380 pay

[Wizofoz]

Originally Posted by nimrodjoe

where’s that written clever bollocks ? I thought it was a sign of masculine insecurities.

You thought wrong. You seem to do a lot of that.

7110.677 Procedures for A380-800 and An225 Aircraft_2014 (faa.gov)

c. The word “SUPER” must be used immediately after the aircraft call sign as follows: (1) TERMINAL. In all communications with or about A388 or An225 aircraft. (2) EN ROUTE. (a) In communications with a terminal facility about A388 or An225 operations. (b) In communications with or about A388 or An225 aircraft with regard to an airport where the en route center is providing approach control service. (c) When issuing traffic advisories regarding an A388 or An225 aircraft.

[nimrodjoe]

FAA

That doesn’t say..what you said it says.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Originally Posted by nimrodjoe

That doesn’t say..what you said it says.

on page 2 section para. (5) sub c it does

[nimrodjoe]

Last time I checked it this werent the US forum.

Initial contact.

[A321drvr]

The ICAO wake turbulence category (WTC) is entered in the appropriate single character wake turbulence category indicator in Item 9 of the ICAO model flight plan form and is based on the maximum certificated take-off mass, as follows:

J (Super) aircraft types specified as such in Doc 8643 (Aircraft type designators). At present, the only such type is the Airbus A380-800 with a maximum take-off mass in the order of 560 000 kg.

[VThokie2]

Originally Posted by A321drvr

The ICAO wake turbulence category (WTC) is entered in the appropriate single character wake turbulence category indicator in Item 9 of the ICAO model flight plan form and is based on the maximum certificated take-off mass, as follows:

J (Super) aircraft types specified as such in Doc 8643 (Aircraft type designators). At present, the only such type is the Airbus A380-800 with a maximum take-off mass in the order of 560 000 kg.

We all know what a “Super” is. That is not the issue being discussed.

[VThokie2]

Originally Posted by flyTheBigFatLady

on page 2 section para. (5) sub c it does

If you are sitting fat dumb and happy en route overflying with hours left to go….no it doesn’t. With the exception of traffic advisories it only applies for aircraft using that enroute facility for terminal operations essentially. That’s the way that section reads if you don’t approach it with a confirmation bias. Regardless this is an FAA document.

[FQT2YS]

Let me fetch my popcorn… You guys are hilarious!

And yes I do have the exquisite experience of having worked for EK - luckily I pulled the plugged before getting to the stage your are in!

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Originally Posted by VThokie2

If you are sitting fat dumb and happy en route overflying with hours left to go….no it doesn’t. With the exception of traffic advisories it only applies for aircraft using that enroute facility for terminal operations essentially. That’s the way that section reads if you don’t approach it with a confirmation bias. Regardless this is an FAA document.

What’s about this one ?


According to the Standardised European Rules of the Air (SERA), section 14 Voice Communication Procedures, SERA.14090 Special communication procedures, paragraph (c):

Indication of heavy wake turbulence category

1. For aircraft in the heavy wake turbulence category, the word ‘Heavy’ shall be included immediately after the aircraft call sign in the initial radiotelephony contact between such aircraft and ATS units.
2. For specific aircraft in the heavy wake turbulence category, as identified by the competent authority, the word ‘Super’ shall be included immediately after the aircraft call sign in the initial radiotelephony contact between such aircraft and ATS units.

[VThokie2]

Originally Posted by flyTheBigFatLady

What’s about this one ?


According to the Standardised European Rules of the Air (SERA), section 14 Voice Communication Procedures, SERA.14090 Special communication procedures, paragraph (c):

Indication of heavy wake turbulence category

1. For aircraft in the heavy wake turbulence category, the word ‘Heavy’ shall be included immediately after the aircraft call sign in the initial radiotelephony contact between such aircraft and ATS units.
2. For specific aircraft in the heavy wake turbulence category, as identified by the competent authority, the word ‘Super’ shall be included immediately after the aircraft call sign in the initial radiotelephony contact between such aircraft and ATS units.

Yes… on INITIAL contact. Not with every subsequent radio transmission through that airspace.

[Youwish]

Originally Posted by VThokie2

Yes… on INITIAL contact. Not with every subsequent radio transmission through that airspace.

In the USA it is mandatory on ALL transmissions. Like the suffix HEAVY.

[VThokie2]

Originally Posted by Youwish

In the USA it is mandatory on ALL transmissions. Like the suffix HEAVY.

As always local rules will be listed in the AIP/CRARs for the country in question. What is mandated in the USA has nothing to do with what is mandated over the rest of the world under a non US operating certificate.

[nimrodjoe]

I thought maybe somebody had told them to keep calling themselves super all day, repeatedly to the same controller on every transmission everywhere.

If the callsign was instead “tiny” and the requirements the same, we’d hear it less.

Speedbird supers seem to do it properly.

[Airmann]

As a general rule I believe that even ICAO mandates that when checking into an FIR for the first time (for a given flight) wake category (and squak code in fact) must be specified if heavy or super. If the controller subsequently does not append the wake category in his transmissions you are then free to drop it as well.

Most pilots send to seriously overlook communications. In fact it simply isn't emphasized as a critical skill any more, and most have they attitude that it isn't that important as long as the message gets through. However, I have personally seen numerous potentially hazardous situations develop due to poor communication.. I was one that didn't really care early on in my career, but am now pulling my hair out at the lack of professionalism on the radio in many parts of the world. Should seriously be looked into.

And no I'm neither English nor Australian.

[VThokie2]

Originally Posted by Airmann

As a general rule I believe that even ICAO mandates that when checking into an FIR for the first time (for a given flight) wake category (and squak code in fact) must be specified if heavy or super. If the controller subsequently does not append the wake category in his transmissions you are then free to drop it as well.

Most pilots send to seriously overlook communications. In fact it simply isn't emphasized as a critical skill any more, and most have they attitude that it isn't that important as long as the message gets through. However, I have personally seen numerous potentially hazardous situations develop due to poor communication.. I was one that didn't really care early on in my career, but am now pulling my hair out at the lack of professionalism on the radio in many parts of the world. Should seriously be looked into.

And no I'm neither English nor Australian.

Correct on all counts.

The Reference is ICAO Doc 4444 4.9.2. Of course recognizing specific country deviations (as mentioned above but are exceptions not the norm) which of course will be highlighted in your publications and should be applied when operating in those airspaces.

[Potatos_69]

Originally Posted by nimrodjoe

Speedbird supers seem to do it properly.

Probably because Heathrow controllers remind them it only needs to be said once and pointedly ignore them sometimes when they continuously use super every time. 😅

[krismiler]

Cebu Pacific cram in 436 pax on their A330 neo aircraft, which isn’t too far off the least dense EK A380 configuration and is more than Korean Air which seat 407.

[WrldWide]

Originally Posted by Youwish

In the USA it is mandatory on ALL transmissions. Like the suffix HEAVY.

Not correct. This is not applicable to enroute ATCC. Heavy and Super are used in the terminal environment.So basically below FL180.

[nimrodjoe]

Are emirates trainers telling 380 pilots to use it as their callsign from push to chocks? seems odd, no other 380 operator is doing this? RT is very poor in general

[Youwish]

This thread should change the title to “ short d.ck sindrome” , what was the initial point?