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That was too fast
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F/O Basic
Less then 1000 hrs = 15,000 Dhm 1000 to 2000 hrs = 16,000 Dhm More then 2000 hrs = 19,000 Dhm Housing = 10,200 Dhm (122,400 per year) a dedicated housing allowance so pilots who would like to benefit from the advanced pay can utilize the full amount in one lump sum. Transport = 1,000 Dhm Total fixed pay = 26,200 - 30,200 Dhm Seniority increase = 350 Dhm on completion of one year and 500 Dhm for every successive year to a maximum of 5000 Dhm. Education Allowance = Total allowance up to a max of.75,000 Dhm. (50,000 Dhm for Outside UAE) for an academic year for all children within the age group of 4 to 18 years. There is no per child limit. Flying Allowance Day flights will be paid @1 time the credit block hours allowance &Night flights will be paid @1.5 times the credit block hours allowance. Credit Block Hours = Scheduled Two Sector Flight Time rounded to next highest hour. A Sharjah-Sana-Sharjah two sector trip has a scheduled block time of 2:35 Sharjah-Sana and 2:30 Sana-Sharjah for a trip total of 5:05. The credit block hours is 6 hours of pay. Night Pay is the flying that commences between 1830- 0630 local no matter what time the trip ends. In the Sana, Yemen case above, the credit block hours is 1.5 the day credit block hours or 9 hours of pay in this Sana example if it departs between the hours designated as night. Approximately 39% of Air Arabia flying hours are night flying. Flying Allowance Rate 1- 25 hrs = 20/hr; 26 -50 hrs = 40/hr; 51- 75 hrs = 80/hr; 76+ = 160/hr Duty pay @ 10 Dhm/ actual flying duty hour Day off Flying @ 240Dhm (?) plus flying allowance rate Annual Leave = 45 days LOL, Death Insurance, Medical Insurance remains the same. Sick and Personal Leave remain the same. Annual Bonus = Unknown, but 2006 was 3 months. Stock = Unknown, but last restricted award was 150,000 shares to F/Os with progressive vesting dates. Synopses: The difference between flight time and credit time is apx 7.2% based upon Air Arabia’s schedule. The differential between day and night pay is fair. The incentive for reduced flight times for the crew is large with the according benefit. The difference in potential pay is great but it depends upon the pilot’s personal desires. The pilot has the ability to choose between large salary and quality of life. Should a pilot choose to maximize his/her pay the potential is great. A pilot can choose to fly 100 hours of night flights. 100 hours of actual flying is about 107.2 credit hours of flying. Night flying is a 50% premium or 161 hours for pay. You do the same math as for a Captain. Caveat: there are several areas that must be addressed. The scenarios above are maximums to a degree. They do not take into account under flying which would allow the pilot to accumulate more credit block hours per actual hour flown. It also assumes the night legalities are adhered too but all in all it is a good example. It is possible to make more per month but the minimum is fairly accurate for a 100 hour flying month. Air Arabia pilots fly the legal maximum yearly = 900 block hours. The credited hours can be considerably higher. Under flying is that amount of flying that is actually done below the scheduled flying. In other words in the Sana case above a pilot flying the 5:05 trip is paid 6 hours. Assuming it would be possible (legalities etc) to fly this trip all month a pilot would be able to fly this 19.7 times in a month (20 times) and get paid for 120 hours. Should the pilot fly the flight in 4:30 per trip his pay is still 6 hours; however, he would be able to fly this 22.2 times a month. This would pay him 133.3 hours a month or a 13 hour premium for under fly. If this flying were all night flying (once again assuming legalities) the credit time would be 200 hours for pay. A pretty heavy pay check at 55,000+ Dhm! Assumption is for F/O with over 2000 hours time in type. AED (Dhm) = 3.66/$1US Sorry, but the original question was for a Captain. Pharaoh, actually the answer is almost 3 days old. Pretty slow for PPrune:-) 243.0 Burners and Out! |
I am sorry to all of you who have PMed me but I simply can not answer all your questions individually. I will answer the bulk of them on the forum so others will not have to repeat the question.
Upgrade: this seems to be the most repeated question. Yes Air Arabia has a good upgrade program. The time to the beginning of the process is from 14-20 months now but I am sure it will decrease soon (see aircraft acquisition below.) The length of time depends on the pilot (assuming you have the minimum qualifications for upgrade – they do not bend and you will be passed if you don’t have them.) System knowledge is stressed but most guys have trouble “being a Captain.” All those other things only Captains think about every flight. You know, Cabin Crew, ground handling, connecting flights, take time to tanker or not etc. Pilots: currently there are about 150 pilots but there should be about 500+ by 2012. Of the approximate 75 Captains 30+ were hired as F/Os (1 new Captain was released just today and several more are in the pipeline.) Aircraft & Acquisitions: the company currently has 10 A-320s 77K (170,000 lbs.) MGTOW. The plan is for a fleet of at least 34 aircraft. The exact type has not been released but it will be either 737s or 320s. Watch the news at the Dubai Air Show for an announcement – my guess. Stock: Many have asked me about my mention of the stock and restricted grants. Air Arabia did what most companies do for senior executives and gave restricted grants to only the pilots (and senior management.) This is a windfall for the pilots but as with any such incentive it has a maturity date. The grant was free. Captains received 250,000 shares and F/Os received 150,000 shares. The current stock value is 1.52 which makes this a 380,000 Dhm “present” to captains and 228,000 Dhm “gift” to F/Os. 60% matures in 3 years with 100% in 5 years but it cost nothing. Whatever the stock price is at that time – well that is what you get if you sell – you can keep it too. Dividends are a guaranteed 25% minimum of gross profits. During the IPO there were other stock incentives for the senior pilots as well as bonus shares for workers, but that is past and not available to people joining now – the IPO is over and the stock trades publicly now. Future programs are – well, speculation on my part alone! Scheduling: Still a mess but with the new incentives I see a large improvement because of the diverging desires of the various pilots. Some will want money and others will want days off while still others will want the different types of trips. These availabilities are there and the different monetary rewards will weed out the competition between pilots. The biggest problem with scheduling is the company is constantly short of crews. Crew Bases: Currently OMSJ is the only base but the CEO has made numerous statements that they want bases in the Eastern Mediterranean Region (North Africa is my guess) and East of India (probably Kathmandu or Bangladesh.) The details are still some time away – my guess. Trips & Layovers: The trips vary but the average length is about 7 hours block with 9 hours duty. The credit is between 8-10.5 hours pay under the new scheme. Everything (except VCBI) is an out and back – no layovers. So you will spend every day (or night) at home. While sounding nice it is a double edge sword. While you definitely will be home every day or night, you will also fly the next day or night. Currently flying is about 17-18 days average, but as trip times are increasing that will have to drop. You may amass 80 hour of block time in 11 days but will have to fly another 6-8 days to gain the final 12-20 hours – and you will have to fly it. This should change by the New Year, but as of today that is the way it is. Second Officer Program: Yes, ABY has a 2nd officer program but it is quite stringent. Very difficult to get into and quite expensive once in. Pay = non existent, work = slave. Will fly for food is far too generous. However many have done so. Dispatchers and Cabin Crew are now flying the line as paid F/Os on the scale above and one former S/O is now simply waiting to amass flight time to upgrade. Technically challenging, for every flight is a check ride and you will have no life. But if you are up to it then go for it. Retirement: the pilot force is quite young and there is little incentive by them to request a retirement plan. As a result there is none per say. The stock IPO has given quite a few of the older pilots the opportunity to amass a large amount of shares (many have over a million shares) but other than the restricted grants, bonus grants and IPO strike price purchases; there is nothing else. Well other than the standard UAE severance pay of 2 weeks per year employment. Will it change? Probably as the pilot forces ages. Management: I labeled this topic “management” since several of you asked me “what is it like to work at Air Arabia.” I believe it is the management that sets the environment and in that respect it is quite good. Yes there are problems with scheduling and in the company’s ingenious way they have reduced that considerably. But from the CEO (who has a TRUE open door policy) to the Director of Operations the bosses are honest guys. They will give you an answer (you may not like the answer) but they will give you an honest one. The company is turning into a true Southwest Airlines of the USA. The incentive is to save money for the company and by doing so the pilot increases his personal pay. The variety of working environments will now depend on the pilot’s personal desires and those can change at the pilot’s bequest. The growth is phenomenal with corporate profits reporting new records every month. For long term prospects I suggest you read Deutche Bank’s recommendation to institutional investors: a current buy recommendation at 1.75. Moody and S&P's ratings are AAa & AA+. So you decide – yes I am personally bullish on both the stock and the operation. Dubai V. Sharjah: They are close neighbors and a large percentage of pilots live in Dubai. The boarder is less than 10 miles from SHJ airport and in many cases closer than downtown SHJ. Now the traffic – well there is enough stuff on the net to find out for yourself. I hope this answers the bulk of your questions. If I did not get to your direct question I apologize in advance. Re PM me and I will get to it when I can – you have the lead! Wild Weasel (Rumble 2) is Burners and Out! |
Hi Wild Weasel,
Thank you so much for providing us with this very well detailed information. I am really looking forward to flying with you guys ! Though you guys seem to fly a lot, the work atmosphere sounds nice, and you really get the money that goes with it ! ! ! Happy landings everybody. |
Air Arabia S/o
Can someone please give realistic info on how the life is like for a FRESH pilot working/training as a S/o at Air Arabia?
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Fresh Pilots ?
Dear Indonep:
I have no idea what you mean by “realistic info on how the life is like for a FRESH pilot working/training as a S/o at Air Arabia?” Air Arabia is NOT a flight school nor is it a training academy. It is a public corporation whose requirements are to increase shareholder wealth and not a government airline. Its main purpose is to fly people from point A to B safely and efficiently, always remembering to make a profit for shareholders. As a result it does not have ab-initio programs like Egypt Air, Air India, Cathy Pacific and Lufthansa etc. There is no training for a “FRESH” pilot. You will have to have all your licenses/ratings up to the ATP before you can apply for the S/O program. :ugh:
Unless you are an Emiratee Citizen (citizen of the UAE) you will be competing with other candidates trying to get into the program. Most of the outside candidates that get in already have an A-320 type rating or experience. In the early days the first candidates were from Europe and came complete with JAR licenses in their pocket. They then paid a lot of cash up front for a rating with ABY. That has changed! The large majority of S/O candidates that come into the program now are in-house employees. These are cabin crew, dispatchers etc. that have taken a leave of absence, traveled to the USA (the majority go there, but some do their training locally) and get their PPL, CPL, IR & MEL. Then they go buy their A-320 type rating somewhere: some in Miami, others in Jordan and others still in Cairo, but wherever they go they get the rating. :hmm:
Most have about 500+ hours and from now on the program is intense. They know the aircraft but before they fly they have hours in the FMGS trainer. Then they have hours more in the sim again. I am not certain but it is about 4-6 months after the start of the program before they fly their first flight. Every flight from now on is with an instructor (TRI/TRE) and the verbal drilling/examination is extensive. I believe they are required to amass 250 sectors and 500 hours minimum before they can be released for their PPC. I have flown with many of the graduates but they admit the program is very hard and time consuming. They have no life. Except for the UAE locals there is no pay while in the program and all expenses are on you. You are required to sign a 5 year working bond that does not start until you finish the program and you have no benefits including scheduling, sick leave, and vacation etc rights. You are not an employee and graduating is not a guarantee of even getting hired at ABY. You are lower than a worm in a ditch! Indonep, I see from your question you are concerned about quality of life as a S/O. Let me tell you, if that is even a slight concern you may want to consider another line of work. As the salesman said to the customer in the Ferrari showroom: “Sir, if you have to ask the price of the car you can not afford the car!” But not to worry, it appears the only S/Os getting into the program today are UAE citizens or Air Arabia employees. You have the lead! Rumble 2 is Burners and Out! |
Dear Sir,
I think i will rephrase my question since I have been slightly misunderstood here! 1) I have recently Graduated with an FAA CPL/IR/ME TT 230 hrs no type rating. 2) I am not a UAE National. 3) What would be an ideal preparation be like IF applying for the post on S/O, in other words what knowledge are we expected to have other that what we learnt during our training at Flight school. 4) I thank you for the info saying there will be no pay, etc.no job guarentee for S/Os who graduate in AA.I will have to plan my expenses & rethink before applying. 5) working conditions etc are least that matter to me, as a young graduate straight out from a flight school( working on the license conversion proces in Indis), getting a job is my main concern.With selling mobile phone SIM cards outside railway stations in India to becoming a cabin crew in a reputed middle eastern airline ,I just Cant wait to get a job and fly commercially!! :ok: |
Air Arabia
Aircraft & Acquisitions: the company currently has 10 A-320s 77K (170,000 lbs.) MGTOW. The plan is for a fleet of at least 34 aircraft. The exact type has not been released but it will be either 737s or 320s. Watch the news at the Dubai Air Show for an announcement – my guess. |
Aby @ Omsj
http://www.airarabia.com/careers.html
I'd wait until the announcement on whether they get 737s or not. |
Jobs for you in India
Indonep:
I do not mean to discourage you from following your dream; however, with only 230 hours there is a whole lot you will need to learn. That said every Captain flying today once had 230 hours. I am assuming you are an Indian National from the things you said (“learnt,” “railway stations in India,” “license conversion process in India,” etc.) As a result you have excellent avenues available to you; avenues others only dream about. There are tens of articles that explain the need for pilots in your home country. Your federal government has publicly chased airline CEOs for internal airline problems. Anyway, I have enclosed a few addresses for you from airlines desperate for pilots in your native India. *Kingfisher Airlines: http://www.flykingfisher.com/exp_crew.asp?id=30 While their trainees start on the ATR that is a good airplane for a new pilot. They Currently have 30 320s & ATR aircraft but have ordered 160+ aircraft including A-330s, 340s, 350s and 5 A-380s. Jet Airways: http://www.jetairways.com/MSIB21/Tem...ACHEHINT=Guest Currently they have 55 aircraft ranging from ATRs to B-777 & A-340s. They have 72 aircraft on order including 20 B-787s. Indigo Airlines: http://book.goindigo.in/skylights/cg...ghts.cgi#pilot They have 11 A-320s with 89 on order. *Air Deccan: http://www.flyairdeccan.net/Careers.htm They have 30 aircraft with 21 on order. *SpiceJet Airlines: http://www.spicejet.com/pilotprogram.asp or http://www.spicejet.com/careers.asp They have 11 737-800 with 14 on order. Seriously looking for pilots! *Indian Airlines: http://indian-airlines.nic.in/script...TP_wb_2007.htm They have 74 aircraft with 39 319/320 on order. *Air India: http://www.airindia.com/page.asp?pageid=9 They have 45 aircraft mainly B-747 & B-777 but have orders for 67 aircraft ranging from 737-800s to triple 7s and dreamliners. They have a dedicated cadet program. Air Sahara: http://www.airsahara.net/s2v1/AboutUs/careers.aspx?id=5 They have 27 aircraft with 4 on order. They also have a helicopter division with 4 helicopters. *Go Airlines: http://www.goair.in/co-pilot.asp They have 10 A-320 with 20 on order. *Paramount Airways: http://www.paramountairways.com/careers.html 5 aircraft with an order for 40 additional. * Indicates a dedicated cadet or second officer program. You will notice that while some of these airlines do not directly say they have a cadet or second officer program you will see phrases like: “For A-320 A minimum of 25 hrs on ME aircraft (of which 10 hrs could be on an approved ME simulator) is mandatory. Also Currency of ME Instrument Rating is necessary at the time of joining for A-320. For ATR Preference will be given to ME endorsement holders.” From Air Deccan. Guys, 25 hours ME is an inexperienced pilot or a 2nd Officer/Cadet Pilot! This is just a start but you will have a very easy time getting out of the train station and into a cockpit in your country. Burners & Out. |
Weasel,
Your recent posts have been one of the best Ive read so far on this forum, in terms of information quanitity and quality. You are very generous. If I could point out a few items (and ask a question or two): 1) I understand the S/O pay is approx.AED5000/month(?)(I know, not much) 2) The sectors that a zero-time S/O is required to fly is 125, I think 45 sectors if he comes to ABY with 'other' jet time and is fresh from Initial 320 training. 3) Is the F/O basic pay (<1000hrs) , 15000/mth or 13000/mth? 4) Any more TRIs/TREs inbound to ABY??? I have vested interest in these 'pieces' of info, as I am one of the in-house S/O hopefuls!! see you around! |
Hats off to you sir!
thank you for all the information, I know I visited the right forum for sure. Wish you blue skies, Sir. Indonep.:) |
Axialflow:
I did not mean to present bad information and to answer your question/statement on S/O pay I can not say. As I stated I am not management, nor am I a recruiter so all the information I present is only that which is publicly available to Air Arabia pilots. I also presented information about S/Os from those guys I flew with who came through the program and that presentation was a consensus. If the pay is now 5K a month for S/Os I say they deserve it. The sector time – well I said “I believe” and I was referring to zero time. I do know that each pilot is assessed on individual merits, but I verified your statement about 125 sectors and you are right to a degree. It is 125 minimum plus checks. I found out only 1 pilot did it in that time however. But your data is correct. The F/O pay IS 15,000 for less than 1, 000 hours plus housing (10,200) and transportation (1,000): for a basic of 26,200 basic. The 19,000 is for 2K+ One new TRI hired 1-2 months ago, but I don’t know the inbound pipeline. :confused: Hope to see you on the line and I’ll jerk gear for you. Burners and Out! |
Unrated pilot - still want the job
Hi Guys
First time on the forum. Need some Air Arabia info. I have 1600 TT. 400 Jet time on Citation III. 500 Multi Time. No A320 rating. Do i stand a chance to get into Air Arabia. If the airline pays for my rating i am prepared to pay pay them back in monthly installments for sign a bond. Any advice..... |
weasel...hahahaha, Ill be looking for that gear!!
Thanks for the confirmations. I do hope we get some more TRIs on line. How effective can line training be if you fly once a month! Well, im an optimist...things will def. improve as the mgmt. are a switched-on bunch. One last question on FO salaries...inlcuding the flying allowances, what does the FO salary top out at in a month (assuming an average mix of night and day flying). take it easy, ax. |
Answer to the TRI question. There are currently 16 TRIs/Es working like crazy.
Ax - well your statement is really hard to answer. You will fly 900 a year but the combination is up to you. Obviously, the more you fly in 1 month will give you a greater annual salary than stretching it out over 12 months. The progressive monthly salary so dictates. But here is a little you can use. A new F/O will make 26,200 a month basic (less than a 1,000 hours in type.) Assuming 75 hours a month credited block time you make another 3,500 plus perdiem. At ABY you will not spend this since all is out and back and you can figure 100 hours = 1,000. So a 75 hour month will give you 30,700. Now you have to determine how that 75 hours actually is gained. It could be as high as 70 hours actual block or as little as 50 hours block (night.) So while the credit is 75 the actual block will be determined on what you fly. If you fly more per month then it will obviously be more. Let's say you take 45 consecutive days annual leave and you fly the max the rest of the year. You will have 900 hours in 10.5 months. Assuming this is spread this evenly over 10 months (also a limiting factor) you will 90 hours a month block. If you mix this 40% night and 60% day the numbers come out like this. 36 hours night = 54 credit 54 day = 57.8 credit 111.8 pay for 90 hours block progressive pay is 500 for first 25 credit hours 1,000 for 2nd 25 credit hours 2,000 for 3rd 25 credit hours 5888 for last 36.8 credit hours Total 9388 AED + PD 1,100 Total 10,488 + basic = 26,200 36,688 (apx $10,000 US) for 10 months. Remaining months will be basic at 26,200 for annual total of 419,280 The combos can be higher or lower depending on how you fly. A quick example is fly the same 900 hours in 9 months (100 block per month.) Use the same mix 40/60% 40% = 40 hours = 60 credit hours 60% = 60 hours = 64.2 credit hours 124.2 hours 500 = 1st 25 1,000 = 2nd 25 2,000 = 3rd 25 7,872 = 49.2 hours Total = 12,472 + 1,300 PD = 13,772 or 39,972 for 9 months for annual total of 438,348 AED You can see how the differential can work. The combinations are endless and as I said before up to the pilot. Hope this helps. Burners and Out! |
Adding that to the basic (for a 2,000+ Captain) the monthly salary would be 68,000 Dhm per month. The same flying in day would be 55,000 Dhm.
W Weasel, this payment is allowance included or just basic salary plus flight time? Do new joiners get the stock "present" too? Seems to me that this kind of payment is much better than EY or EK, so why are some pilots leaving for that companies (as said in this forum)? Thank you for your participation here, you seem to be a very well informed guy regarding ABY. SF |
Serious Flyer:
I don’t want to make is sound like a rose garden. Yes the numbers are right but as I said the work is hard. There are no layovers (except CMB) and while you are home every day or night you also fly every day or night. 100 block hours is hard time and while the trips are high time you will work at ABY. As for the guys leaving – well there are second thoughts in the patch now. Notice the topic “Air Arabia - New Pay Rates.” These are new and the company is quite knowledgeable about the other jobs in the market. They simply had to become competitive and still keep the low cost model. They also knew about the difference in flying difficulties and without a night differential – well they had to do something and they did. Everyone has to realize that this is different flying from what you probably did before. You are not going to sit at the bar and have a few drinks before you fly again tomorrow. If you do it, it will be at your home. You are not going to chase a few pretty skirts overnight and do the “gear up ring off” bit. ABY is as close to an 8 to 5 job as you can probably get in the airline business. Some guys want that and I don’t blame them – bin there done that. They want the comradery of an overnight - dido. They want to see the sights of a strange, new town – gotta see it. But that will not happen at ABY. You will not fly an A-380 or Triple 7 here. You will not eat sushi in Tokyo or Pasta in Milan – ain’t goin’ to happen, never did never will! But if you are into your family and want to make some money – well it is competitive. As for EK & EY – they are a different beast. They are staunch and non-flexible. If that is your cup of tea it is fine – what they give you is what you get, little change. But if you want to deal with whatever you may ever need, then flexibility is what you want. Wife having a baby, no sweat! Need time off for the kid’s football game, done! Dad need to go to hospital in Italy – you got the time off; just make it up sometime else in your schedule. Sure that may mean you will have to cover for someone else and we all know who abuses it (so does management.) We take care of it fairly well, but still you may get stuck with something you do like because of that fact. All I can say is the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence; unfortunately it is also thicker. In the last couple years only 2 people left here for EK. Both had family working there and found a better deal as a result (dual housing allowance etc.) EY on the other hand has seen a great exodus. Mainly F/Os who saw the pay differential, work environment and equipment a great disparity – and it WAS. There are those folks that want to fly a wide body (an airplane is an airplane – show me the money.) There are those folks who want to run the streets – when I was younger and could; I did, so I know their desires. There are those that feel upgrade training will be different – I don’t believe it will anywhere in this part of the world. But whatever their personal desires, well they are personal and I have been lucky to hear many of the complaints first hand. Some of them I agree with and some not, but it does not matter what I fell for they are making the decision. Now is a great time in the industry and a guy/gal can choose like they could not for decades? I have not seen anything like this since the mid 70s but then again that was only a few years after LUV started. Those “poor” guys as still flying 73s:) The numbers I quoted are as stated. The 55K or 68K include allowance and flying in my example. A 2,000+ Captain will definitely make 55+ K for 100 on the new scale, no matter what he flies – heck you make 40,500 for sitting on your butt for the month. That will only happen at ABY in two situations. 1) You are on leave and 2) you are 900 hours and out of time; the rest you will fly. Hey guys ABY is not for everyone! One thing that is certain (at least now) you will not be invited into the Chief Pilot’s Office for “tea and biscuits” after a flight because you argued about a fuel load in Bombay like you would at EK. You won’t have to deal with the Gestapo at departure like you will at EY. You go, you fly and you leave – it is that simple. You have a problem, you’ll get a solution and the D.O. is a great guy who has the power to listen – he does. Sure you screw up; you’ll get your hand slapped. You screw up twice; you’ll get it slapped real hard. Do it again you’ll find yourself in the sim doing a check ride – you deserve it. Be an arrogant idiot – we all know them – well you’ll find few guys at your farewell party. It is not brain surgery. Go to work, fly your plane, do it safe, do it on time as best you can, don’t jerk off the other employees, don’t break anything, don’t hurt anyone and make money for the company – they will leave you alone and you will make a descent wage. Hope this helps, Burners and Out |
Serious Flyer:
The stock issues are gone. I have no idea if there will be additional grants. Only people on the property as of 1 Sept 07 got the grants. The bonus shares were for people on property as of March 07. I have no idea what the company will do in the future, but I am sure they do not want to dilute the shares I hope not! But bonus has been the best in the UAE the last 2 years. I have no idea what will happen but I am sure everyone is thinking in the 4 month range for 07. Of course it depends on profits but they have been making massive profits every month. Go for 4 |
weasel,
you answered my questions and then some! Thanx again. You guys now have a new route to fly... Bangalore. take care ax |
So what kind of accomodation does 10,000/12,000 dhm give you if you live in Dubai? Sounds a little low to me as we keep hearing the EK guys complaining about the cost of lodging in DXB? Is that cheaper to live in Sharjah?
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Hey W Weasel,
Thank you for all the information. AS I see it, ABY seems to be the UAE Ryanair, with much better payment. Regards, SF |
Hope this Helps
Eagle Jet:
You ask a very difficult question. What does 120-144K a year get you in the UAE for housing? I read your post a couple days ago and had to think about how to answer this. Here are my feelings and that is all they are spiced with some facts. There is so much information on the net – not pprune – but the net about housing costs in Dubai/UAE that I would be a poor source for that info. I can only tell you about what I know and have seen the last 5 years. What do you want? What do you need? These are the questions you are asking me to answer and frankly I have no idea. Are you married? Do you have a family? School age kids? High School, grammar school? Are you used to small homes or large homes? Do you need servants or service? What types of environment do you like – beach or desert? And the list can go on ad infinitum! Pilots bitch, other than fly an airplane that is what we do. We are pros at both. I can not comment on EK or EY pilot’s complaints and if you make your decision based upon that – well you are a bone head. But your question was basically what can I get? I can not tell you, nor can anyone else on this planet. I can tell you what I have and what can be had (if you make your decisions based upon your requirements and not other people.) I have a 560 sq meter (5,700 sq ft) villa - 5 bedrooms + office, 7 bathrooms, living room, dinning room (very large) and 2 kitchens etc. It has a separate servants building with 3 bedrooms (apx 10 sq meters each - large for the UAE), 2 bathrooms, storage room and the extra (2nd) kitchen – Arabic style. It is on a half acre lot with 3 car garage, huge enclosed driveway for 6 vehicles, grass, pool etc. 7 central zone air conditioners, 8 hot water heaters, 2 years old, a dirt area for my wife’s garden and enough lighting for a fairly good outside barbeque for 50+ folks during a wild night in February. Pretty nice place! To be honest the nicest place I ever lived in, during my lifetime. Now pass that around in the UAE. I pay 105K a year plus 5K for the government. Do the math. I make 144 and pay 110 which gives me 34K to blow on the old lady and kids. My data is fact and I will give more later. The point is simple. What do you want? I live in a family area where my 16 year old daughter can walk to the store at 10PM with impunity. My 14 year old son can ride his bike where his mom only worries about him breaking his neck on the sand dune around the block. I am minutes from work during rush hour and the local/neighborhood store still delivers milk at 6AM to my door. Where is that – well that I am not going to say but I know many of the guys in the company have been reading these posts and know very well who I am. They also know that what I say is fact without hyperbole. So once again EJ what do you want? Oh you want to live in Jumeriah 2 on the beach – ok then 150 sq meters cost 250K a year. You want to live on the golf course in Arabian Ranches – 300K a year is for you at 150 sq meters. A condo in Jebal Ali – better fork out 200K a year for a 1 bedroom overlooking the sand. The Meadows, Springs, Murdif – well you have the zip code and with that goes the price. Oh I forgot it is going to take you 1 hour to get to work in the afternoon during the rush hour. Guys ABY is in SHJ not DXB! You want to live in Diera or Jumeriah – well what do you want? Air Arabia does not care! That is not to say prices are not high in SHJ – they are, but what do you want? The Buhirah (sp). The cornice on the inland waterway - sure prices are high. It is up to you and it takes time. For those new to the sand pit it will take time. You don’t know the area and the biggest mistake most make is going where their friends/co-workers went before. The paper is full of info, not UPP or Emmar but real info – spend the time. Many locals want stuff without agents and make deals with a handshake and a nod. Yes it takes time to understand and find them but they are here. I have been here for 5 years and my rent has actually decreased the last 2 years. Now guys I don’t want to make it sound like I live in the sticks – not true. We have a major grocery store less than 4 Km away, and a little Indian store .5 Km away. My boys go to the Australian school about 6 km away and my daughter goes to the Dubai Academy for Girls 14km (my wife’s GPS.) Major parks (Discovery Land) is around the corner and off road land is less that 1 km away (if you are into that as we are.) You like the beach – well that is on the other side of town. I will say this. Bin there done that. We lived on beach road for 2 years and while nice – noisy, dangerous etc. rather drive and see it than live there now. You will hear about the Asian Subcontinent people living in the area – that is true. But you know what? I can care less whether it is a man from Pakistan or a man from Sidney that googles over the body of my 16 year old daughter and her friends – guys do that! So we buy family memberships in local clubs. We are members of Kimpenski’s and they have all the needs we want. The girls can wear their skimpy bikinis and lay on the beach all day long without pressure from perverts (pilots.) They can go bowling in the lanes while dad drinks a pint at the sports bar watching India beat Pakistan in football:) The point is these places exist and westerns use them. You don’t need the NAME of a place to enjoy your time – but then again –WHAT DO YOU WANT! Hope this give you an idea but if it doesn’t well, then it doesn’t help. Burners and Out |
weasel,
You need to write a book! Call it 'the idiots guide to Air Arabia', call it 'the idiots guide to spending your housing allowance wisely', call it ' the idiots guide to answering impossible questions'!!! JUST WRITE...you'll do well. Ill buy a copy! Your posts are tutorial in nature. Ax |
W Weasel,
I take my hats off to you for making the effort to give all these information about AA. I did my best too in the past to encourage others to come and work for this great company. Everything you said is really spot on, and I admire you for your honesty and unselfish devotion to give out as much information about Air Arabia and help others get in. To those reading W Weasels posts, I can personally attest to the veracity and truthfulness of everything he said. He brought me to his huge villa once and offered me bacon and egg for breakfast while waiting for the fog to clear up before our flight. W Weasel is one of the best guys I have flown with in AA and all you new joiners should look forward to fly with him and hope for a thick fog in the early morning so you can have breakfast in his house too! Before I go on, I just want to say that I am not writing this post in response to W Weasel's previous post about AA and to make any comparisons between AA and my present company. Both are actually good, and any inference that may be derived from reading this would actually depend on how each one of us view life in general. To be honest, I miss AA and I miss all the nice people there. It was really good while it lasted. But while I admit that I had a really great time when I was there, nevertheless I must also say that I am happier where I am now. I am living in a villa too, not too huge, but nice. It's 4 BR (incl maid's rm) with 4 toilet and bath, 2 car garage, a front yard, a porch and a barbecue area at the back. I have my own space as office too where I put all my medals, certificates/placques/commendations, old pics and all my other war booties (haha). My wife has a small garden with some plants and flowers where my two kids, 9 yo boy and 6 yo girl take turns in watering them. Im living in a compound of six villas and I have very nice neighbors. All the kids in the neighborhood play with each other while the parents enjoy a bottle or two of beer and wine. My kids' school is just 12 min drive from where I live and the airport (where I go to work!) is just as close to home. I fly an average of 85 hrs/mo, 3 times to europe/mo, and the rest up and down the gulf area and India. On my days off (which is a minimum of 9 days/mo) and while the kids are in school, me and the missus go to a family country club close to home - either to work out, play tennis or just laze around in the jacuzzi. The kids, on their free time, get to enjoy the big pool as well. But most importantly, in my new company and with unlimited ID90 tickets, now we have the opportunity to go back to our home country anytime we want. I must say that I had a good life when I was with AA. Money was good, and I have nothing but only the deepest gratitude to the company for giving me the chance to work with such magnificent people. From the CEO down to the smallest mammal in the company, everybody treated everybody with respect. But a year onwards I found out that there was something missing in my life. Most of the pilots working in AA are expats, and I didn't have any problems working with them. But most of them too come from neighboring middle east countries and India so it's like they never left home at all and other than the hard work they all seemed to be happy. My case, however, was different. I came from an island country (small but beautiful) which is almost 9 hrs flight away in SE Asia. My kids are still young and when we came to the UAE we lived in a place where they didn't have anybody to play with. After school they go straight home and do nothing but watch TV (if there was anything worth watching), play computer, wait for dinner and then sleep. It's like they were living in a huge box with no windows. While most of the time I was home after each flight, I hardly had time to play with my kids as I was just too tired. After a gruelling night shift I would sleep the whole day and wake up just to do another flight again in the evening. Of course this didn't happen everyday. But more or less this somewhat became an almost daily routine and the missus started to complain about boredom and homesickness. I tried to make some diversions, bring the kids to the mall as often as I could, watch movies and let the missus do some shopping. Somehow this proved to be a welcome respite and a temporary avenue to escape away from the humdrums of everyday life. And yet the longing and yearning of going back home and reconnecting to our grassroots and the desire to regain the simple, but happy life that we left behind was just irreplaceable. When I decided to leave my home country to work as an expat it was because I wanted nothing but the best for my family. But I came to the realization that money cannot buy all the happiness in this world. I was, above all things, concerned about the happiness and welfare of my children. And for the first time of their young lives, my kids celebrated their birthdays away from home with nobody but just me and my wife. It's very easy to please children, just buy them toys and cake and they will be happy, well, at least for the moment no matter how fleeting it may seem. The next day you bring them to the mall again for some kiddie rides, and the next, and the next... But where is real happiness in that? No other kid to sing them happy birthday, no other kid to chase around with, no other kid to tell those silly secrets little boys and girls tell to each other. In silence I started to weep. I tried to search deeper, but found - emptiness. The agonizing pain of seeing my kids grow up this way was completely unbearable. And so after a careful thought I decided to make a move. Some people thought that I was moving to the other side of the fence because of bigger pay or bigger airplane and better career prospects. And so they said go for it. And perhaps some may have even thought that I made a mistake for leaving the company since things started to get better after I left. But surprisingly, nobody actually thought that my real motivation for leaving was my family. People can say this or that, but would they actually care if my family is unhappy? Well I didn't think so. Money may provide us with all the comfort and things that we desire but it cannot buy real happiness. Having a good career and the best job in the world does not make you a whole person either. But relationships, friendships - both new and old ones, and family definitely can give you a profound sense of contentment and an incomparable feeling of joy and happiness. Do I have any regrets coming to work for AA? No I don't have. I left AA only because I care so much about my family. My whole point is it didn’t make sense to me anymore if I made good money and yet I could see that my kids were slowly being deprived of a normal childhood. Maybe it just didn’t work out well with me, and maybe it would just work out fine with others. And so to those wanting to work abroad and leave your comfort zones behind, think hard about it and just decide what is best for you - and your family. Like what W Weasel said - WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANT? WHAT DO YOU NEED? We all make our choices. But remember that when we make these choices, we also have to make some sacrifices. I did mine. To those who have sent me PMs but never got the chance to reply right away, please accept my apologies. But just the same, I wish you all the best of luck. In ending, I am most certain that many of my ex comrades in AA reading this (my last post) probably know who I really am now. As a true fighter jock coming home from his last flight, all I can say is THANK YOU for the wonderful times. THANK YOU for the good flights, but most of all THANK YOU for all the memories. P.S. Just a few days ago, my son came home with some small knee bruises after playing football with the other boys in the hood. Her mother of course was bit concerned and gave my little boy some bit of scolding, but I just pretended to ignore her. Later at bedtime I told my wife that this is how boys grow up to become real men. Let them feel pain so they will grow strong, let them fall down so they will learn how to get up. And my little girl? Well, I have no other way of telling how happy she is playing with the bunch of other girls in the neighborhood. The desert sands are a-plenty for them to make sand castles and play make believe stories of dungeons and dragons. They play hide and seek, running from one house to another. They come to watch in our living room endless movies of Bratz and Barbie and Barney. Their giggles and shrieks are music to my ears. Black hair or blonde hair, white skin or brown skin, for these young and innocent children friendship knows no colors, love knows no boundaries, and happiness, a universal thing. Since my children came into this world, it has become some kind of a ritual for me to kiss and touch their faces before I go for flight. And no matter which time of the day I come home I always do the same. I derive strength and inspiration from them. While they sleep I watch over them. Do I feel their happiness now? I most certainly do. Is this life worth all the sacrifices I’ve done for them? I believe it is. After all, my life is my FAMILY, and my family is my LIFE... Goodbye and blue skies to you all! :ok: |
Cameltoe 2006
Man ,this was indeed heart moving; I almost cried reading your honest and sincere post. This may take us way off the topic but this is what life is all about, about true happiness, about the love and affection and warmth you have for your family. I must thank you once again for giving us all such a nice post to read. May God bless you and your family for times to come. Aamen |
'Day Off Flying Rate'
WW
Was wondering if you had any insight on the 'Day Off Flying Rate' At Aed280 per day, it seems a little lacking on the incentive side of things? Take a base salary of Aed 21,000 and divide by 30, that would give you a daily rate of Aed700. Any ideas on how/why they came to this figure of 280? Global |
Global707:
Have no idea how they came up with the rate but they did it about 2 years ago and it hasn’t changed. A little low may be an argument but you must remember you still get the flying rate. Obviously, day off flying usually comes at the end of the month or during holidays. It is really a non occurrence now but it seems to be about a 19% premium over the highest hourly rate. What I mean is standby/reserve coverage usually takes care of the needed flying. If a guy has to have a particular day off (and he knows coverage is tight) he will usually take care of the flying himself by working something out with his fellow pilots. I have flown tons of trips for guys that “had to have the day off” and in that case it is not "day off" flying. Sometimes you simply swap trips. “I’ll do your KTM on the 20th if you do my CMB tomorrow?” We take care of it ourselves. Sometimes it is necessary but ABY really does not like to pay for day off flying and keeps it to a minimum. During spurts, like we will go through with the new cities coming and the new airplanes will cause this disruption. That usually goes away in a month or two now that the company has finally realized that they continually need to hire pilots for these next 24 airplanes. But if you do need it and you are over 75 hours you are in the better bracket. Say you have an 8 hour Almaty trip (pay 9 hours.) You will get 2,160 for the trip plus 280 for the day off and per diem (apx 11 hours or 110.) This trip will pay you 2,250 which is not too bad. Remember when you get into the upper level we have the highest per hour rate in the region for pay, so I rarely hear guys complaining about this. Make this trip a night Trivandrum (VOTV) and the same 8 hours pays 13.5 plus or 3,240 + 280 + 110 = 3,630 for one trip. Burners and Out |
Think before you Leap
Hey Cameltoe2006, how are you? I am glad things are working out well for you. Have heard from others you are quite happy. But with your friendly personality and positive attitude I am sure you would be happy flying anything. Not that fighter pilots should ever fly anything that does not have Martin Baker stamped on the seat
Thanks for the nice words but we need to get a San Miguel soon. You know that low level light is own _ECAM action. Stop work, drink beer. Clear ECAM. Guys and Gals, I said it before and I will stand by that. ABY is not for everyone and some of the reasons have been explained very well by others. But I do disagree with one thing C-toe said “I came from an island country (small but beautiful) which is almost 9 hrs flight away in SE Asia.” Of course I do not disagree with your beautiful homeland but the part, “…most of them [pilots] too come from neighboring Middle East countries and India [we don’t have Indian pilots if you don’t count Saleem who flew for United Airlines in the States but 4 Pakistanis] so it's like they never left home at all.” Emphases added by me. I don’t fully agree with this statement. In the early days the vast majority of non-management pilots came from North America and Europe. The CP (Glen Burns) was a Canadian and 50% or more of the line guys were North Americans or Europeans. Granted that was in the early days but it did not change all that much. Yes some of the Arabian guys live quite close. It is easy for an Omani or a Bahraini to go home with 1 day off. It is equally easy for an Egyptian, Syrian, Jordanian, to go home, but that is not the norm even today. As a matter of fact just this month one of the Egyptian Captain left because “he missed home.” There is a large contingent of Columbian pilots in the company with Brazilians gaining fast. A couple Columbians have left to go elsewhere while a couple guys have left other companies to come to ABY. Most North Americans consist of Canadians with 2 USA and 1 Mexican as well. Most European countries are represented from Sweden, Denmark, Holland and Belgium. The Germans are short (the only one we had, left a couple years ago) but the Swiss have taken up the slack with now 3 Swiss on property. There is an ever growing French population as well as several Italian pilots that abound in the cockpits. Spanish from Spain and Portuguese from Portugal are able to converse in their native tong with Mexicans in Spanish and Brazilians in Portuguese. The ever present Brit and Irish still exist along with a large group of North Africans from Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco. The Russians are coming! An ever increasing number of pilots are coming from the former Soviet Union stretching from Armenia to Ukraine over to Eastern Russia. A Bulgarian, a Turk and a Check are also new to the cockpit. What is missing is the Asian group of pilots. Cameltoe is quite right with respect to some pilots having the ability to go home easily, however, your 9 hours to get home is only half the time for some of us. Those guys going to South America or Western USA and Canada, spend 13 hours getting to the East Coast and another 7-8 hours to get home after a plane change. Several of our pilots have to make 3+ aircraft changes just to get home. As a matter of fact I would say 9 hours commuting to home is less time than needed by over 20% of our pilots (I know it is less than 50% of the time needed for me:) Even the guys going to North Africa; Tunisia, Morocco etc have nearly the same time as going to the PI. I did not write this to directly argue with Cameltoe for what he says is mainly right with respect to the pilots. However, I noticed something else in his writing. I do know him and have flown with him and his abilities are above reproach, but there was something in the writing that bothered me. I understood when I saw his personal writings about family. In all the cases I wrote about above there is professional camaraderie throughout the company. Portuguese and Brazilians, Armenians and Ukrainians, Mexicans and Spanish, USA Americans and Canadians, Danes and Swedes, French Tunisians and French, Swiss and Italians, etc. all had someone to associate with – well there are the Irish:) They have the ability to talk in their native language, share different yet similar culture and the proverbial war stories. Those from the same country have even more commonality, but if you are a lone wolf then there is probably some country in the company that is represented and your culture will be close. That is what happened to Cameltoe with the under representation of Asia in the company. Of course the company is full of people from his native land and his fellows are well represented in the UAE but pilots, we are a different breed. How many of you, in your native land, had a personal relationship between families with a maid, or a bartender? How many times did the gardener in your home town go out to dinner with your family? For that matter how many computer programmers, medical analysts, engineers and lawyers did you have a social connection with in your homeland? Probably not too many and that creates problems here if pilots from your location do not exist in the community. I am not so arrogant as to say why Cameltoe left. We talked about it and I believe he made a good decision. But I am sure that was one factor, not to mention the 9 hours in coach It is something every pilot needs to consider when coming to the sand pit, not just ABY. Yet I will say this with respect to family. Of course I come from a different culture and we have different concepts of familiar responsibilities. Families are resilient and in my case coming to the sand pit was a family choice. Everyone had a say and everyone has their responsibilities today. Toys, game boys, dolls, malls, skiing, beach, dreamland and Wild Wadi, are toys for families. My 7, 9 & 14 year old boys each have their own separate large bedroom with their own bathroom. Every night they try to sleep together in one bed. Even when we make them sleep apart they get up in the night and crawl into their brother’s (or when she let’s them their sister’s) room. We have had times when 4 kids are sleeping in one double bed for absolutely NO reason. Why? That is what kids do. It is not about the stuff but what we, as family, make it. Do you remember your campouts? You huddled together in a sleeping bag in a tent pitched in the back yard; getting as close to each other as you could on a sticky summer night. Well our flying schedule has nothing to do with that. Of course I wish I were not so tired as to be able to do more after a trip. One of the most difficult things about ABY, if you worked for a legacy airline in the past, is that your family has a set of expectations. Dad comes home after a trip (1,2,3,4 or 5 days doesn’t matter.) When Dad comes home you leave him alone for 24 hours. Then you do things as a family for a few days until Dad leaves again. At ABY your family may still think this way and as Cameltoe stated you only sleep to go to work again.:( But there is a difference. You will run out of flying time doing this. I am in my 4th year at ABY and for the last 3 years I have had at least 4 consecutive weeks off (not including leave) due to 900 hours. In 2005 I did not even take leave because there was no need too. I was off from early July to mid September – uninterrupted due to 900 hours. In 06 it was July – August. In 07 it was 3 weeks in July and I have had 1 trip since the 10th of October – done for the month. “People can say this or that, but would they actually care if my family is unhappy? Well I didn't think so.” I will go one step further and say I know so. It is always up to you to provide whatever your family needs first and desires second. I do not believe any one of us could do our job knowing our family was in need or want of something, and for that I applaud your decision. I simply disagree with what they need and truly want. Of course I have had the problems with my wife for years. When we got married she left her country and flew half way around the world to a strange new land with strange customs and people. Today she understands those people and has no problem living in that country. When she came to the UAE (after many years in that first new country) it became an extension of the first chore and was easily solved by her. It is our job to educate our families, provide them with all the information, make sure they have the needs and force them to evaluate their true wants. Otherwise, in the case of non-pilot wives, unless they are living with their mom and dad, they will never understand their true wants. Anyway I did not want to make this a philosophy lesson but I did want to stress the differences in context for what Cameltoe2006 stated. Some people have different levels of coping and each of us has to examine that for ourselves. Just think of this, some of the guys flying here have left their families in their home country – now that is a hard decision in my book, but it works for them.:confused: Burners and Out |
'...if you don’t count Saleem who flew for United Airlines in the States but 4 Pakistanis...'
Saleem, I believe, flew jets for the IAF (indian AF) before United. Now, he has left back to India. Is it true that a large number of the canadian group are leaving back home due to call-backs? Ax |
Canucks leaving
Yo Ax,
Most of the initial group of canucks is on the way home or already gone. (a few went to EK) This is mostly because people just prefer to live at home even if it means less cash, and Air Canada is calling us back and seems to be doing ok. But I'm sure if AC goes for a dive they would not hessitate to come back. Just a quick comment on what others have posted about ABY: Yes it's not like other places in the ME. Friendly atmosphere and the money is good ( even better now that I left), but it is hard work. I was in training and 8 days off a month was the best you could hope for. Obviously this is not great for family life. Saying it is like a 9 to 5 job is misleading, it is much worse since your working hours are not fixed; one day a morning flight, next day a night flight, a rest day to let your body figure out why you feel like a truck ran over you, and then another 6 am report for Almaty. Then a sim from 2100-0100 plus a debriefing... etc, etc. I think line flying may a bit better now, but for a long time it was the same, and every time a new airplane shows up, there is a crew shortage (unless 1 plane goes AOG). They say the rostering issue is getting fixed; new (self-made) software and more crews per airplane. But I would be sceptical of that, it's been an on going problem from day 1. Other than that its a really great place to work. But that's it, you will work a lot, play only a little. |
[ Pharaoh, actually the answer is almost 3 days old. Pretty slow for PPrune:-)]
I Wild Weasel, I meant too fast to take this package for granted "yet 2 monthes to go", & you know well things spins fast enough in AA like the SENIORITY scheme :ugh:in case you've forgotten. Time is what prevents everything from happening at once. |
Hi cameltoe!
Very nice piece indeed! I don't know the goings-on in Air Arabia is but I do understand you. I feel your pain. I happened to work in a place halfway across the globe from where I live, away from my family for two years, and only then did I understand what the word "homesick" meant. It's good to know you're happy where you are now. Is it still in the UAE? And judging from some previous posts, i think we originally came from the same place... Hope I could be in a similar company as you are now so that I could be in the same state (of happiness) as you are! All the best 'dre! |
At long last the LCC is the topic now!
Greetings boys & girls,
very interesting to read all your posts! its about time you all promoted the so called low cost operator in the UAE. now at least people will learn more about the pros & cons. good job regards INV |
Hey Straight In:
You are right “most of the Canuks are going [home.]” However most of them “no ALL of them” could have gone nearly a year ago! They choose to stay for various reasons. Some for tax purposes in Canada, but most of them to honor their commitment. They are great guys and honorable men and all except one choose to upgrade to Captain. They had a commitment to the company and chose to honor that commitment – I respect that. Some guys chose to go over a year ago when AC called them back and they knew it. They did not check out and by now have been a Captain in AC for nearly a year. Others are going back in pretty good seniority at AC. The bottom line is ABY knew they were going back years ago and they have no problem with that (unlike other companies in the Emirates.) The flying is hard but 8 days off a month is not reality now. Yes Straight In the training group had work like no one could imagine. You guys worked your tails off and no one can argue with that. However, that was a choice! Training also got to take that great DAM day flight “for training” from the line guy that got it once a month. The hassles were definitely there but there were also rewards (if you consider anything in training a reward.) You did hit it on the head with crew shortages when planes come on line. You also are exact with the scheduling – NOT! However, ABY’s average trip (2 sectors) is 7 hours – do the math. With the new schedule that will equate to 7.7 hours per or 13 a month. Now we all know that when you get near you will do the BAH, MCT etc shuffle, but there are not enough of them for all the pilots. Simply look at the new company magazine that is in the seat pockets “ NAWRAS.” Cover “Classical Kiev.” Kiev is a 10 hour out and back. All the Banga-Manga-and everyone else alore, is also 8 hours. It can’t happen! SI I remember the 8 days off a month, but I also remember when a 727 was an advanced airplane – history. PHAROH I know what you are saying but I have asked MA & AA about certain things which I have not mentioned. I know the “feeling” and what “we are trying to do” so I have not mentioned them here. You know, holding, diversion etc; but that is “what we are trying to do.” Yes you and I know very well about Seniority – I think I got screwed on that one:) We also know about the schedule, but also, ancient history. I honestly believe things are changing too fast for even those concepts to continue yet you know me and I will not stop – I can’t for everyone. Folks, the schedule has been written about on this forum ad-infinitum. It has changed from what it was 3+ years ago but it is still crappy. Now for my North American friends, we all know, nothing in this part of the world will ever be like what we were use to as far as schedule or seniority. Having said that, the other boys on the block don’t have much better when you consider our flexibility. Try some of the things we do daily at EK or EY – never will happen! Will the package be paid as presented “yet 2 months to go?” This management is not stupid and they would not publish something they would not do. That to me is like saying, you flew 100 this month, but we are not going to pay you what the rate is. I honestly believe the reason this was published early was to entice you Canuks to stay. You guys are Captains now and have a lot to offer. While the work is different, they MAY feel the pay and taxes will keep you. Pure speculation on my part but maybe there is a bone head in Canada after all:ugh: Burners and Out |
SENIORITY scheme
(you know well things spins fast enough in AA like the SENIORITY scheme in case you've forgotten)
Pharaoh, what do you mean by that, what happened to the seniority????:confused: |
320 star ,
If you are one of the old guy's ,you'll know what am i talking about. I used seniority scheme as an example specially for W W to show my point of view. But if you're not a cave man like WW ,that the new pay pakage is still GENERIC . |
No they wouldn't!
|
Totally confused
Pharaoh,
Still don’t understand what do you mean by that, because I thought seniority was sorted,:\ now I am even more confused, what does GENERIC means in the new pay???:confused: |
Just viewed the new ABY Capt and FO salary/benefits package on the website, for the coming year...not too shabby!
Ax |
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