime. If you have kids, you need the Captain's pay here to have a savings plan. The SrVP Flt Ops was recently bragging to a new class how well the DEC program was working. He said it would go on indefinitely. Therefore, I think you must prepare for at least 5-7 years before the left seat. That’s IF the planned expansion continues.

Bottom line: if a quick upgrade is a clincher, don’t come.

PS. Good for you to care enough to get on here and ask questions!

out.of.the.blue

In the words of George Bernard Shaw – Advice to those contemplating …(fill in as appropriate but the original was matrimony)..Don’t!

If your husband and you are busting to join EK for some crazy reason, for god’s sake wait ‘till he has the required hours (by EK reckoning) and then get him to join as a DEC. Surely you can both see the current writing as put on the wall by a conniving bunch of liars masquerading as EK "management"?

Emirates' Flt Ops management is extremely disrespectful towards the pilots. BOTTOM LINE MANAGEMENT STRATEGY IS: IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT YOU CAN LEAVE.(but you can't have summer leave) I have difficulties to respect a local boss that makes TCK appear like one of the good guys. His inability to operate MS Powerpoint in this day and age just makes me roll the eyes.
One major problem for the pilots is that senior management thinks that we are all happy with pay and conditions.Reason being that our poor excuses for meetings are not minuted. EK is rapidly joining the Gulf Air spiral dive. Emirates is not a good job anymore. Do not waste your time applying.

Have fun,
Porkandbrew :8